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re: All this talk about markets is misguided
Posted on 8/15/11 at 9:40 am to Indiana Tiger
Posted on 8/15/11 at 9:40 am to Indiana Tiger
quote:
The idea that we would be limited on games broadcast on ESPN/CBS to what the SEC has today is silly.
Absolutely. The misconception is that ESPN will show ACC or Big East games out of region in time slots where they could get a larger market share out of region with SEC games. I'm not saying this will always be the case, but if I lived in Nevada, I would much rather watch a 4:00-pm CT game with Georgia v. TAMU than WVU v. BC. Just saying.
This is also the case with adding FSU or someone with a larger national following. Not Mizzou...
0
Posted on 8/15/11 at 9:42 am to PetTiger
quote:
Not all of the SEC games are shown nationally on ESPN. This is where adding the new markets comes into play. The "regional games" that ESPN shows are only shown within the geographic area of the conference. With the addition of TAMU, the region size increases within Texas (42% of current SEC population). The ad dollars would be sold, as would the contract for rights, on potential viewership.
This notion is what makes me think FSU would be worth the pain of having in the SEC. I'm starting to think that some of their lesser hyped games like FSU/OM would be great as a regional alternative in addition to marquee games like FSU/AL nationally.
I dont' think FSU wants to go anywhere though. Now that the ACC is a complete hot mess they have a cake walk to the BCS bowls.
This post was edited on 8/15/11 at 9:44 am
Posted on 8/15/11 at 10:08 am to roadGator
quote:
I dont' think FSU wants to go anywhere though
they did just get a bigger tv deal
quote:
Now that the ACC is a complete hot mess
now? since expansion it's been a hot mess
Posted on 8/16/11 at 7:58 am to PetTiger
quote:
Not all of the SEC games are shown nationally on ESPN. This is where adding the new markets comes into play. The "regional games" that ESPN shows are only shown within the geographic area of the conference.
how many regional games are shown a week?
is that b/c of the new deals with the big12?
i'm pretty sure most, if not all, of the ESPN games are national broadcasts. ABC does regional broadcasts
link me to an example of ESPN showing regional options, please
Posted on 8/16/11 at 8:26 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
if we want to increase our tv value, FSU should be the #1 target within the region. sorry for the confusion in the OP
FSU brings a legit fanbase who watches games, as well as a national bandwagon following from the 90s success
Missouri does not bring either.
If you're looking to bring a new fan base, money, audience into the SEC then they'd pick Mizzou or a team from Virginia. SEC already have Florida viewers for the SEC brand of football established in that state. With Mizzou you're getting the whole state of Missouri, you go into the KC area with Kansas, then go into STL area with Southern Illinois. That's A LOT of fans you're bringing into the SEC, gettting into newer parts of the country.
I might add in Southern Missouri we already get SEC 11am games on CW. SEC already know they're in Southern Missouri. But they don't get the major metro areas including KS and IL.
It's about expanding your conference into newer parts of the country because we all know the PAC 12 will go to 16, SEC to 16, ACC to 16, Big Ten to 16 teams. It's not about getting the TOUGHEST teams to join, then everybody will beat up on each other. You want a geographical area locked up. I promise you if Mizzou joins the SEC, the Big Ten or Pac 12 will go after the Kansas Schools and Oklahoma Schools. It's all about getting new territory. You hear the saying this is Big Ten Country, SEC Country, etc.
This post was edited on 8/16/11 at 8:27 am
Posted on 8/16/11 at 10:49 am to Indiana Tiger
quote:
They will find a way to maximize profits, even if it means increasing regional broadcasts as you suggest. It's nonsensical to think otherwise. An extreme example would be say if the SEC swallowed every conference. The idea that we would be limited on games broadcast on ESPN/CBS to what the SEC has today is silly.
Mr. Omniscient around here seems to think differently.
@ SFP's posts and intellect. You're seriously an attorney, SFP? If so:
Posted on 8/16/11 at 11:08 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
link me to an example of ESPN showing regional options, please
ESPN 2011 CFB Game Schedule
See the fourth bullet in the "College Football on Additional ESPN Platforms" section.
