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Message
re: crowton's going nowhere
Posted on 12/2/09 at 10:54 pm to LSUtigahs28
Posted on 12/2/09 at 10:54 pm to LSUtigahs28
quote:
So you honestly don't think Crowton has coached this offense down?
I think Crowton doesn't have control of the pieces of the offense that make everything run smoothly. For that reason, he is dependent on good assistants more than he should be. And, that's why I think he should be gone.
I don't think that playcalling was the majority of the problem. I think much of the bad playcalling was due to the deficiency on the OL.
So, my point is that if the OP is correct and Crowton is retained, but LSU somehow fixes the OL problem (replace Studrawa, influx of talent, etc), we are going to have a lot more success than many think we will.
4
Posted on 12/2/09 at 10:55 pm to moneyg
quote:
But, to think that the majority of our problems are because of play calling is foolish IMO.
So what do you think the main problems are with the offense?
You think the OL is that bad? Is it talent or is it coaching?
I think the play calling hurts the OL...and JJ holding on to the ball doesn't help the OL look any better..
Posted on 12/2/09 at 10:55 pm to moneyg
We broke more than 31 points scored by our offense once this year. ONCE and it was against Tulane.
Our offense scored over 30 three times all season.
The only three times were Auburn, ULL and Tulane.
We got 31 against UW, but 7 from a Pick 6 = 24.
We got 33 against Arky, but 7 from a punt return = 26 but 3 came in overtime = 23 points against a team defense ranked in the upper 90's.
We got 30 against MSU but 13 off an INT and punt return, so actually 17.
Wow. What an offense!
Our offense scored over 30 three times all season.
The only three times were Auburn, ULL and Tulane.
We got 31 against UW, but 7 from a Pick 6 = 24.
We got 33 against Arky, but 7 from a punt return = 26 but 3 came in overtime = 23 points against a team defense ranked in the upper 90's.
We got 30 against MSU but 13 off an INT and punt return, so actually 17.
Wow. What an offense!
This post was edited on 12/2/09 at 11:13 pm
Posted on 12/2/09 at 10:56 pm to moneyg
quote:
So, my point is that if the OP is correct and Crowton is retained, but LSU somehow fixes the OL problem (replace Studrawa, influx of talent, etc), we are going to have a lot more success than many think we will.
We also lose our top 2 RBs, our best WR, our TE, the best player on our already pitiful OLine. Yeah color me not so sure.
Posted on 12/2/09 at 10:58 pm to LSUtigahs28
quote:Then we ask our green QB to drop back 7 steps on 4th and one and keep running short side options...but lets give this clown another year.
A number of team with equivalent talent on the OL put up more points on teams like UF, why couldn't we?
Posted on 12/2/09 at 11:01 pm to ApexTiger
quote:
So what do you think the main problems are with the offense?
OL obviously. I've stated it about 10 times in this thread.
quote:
You think the OL is that bad? Is it talent or is it coaching?
I think it is both. I think both guard positions and the C are undertalented. And, I think that could be the major factor in why we couldn't run the ball.
But, with a smaller, more agile OL, we should have been able to protect the passer. We were ridiculously poor in that area. That is coaching, IMO.
quote:
I think the play calling hurts the OL...and JJ holding on to the ball doesn't help the OL look any better..
The large majority of the time, it's the OL causing the breakdowns on the play. Certainly JJ has held on to the ball too long at times. Also, his drops were too deep at times.
But, the majority of the problem was an offensive line that was well below average in the running and passing game. Consistent pressure on a QB destroys a QB.
Posted on 12/2/09 at 11:02 pm to LSUMafia
quote:
We broke more than 31 points scored by our offense once this year. ONCE and it was against Tulane.
Our offense scored over 30 three times all season.
The only two times were Auburn and Tulane.
We got 31 against UW, but 7 from a Pick 6 = 24.
We got 33 against Arky, but 7 from a punt return = 26 but 3 came in overtime = 23 points against a team defense ranked in the upper 90's.
We got 30 against MSU but 13 off an INT and punt return, so actually 17.
Wow. What an offense!
LOL. Where in the world did you get the idea that I believe that our offense did not suck?
Posted on 12/2/09 at 11:03 pm to moneyg
For two years, Crowton has put unnecessary pressure on 2 inexperienced QB's in the most bizarre of circumstances.
You admit to poor line play in both pass protection and the run. It is my opinion that Drew Brees would have a hard time in five wide deep in his own territory on 3rd and 15 are greater, yet Crowton has done this to our QBs no less than six times in 2 seasons, all with negative results.
There is no doubt in my mind that our coordination, including play-calling, have hindered this team's reaching of their potential. There has been no improvement during the course of the season in this regard. We are outgained and out-possessed in every game. We were much more productive when there was less time to make decisions, and the normal flow of the game took over.
You admit to poor line play in both pass protection and the run. It is my opinion that Drew Brees would have a hard time in five wide deep in his own territory on 3rd and 15 are greater, yet Crowton has done this to our QBs no less than six times in 2 seasons, all with negative results.
