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re: There is a ton of intellectual dishonesty regarding O
Posted on 12/7/16 at 12:16 pm to kbro
Posted on 12/7/16 at 12:16 pm to kbro
To really boil it down, they chose to stick with people that know and have had success recruiting in the state instead of hiring new people from the outside to try to learn on the job. Im not necessarily agreeing with Alleva, but that is why he did what he did. Time will tell.
1
Posted on 12/7/16 at 12:20 pm to Rou Leed
Yes we paid a massive buyout to keep the same staff minus Les Miles, Cameron and BDP and the hope that our DL coach will bring in a rockstar OC.
Kiffin isn't coming - we'll see where we land.
O's entire career rides on it.
Kiffin isn't coming - we'll see where we land.
O's entire career rides on it.
Posted on 12/7/16 at 12:20 pm to Rou Leed
You make a valid point, however...
Would you rather a head coach who is or has the potential to be elite, or a possibly elite rb coach and recruiter?
Don't head coaches who elevate to that level end up creating opportunities for elite coaches and deploying their resources effectively?
quote:
Reymond and Juluke and the like are the elite recruiters that have gotten talent here. They would have been impossible to replace and get equal productivity from new hires.
Would you rather a head coach who is or has the potential to be elite, or a possibly elite rb coach and recruiter?
Don't head coaches who elevate to that level end up creating opportunities for elite coaches and deploying their resources effectively?
This post was edited on 12/7/16 at 12:22 pm
Posted on 12/7/16 at 12:23 pm to kbro
quote:
AKA we totally settled and opted to hold things together with hope, Aranda, dental floss, a paper clip, C. Raymond, some silly string and a Hail Mary that Kiffin gets turned down for 4 HC positions and Sark doesn't end up in rehab in the next 2 weeks.
This. Outside of BDP and Cam, we have a solid staff, but our Hail Mary is that a guy with a proven record of failure as a head coach, can not only bring this together, BUT DO BETTER THAN THE LAST GUY, who had, and hired this very staff.
Posted on 12/7/16 at 12:24 pm to kbro
quote:
Without Key and Beckwith
yea, the leading tackler and leading pass rush specialist vs a passing team..
Posted on 12/7/16 at 12:25 pm to Freauxzen
We have been an elite program with a subpar HC for a very long time due to work of assistants and such on the recruiting trail. People are really giving Miles way too much credit for his contribution to the overall success.
Posted on 12/7/16 at 12:26 pm to Freauxzen
Bingo
Posted on 12/7/16 at 12:28 pm to Freauxzen
I dont think Miles hired the staff. I am honestly not real sure what Miles should get credit for doing. I dont think he had much control of that the past couple years.
Posted on 12/7/16 at 12:31 pm to Rou Leed
quote:
We have been an elite program with a subpar HC for a very long time due to work of assistants and such on the recruiting trail. People are really giving Miles way too much credit for his contribution to the overall success.
Two ways to look at this:
1) If you don't give Miles credit for 114 wins as a Top tier, or at least 2nd tier, coach, then did we just double down on the same exact kind of coach who lacks real football acumen and we're hoping that assistants and a rotating carousel of Coordinators can do better than we have over the last 5 years?
2) This perspective is odd. You don't luck your way into 114 wins, a National Championship, and a couple of SEC Championships, during the dominance of the West, without being a pretty good coach. Miles problems weren't really an issue until he became stubborn and far to safe. He hasn't been the Mad Hatter since 1/9. He was effective prior to that. Personally, I wanted Miles gone in 2015, however, I would never discredit his run. The guy was a top tier coach at one point in time. And he's a better coach than Ed can ever be.
Posted on 12/7/16 at 12:35 pm to Nutriaitch
quote:
i personally had all 3 ranked above O. i also had guys like Fuente, and Whittingham above him as well.
and you have them ranked that high based on opinion or actually having contact with them?
I would be willing to bet that the search committee talked to most of them to gauge interest and vice versa...lets discuss Fuente...you know its a $7 million buy out to get him right?
Posted on 12/7/16 at 12:37 pm to Topwater Trout
quote:
and you have them ranked that high based on opinion or actually having contact with them?
i had the exact same number of face to face interviews with them as Alleva had.
quote:
lets discuss Fuente...you know its a $7 million buy out to get him right?
that's why I didn't have him higher on my personal list.
Posted on 12/7/16 at 12:41 pm to Rou Leed
quote:
I dont think Miles hired the staff
Say what?
quote:
I don't think he had much control of that the past couple years.
Who hired staff then?
Posted on 12/7/16 at 12:41 pm to Freauxzen
Im not trying to discredit his entire run, the past two seasons he was a coach with a .500 percent winning percentage in the SEC. Thats subpar. He was extremely successful but he was not a mastermind that single handedly controlled or manufactured the success of the LSU football program. The past two seasons more and more of his buddies were forced out and i dont think he had a very firm grip of control on the program was all i was saying.
Posted on 12/7/16 at 12:43 pm to kbro
Alleva hires staff. It wasnt Les idea to not pay Chief. He doesnt have full control of all the hires and shouldnt get credit for it.
Posted on 12/7/16 at 12:43 pm to Nutriaitch
quote:
i had the exact same number of face to face interviews with them as Alleva had.
did you have the same number of conversations with their agents?
why haven't these guys changed jobs?
Posted on 12/7/16 at 12:44 pm to Rou Leed
quote:
Alleva hires staff. It wasnt Les idea to not pay Chief. He doesnt have full control of all the hires and shouldnt get credit for it.
Right Alleva allowed Chief to bolt but hiring Aranda (upgrade) was 100% Les.
ETA - Alleva does not hire staff outside of HC's. Miles hired Aranda and O will hire the OC.
This post was edited on 12/7/16 at 12:46 pm
Posted on 12/7/16 at 12:48 pm to kbro
I dont know who made the push to hire Aranda but it was a good hire. I doubt anyone deserves 100% credit on it. Dumping Chief worked out good also and certainly Les did not want that to happen.
Posted on 12/7/16 at 12:51 pm to Freauxzen
It is strange how the narrative has grown among some LSU fans that even a monkey could have achieved the results that Miles did. I was emotionally done with him at the end... but the run LSU had between 2001 and 2012 was more than half Les Miles. He almost ran the table seven years into his tenure, so the idea that it was all due to the carry over of Nick seems obviously untrue.
RE: the OP? I still have an enormous disagreement with anyone who thought Orgeron was a suitable candidate, let alone hire, for LSU head coach. I do think there were at least ten attainable options that should have been hired instead of him, but here we are.
RE: the OP? I still have an enormous disagreement with anyone who thought Orgeron was a suitable candidate, let alone hire, for LSU head coach. I do think there were at least ten attainable options that should have been hired instead of him, but here we are.
Posted on 12/7/16 at 12:51 pm to kbro
I dont think its that simple and clean cut. The AD signs off on all hires. There is more than one person involved in the process of attracting coaching hires. Les Miles is not putting out job reqs on Monster.com to hire people. You are over simplifying a complex process.
Posted on 12/7/16 at 1:03 pm to Freauxzen
quote:
Would you rather a head coach who is or has the potential to be elite, or a possibly elite rb coach and recruiter?
It should be the guy that has the potential to be an elite HC.
We all know recruiting is important, but recruiting ability can be approximated more easily than elite coaching.
Give me an A+ tactician with B- recruiting over the D- tactician with A+ recruiting. Much easier to surround an elite HC with recruiters than the reverse.
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