Also, see this link as an example from last year. While this shows the majority of the games reverse simulcast on ABC & ESPN. Like you mentioned...
quote:
ABC does regional broadcasts
which is an ESPN broadcast... So...
quote:
The "regional games" that ESPN shows are only shown within the geographic area of the conference.
still applies.
On another note, how did parts of upstate NY and eastern Massachusetts get lumped into the southeastern US region?
Posted on 8/16/11 at 11:57 am to SlowFlowPro
Nailed it.
Posted on 8/16/11 at 12:25 pm to PetTiger
quote:
On another note, how did parts of upstate NY and eastern Massachusetts get lumped into the southeastern US region?
Because nobody watches Syracuse and UConn until basketball season starts.
Posted on 8/16/11 at 12:46 pm to bayou2003
Having FSU brings more negotiating power to the SEC. If you add them, the SEC will dominate the media markets from Ark/LA to GA/FL. If you want target viewers of college sports you either advertize on SEC products or the likes of Clemson, GaTech, Miami, SoFL, or Louisville, none of which will break thru broadly in the SE unless it's an extremely compelling game and those will be few and far between. FSU is right in the heart of that. If they stay in the ACC advertisers have more choice.
ESPN is kind of just a middle man in this. With the exception of gaining maybe a couple of more compelling games if FSU moves over, they're probably indifferent to which conference because they have deals with both sides. But add FSU and put the rights up for bid, the conference should be able to extract more rents because ESPN or whoever should be able to extract more from advertisers.
I don't know who is best for the SEC, but a lot of people really undervalue the strategic importance of FSU to the SEC.
ESPN is kind of just a middle man in this. With the exception of gaining maybe a couple of more compelling games if FSU moves over, they're probably indifferent to which conference because they have deals with both sides. But add FSU and put the rights up for bid, the conference should be able to extract more rents because ESPN or whoever should be able to extract more from advertisers.
I don't know who is best for the SEC, but a lot of people really undervalue the strategic importance of FSU to the SEC.
Posted on 8/16/11 at 12:57 pm to SlowFlowPro
I've seen it reported the if the SEC expands, the TV deals can/have to be regotiated.
Posted on 8/16/11 at 1:15 pm to PetTiger
quote:
See the fourth bullet in the "College Football on Additional ESPN Platforms" section.
...
quote:
will produce games from the SEC, BIG EAST, MAC and WAC.
the SEC isn't really competing with the Big East, MAC, and WAC for viewers
quote:
which is an ESPN broadcast... So...
ABC is not a subsidiary of ESPN
quote:
still applies.
so we'll gain share in the Big East, MAC, and/or WAC regional market? VICTORY!
only one of those would even possibly apply, and that's possibly gaining broadcast of the WAC region for a TAMU game here or there. and i don't think those regions overlap
and ESPNRegional is a small piece of the pie
what are some examples of ESPNRegional games?
Posted on 8/16/11 at 1:17 pm to bayou2003
quote:
If you're looking to bring a new fan base, money, audience into the SEC then they'd pick Mizzou or a team from Virginia.
but neither Missouri or a VA school has the fan base, money, or audience numbers that FSU brings
quote:
SEC already have Florida viewers for the SEC brand of football established in that state
but FSU viewers will watch an FSU game as opposed to a UF game, if given the choice of the 2
quote:
With Mizzou you're getting the whole state of Missouri
and if that state doesn't really watch CFB, what good is that?
quote:
you go into the KC area with Kansas, then go into STL area with Southern Illinois. That's A LOT of fans you're bringing into the SEC
if there were a lot of fans, Missouri would be much more popular
quote:
You want a geographical area locked up. I promise you if Mizzou joins the SEC, the Big Ten or Pac 12 will go after the Kansas Schools and Oklahoma Schools. It's all about getting new territory. You hear the saying this is Big Ten Country, SEC Country, etc.
the big10 and pac12 have cable networks that will make more money in expanded areas, regardless of whether people actually watch the network or not
Posted on 8/16/11 at 1:53 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
ABC is not a subsidiary of ESPN
Correct! ABC owns ESPN. All ABC CFB broadcasts are ESPN productions, hence the name "ESPN on ABC", making it an ESPN broadcast. I will try to be more literal next time.
quote:
so we'll gain share in the Big East, MAC, and/or WAC regional market? VICTORY!