There is no doubt in my mind that our coordination, including play-calling, have hindered this team's reaching of their potential. There has been no improvement during the course of the season in this regard. We are outgained and out-possessed in every game. We were much more productive when there was less time to make decisions, and the normal flow of the game took over.
Posted on 12/2/09 at 11:12 pm to moneyg
MoneyG, I am not talking about your point that he should be let go. I am laughing at the fact that you think he can be effective with just some better OL play.
Look at Crowton's history at both BYU and UO:
Crowton's history in 3rd/4th years is not good:
At BYU:
Total yards rankings
2001 - 1
2002 - 50
2003 - 102
2004 - 48
Scoring offense
2001 - 1
2002 - 87
2003 - 109
2004 - 69 (Guess what? like 2008 for us lots of turnovers. 30 to be exact or 108th in the nation).
UO:
Total yards rankings:
2005 - 18th
2006 - 9th
Scoring rankings:
2005 - 12th
2006 - 25th (wow, better yards but lower scoring, I wonder why? Could it be? Why yes? 74th in turnovers with 25!
So when Crowton gets more to his offense you get two options:
1) Lots of yards/points + ridiculous number of turnovers or,
2) Little yards points + almost no turnovers.
LSU rankings in 2006 (year before Crowton came):
Total Yards Rankings:
11
Scoring:
9
2007 with Crowton?
Yards:
26
Scoring:
11 (we dropped!) hahah
Now look at our points per game if you take out OT points:
2006 (1 OT game) = 3 extra points
2006 = 33.46 ppg
2007 (2 OT games) = 10 + 20 extra points (30 total)
2006 = 36.5 ppg
Better, but not by much. So his record speaks for itself, he's the problem. PERIOD
Look at Crowton's history at both BYU and UO:
Crowton's history in 3rd/4th years is not good:
At BYU:
Total yards rankings
2001 - 1
2002 - 50
2003 - 102
2004 - 48
Scoring offense
2001 - 1
2002 - 87
2003 - 109
2004 - 69 (Guess what? like 2008 for us lots of turnovers. 30 to be exact or 108th in the nation).
UO:
Total yards rankings:
2005 - 18th
2006 - 9th
Scoring rankings:
2005 - 12th
2006 - 25th (wow, better yards but lower scoring, I wonder why? Could it be? Why yes? 74th in turnovers with 25!
So when Crowton gets more to his offense you get two options:
1) Lots of yards/points + ridiculous number of turnovers or,
2) Little yards points + almost no turnovers.
LSU rankings in 2006 (year before Crowton came):
Total Yards Rankings:
11
Scoring:
9
2007 with Crowton?
Yards:
26
Scoring:
11 (we dropped!) hahah
Now look at our points per game if you take out OT points:
2006 (1 OT game) = 3 extra points
2006 = 33.46 ppg
2007 (2 OT games) = 10 + 20 extra points (30 total)
2006 = 36.5 ppg
Better, but not by much. So his record speaks for itself, he's the problem. PERIOD
Posted on 12/2/09 at 11:14 pm to wahoocs
quote:
For two years, Crowton has put unnecessary pressure on 2 inexperienced QB's in the most bizarre of circumstances.
Unneccesary? Last year we were playing with a defense that gave up tons of points. We needed to score to win. And, we ran the ball effectively a ton...but Lee turned the ball over too often. Still, we moved the ball last year.
This year, we have been ineffective running the ball since day 1. We don't have the option of pounding the ball with our OL.
Our offense was 84th ranked rushing and 108th in sacks allowed. What kind of gameplan do you think would be effective with this reality? Stop and think about it. There are only so many plays you can call with this.
I'm not saying playcalling was great. But, it was not our biggest problem. I actually think it was pretty fricking amazing we won 9 games with an offense as poor as we have.
I hope BelowPar is correct. But, if he's wrong for once, there is hope if somehow our OL is significantly better.
Posted on 12/2/09 at 11:25 pm to LSUMafia
quote:
UO:
Total yards rankings:
2005 - 18th
2006 - 9th
Scoring rankings:
2005 - 12th
2006 - 25th (wow, better yards but lower scoring, I wonder why? Could it be? Why yes? 74th in turnovers with 25!
#1, your use of ordinal rankings is pretty funny. The thought that there is a discernable difference between a team who is ranked 10 spots lower in yardage or points is pretty funny.
#2, you are using a stat that shows they were 9th in yardage and 25th in scoring as evidence that it is impossible for Crowton to be effective. You are not simply saying that we could do better. You are saying that if Crowton is our OC, we can't succeed. Do you not see the irony in that? If our offense were in the range you cited for Crowton in Oregon, we'd be preparing for Florida right now.
You come across as a simple thinker that only sees things in black and white. I don't want Crowton to stay. I don't think he's a great coordinator. Having said that, if he's here next year and our OL somehow (yet to be determined how) significantly improves, we will be MUCH improved on offense.