You're right because the Big East has no large TV markets within its footprint.
quote:
only one of those would even possibly apply, and that's possibly gaining broadcast of the WAC region for a TAMU game here or there. and i don't think those regions overlap
The argument was FSU would draw more national interest over the potential addition of a team outside the current SEC footprint, like VaTech or Missouri
. This regional argument would obviously only apply when a specific market (say the West Coast) didn't have a compelling match-up involving regional teams (Pac-10), like for instance the 11-am game (SEC TV or Big 10 game). In that time slot FSU (potential SEC TV game with Ole Miss) has the potential to draw more viewers in Cali than Michigan (another team that could have an 11-am game on the same day v. Illinois). If you substitute Missouri for FSU, then the SEC TV game would have almost no shot versus the draw of Michigan (I realize the program is down, but it is a national brand). I also assume that there would be a team from the east (Boston College) that would take the Mid-Atlantic & New England regions during that time slot. The same logic would apply for this region as well. quote:
ESPNRegional is a small piece of the pie
what are some examples of ESPNRegional games?
This applies to all SEC TV games, which can be sold outside of the ESPN networks. Typically it would also apply to 11-am games.
The majority of SEC games are broadcast on ESPN's GamePlan. Adding a national brand name school to the conference might bump one more league game to ESPN's cable networks (as opposed to premium)each week. That would mean more ad dollars sold for SEC time slots; therefore, the potential value would be higher when a new TV contract for 2nd tier rights is negotiated.
Posted on 8/16/11 at 2:24 pm to PetTiger
quote:
You're right because the Big East has no large TV markets within its footprint.
a. how does TAMU get the SEC interest in the Big East markets?
b. why does the market size matter if few people in those huge markets watch CFB?
quote:
The argument was FSU would draw more national interest over the potential addition of a team outside the current SEC footprint, like VaTech or Missouri
and it will
but i was discsusing the "market impact on regional games" for TAMU (since we don't know the 2nd team)
quote:
This regional argument would obviously only apply when a specific market (say the West Coast) didn't have a compelling match-up involving regional teams (Pac-10), like for instance the 11-am game (SEC TV or Big 10 game). In that time slot FSU (potential SEC TV game with Ole Miss) has the potential to draw more viewers in Cali than Michigan (another team that could have an 11-am game on the same day v. Illinois)
compelling or not, the games will still likely come down to region
quote:
This applies to all SEC TV games, which can be sold outside of the ESPN networks. Typically it would also apply to 11-am games.
again, small piece of the pie, esp in vastly foreign markets this expansion won't touch (west coast, upper east coast)
quote:
Adding a national brand name school to the conference might bump one more league game to ESPN's cable networks
there are only a finite number of these games though, and ESPN has to split them up with other conferences (big12, big10, big east i think)
if expansion can somehow change the nature of CFB tv scheduling, and SEC expansion leads to a new slot, then all bets are off. i said once that thursday night prime time on network tv would be a ballsy move for a network.
but on saturdays, there are only so many games. typically 1-2 big 10 in the am, then at least 1 SEC at night (on ESPN/2), with 2 often. this compliments the CBS day game.
i don't think ESPN will like CBS pushing for more night games, as that will cut into the ESPN bottom line
Posted on 8/16/11 at 2:47 pm to SlowFlowPro
If SEC gets to renegotiate the contract because of expansion then having the threat of starting your own network has to have teeth. Having A&M+1 gives us that.
If we do add A&M, plus hold out for a team in a new market, then I have to think that is in fact what Slive's plan is.
The magic number then would be at what price is ESPN willing to call our bluff and say adios. I'm thinking that we know that number would be huge.
If we do add A&M, plus hold out for a team in a new market, then I have to think that is in fact what Slive's plan is.
The magic number then would be at what price is ESPN willing to call our bluff and say adios. I'm thinking that we know that number would be huge.