Posted on 12/2/09 at 11:29 pm to moneyg
No, I said that his teams get worse despite the numbers at OU.
When his offense scored points and got yards in 2006, they were one of the worst teams on offense when it came to turnovers.
Same as us in 2008. Yes, we moved the ball but were horrible in turnovers.
His offenses after year 1 either are lots of yards/points with tons of turnovers (leads to losses) or minimal yardage/scoring and minimized turnovers (2009 LSU). HE had no yardage and a ton of turnovers at BYU in 2003 and ended up with like 16 ppg. Pitiful.
When his offense scored points and got yards in 2006, they were one of the worst teams on offense when it came to turnovers.
Same as us in 2008. Yes, we moved the ball but were horrible in turnovers.
His offenses after year 1 either are lots of yards/points with tons of turnovers (leads to losses) or minimal yardage/scoring and minimized turnovers (2009 LSU). HE had no yardage and a ton of turnovers at BYU in 2003 and ended up with like 16 ppg. Pitiful.
Posted on 12/2/09 at 11:35 pm to moneyg
I just can't see the logic in taking 80 percent or higher of your snaps from the shotgun.
I don't see where inexperienced decision makers are being groomed from five wide sets on third and long, and throwing five yard routes.
Did you really ever feel like JJ didn't know and show where the ball was going hell or high water on every snap?
When did Shepard ever receive a snap that he didn't follow the back off tackle?
We had six running plays that we ran. The DC's knew the plays and the hole. The defenses were calling the hole on many of our running plays. This is straight from the mouth of one of our lineman. Look at how many rushing yards we had the last several games, hell, all season for that matter.
Your damn right it's hard to call successful running plays, when you spend your time practicing shotgun four and five wide all week long, then get in the game with limited running plays you can call and the defense knows when and where.
This is all game preparation, coordination, and management. I can tell you they better change the coordinator, the personnel, or the coordinator on the field if they expect to improve next season.
I don't see where inexperienced decision makers are being groomed from five wide sets on third and long, and throwing five yard routes.
Did you really ever feel like JJ didn't know and show where the ball was going hell or high water on every snap?
When did Shepard ever receive a snap that he didn't follow the back off tackle?
We had six running plays that we ran. The DC's knew the plays and the hole. The defenses were calling the hole on many of our running plays. This is straight from the mouth of one of our lineman. Look at how many rushing yards we had the last several games, hell, all season for that matter.
Your damn right it's hard to call successful running plays, when you spend your time practicing shotgun four and five wide all week long, then get in the game with limited running plays you can call and the defense knows when and where.
This is all game preparation, coordination, and management. I can tell you they better change the coordinator, the personnel, or the coordinator on the field if they expect to improve next season.
Posted on 12/3/09 at 12:20 am to The Egg
quote:
i guess we deserve more underachieving seasons of watching bama and florida dominate, and us taking the backseat to them.
name a coach that will 100% unequivocally be able to beat meyer and saban every year and I WOULD fire miles right now.
you just can't name such a coach. yes, Lester is no better than 3rd best in the conference but that doesn't mean he should get fired. Urban and Nick are top 2 in the country.
Posted on 12/3/09 at 12:46 am to TigerRagAndrew
Why are we recruiting QB's who don't fit his system? i.e. Garrett and Lee (Zach)
Posted on 12/3/09 at 12:53 am to moneyg
quote:
Our offense was 84th ranked rushing and 108th in sacks allowed. What kind of gameplan do you think would be effective with this reality? Stop and think about it. There are only so many plays you can call with this.
I'm not saying playcalling was great. But, it was not our biggest problem. I actually think it was pretty fricking amazing we won 9 games with an offense as poor as we have.
I'm in total agreement with your sentiments, money. You cannot get great playcalling or QB play out of an OL that performs like that. It's the same idea Nick used to sell us in his first year about having to get great DL play to have great DB play and aggressive playcalling, and vice versa. A good OL is is a must, we don't have it as of now.
Posted on 12/3/09 at 12:58 am to bgtiger
quote:
I actually think it was pretty fricking amazing we won 9 games with an offense as poor as we have.
nothing to brag about
quote:
I'm not saying playcalling was great. But, it was not our biggest problem.
between Jefferson and hte playcalling lied the biggest problem.
Posted on 12/3/09 at 1:00 am to wahoocs
quote:
I just can't see the logic in taking 80 percent or higher of your snaps from the shotgun.
Did you watch JJ when he came from under center? He was better off in SG formations. It's what he did in HS and it helps him a greater view of the field and he could keep his head downfield seeing progressions. Everyone sees that he is young and had trouble seeing them anyway, coming from under center would have been even harder on him. They probably realized that our OL was not that good, so that is yet another reason to keep him in the gun as much as possible.
Posted on 12/3/09 at 1:02 am to Lester Earl
Question for you LE: Bigger problem this year OL or JJ?
Posted on 12/3/09 at 1:07 am to bgtiger
jordan jefferson coupled with the playcalling was our downfall. I just said that.
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