Posted on 8/16/11 at 2:52 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
how does TAMU get the SEC interest in the Big East markets?
They don't. I never said they do. I said adding TAMU would increase the viewing market (population) by 42% and that I would rather watch a TAMU game over a WVU game. The key word is I... The main argument with the regions I made was that adding FSU would be worth more due to its national following than adding Missouri to get the entire Missouri market.
quote:
why does the market size matter if few people in those huge markets watch CFB?
Because during the contract negotiations, it is impossible to know the ratings. The only thing you can do is look at potential. The better the product (SEC games) in a larger market will project better. Again, THIS IS INSIDE OF A MARKET THAT DOESN'T HAVE A GAME AT THAT SAME TIME SLOT. It may only happen a handful of times a year, but that time in the year is up for grabs. Wouldn't you rather get it than someone else. If you have Missouri in that slot, the SEC probably doesn't gain anything. FSU is a different story.
quote:
but i was discsusing the "market impact on regional games" for TAMU (since we don't know the 2nd team)
And my original post you questioned was directed at someone else discussing how adding FSU would not provide much gain in TV revenue over say a Missouri...
quote:
compelling or not, the games will still likely come down to region
I completely agree, but the region in the given example typically doesn't have a regional game to televise at that time slot. You asked for an example and I provided one that happens weekly.
quote:
esp in vastly foreign markets this expansion won't touch (west coast, upper east coast)
I disagree. Again, look at the example. It makes sense to me. Maybe I am missing something...
quote:
i don't think ESPN will like CBS pushing for more night games, as that will cut into the ESPN bottom line
Totally agree, but CBS is planning on adding a second primetime SEC game this year. It will definitely cut into the ESPN telecast in primetime on ABC.
quote:
but on saturdays, there are only so many games.
Couldn't agree more. However, would you agree within that finite number of slots there is competition between the conferences to get their games on TV?
quote:
then at least 1 SEC at night (on ESPN/2), with 2 often. this compliments the CBS day game.
Aren't there typically 3 SEC games on ESPN networks typically? There is the 6:45 time slot on ESPN, a 7:45 time slot on ESPN 2 and isn't there a 6:30 time slot on ESPN U that usually show SEC games?
Isn't it safe to say that adding a national brand (FSU) is better than Missouri and to a lesser degree VaTech? I would think that would give you more bargaining power when the time came to negotiate. With that type of addition, it is far more likely to have compelling match-ups that will draw larger TV shares with higher profile universities.
Posted on 8/16/11 at 3:32 pm to PetTiger
quote:
Because during the contract negotiations, it is impossible to know the ratings. The only thing you can do is look at potential. The better the product (SEC games) in a larger market will project better
but the failure in the markets currently is a failure in CFB in general, not the team itself
CFB just isn't big in KC/STL. i don't think Missouri being a 3rd tier team in the SEC will automatically make those people watch CFB
just look at the SEC. not many major media markets or population hubs, but the 2nd most popular conference (behind the big10, which has SEC-like tradition and HUGE population centers)
quote:
THIS IS INSIDE OF A MARKET THAT DOESN'T HAVE A GAME AT THAT SAME TIME SLOT.
ESPN/2 show SEC games on saturday nights. CBS shows SEC games at 230 central
quote:
And my original post you questioned was directed at someone else discussing how adding FSU would not provide much gain in TV revenue over say a Missouri...
i said it would. my OP had a typo
FSU > Missouri
quote:
However, would you agree within that finite number of slots there is competition between the conferences to get their games on TV?
i think the competition is already over and the vast majority of the slots are set
quote:
Aren't there typically 3 SEC games on ESPN networks typically? There is the 6:45 time slot on ESPN, a 7:45 time slot on ESPN 2 and isn't there a 6:30 time slot on ESPN U that usually show SEC games?
i dunno how consistent the ESPNU game is. that's why i limited the comment to ESPN/2
quote:
Isn't it safe to say that adding a national brand (FSU) is better than Missouri and to a lesser degree VaTech?
without a doubt. esp over Missouri, who adds nothing
i don't think we're actually disagreeing, you just misunderstood me
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