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Do you believe we'll get to a point of using water (hydrogen g.) as fuel in your lifetime?
Posted on 7/20/23 at 10:37 am
Posted on 7/20/23 at 10:37 am
It is technically feasible using electrolysis and burning the hydrogen. It hasn't been made practical or safe for every day use, but it is possible it eventually gets there.
If we simultaneously conquer that hurdle and a cost-effective way to desalinate massive amounts of ocean water we would be a cooking with gas (pardon the pun). Unlimited energy essentially.
Do you think we get to that point in your lifetime? Essentially a point where there are large electrolysis plants providing power to the grid?
For some reason I find it fascinating to think about.
Triggered by the underground hydrogen thread.
ETA:
Clarified, not steam
If we simultaneously conquer that hurdle and a cost-effective way to desalinate massive amounts of ocean water we would be a cooking with gas (pardon the pun). Unlimited energy essentially.
Do you think we get to that point in your lifetime? Essentially a point where there are large electrolysis plants providing power to the grid?
For some reason I find it fascinating to think about.
Triggered by the underground hydrogen thread.
ETA:
Clarified, not steam
This post was edited on 7/20/23 at 10:55 am
33
Posted on 7/20/23 at 10:42 am to CatfishJohn
Have you ever heard of steam?
Posted on 7/20/23 at 10:44 am to Crab trapper12
quote:
Have you ever heard of steam?
Yes, obviously not what I meant
. Steam obviously isn't powering an entire grid. But good catch. I should've clarified hydrogen fuel as by-product of electrolysis.
Posted on 7/20/23 at 10:44 am to CatfishJohn
If I was in charge, I would incentivize oil companies to come up with ways to make this happen. Instead of handcuffing them from producing oil, make it in their best interest to pivot to more "clean energy" avenues.
Posted on 7/20/23 at 10:45 am to CatfishJohn
If we do, it will be labeled a greenhouse gas or some other harmful element and you won't be allowed to use it for that.
Posted on 7/20/23 at 10:46 am to CatfishJohn
quote:
Do you believe we'll get to a point of using water (hydrogen g.) as fuel in your lifetime?
Posted on 7/20/23 at 10:47 am to CatfishJohn
quote:
technically feasible using electrolysis
quote:
Unlimited energy essentially.
You’re basically asking if we’ll ever get a point of using electricity for fuel.
Posted on 7/20/23 at 10:47 am to Crab trapper12
quote:
Have you ever heard of steam?
Yeah it went obsolete for a reason. Fossil fuels are the perfect balance between cost and efficiency.
Posted on 7/20/23 at 10:47 am to StrongOffer
quote:
If I was in charge, I would incentivize oil companies to come up with ways to make this happen. Instead of handcuffing them from producing oil, make it in their best interest to pivot to more "clean energy" avenues.
I wonder what the patent on a cost-effective, practical, and safe electrolysis design is worth vs. oil business?
I'm sure that math has been done and it's not close.
Posted on 7/20/23 at 10:49 am to TheDrunkenTigah
quote:
You’re basically asking if we’ll ever get a point of using electricity for fuel.
No I'm not. You're using electricity to create the fuel (hydrogen gas). But yes, it would be cyclical. That gas would then power the process of creating more. In theory however, it would not take a ton of energy (electricity) to create the gas.
This post was edited on 7/20/23 at 10:52 am
Posted on 7/20/23 at 10:53 am to CatfishJohn
This is a hybrid system to up your mpg 50%-100% by separating the hydrogen from the water.
But it is DIY so you need to be a tinkerer. And read the details.
Water4Gas
And good additional info: Is Water4Gas a scam?
But it is DIY so you need to be a tinkerer. And read the details.
Water4Gas
And good additional info: Is Water4Gas a scam?
This post was edited on 7/20/23 at 10:55 am
Posted on 7/20/23 at 10:59 am to CatfishJohn
quote:
That gas would then power the process of creating more.
Might want to check your math on this one, but even assuming you could somehow get “free” electricity to perform the hydrolysis, why wouldn’t you just use the electricity? Water’s role in the whole process you’re describing is basically just changing the form the energy is in, which is why so many people are pointing out steam.
Posted on 7/20/23 at 11:02 am to CatfishJohn
Yes.
There are already hydrogen cars on the road today. Very limited, but they are out there. The fact hat you can use hydrogen to fuel internal combustion engines helps.
I also think you start seeing more and more natural gas blended with hydrogen for residential use.
I don't necessarily think the future of hydrogen will be fueled by electrolysis. I think we'll continue to rely on getting hydrogen as a by-product from gas streams, biomass, landfill methane, etc.
There are already hydrogen cars on the road today. Very limited, but they are out there. The fact hat you can use hydrogen to fuel internal combustion engines helps.
I also think you start seeing more and more natural gas blended with hydrogen for residential use.
I don't necessarily think the future of hydrogen will be fueled by electrolysis. I think we'll continue to rely on getting hydrogen as a by-product from gas streams, biomass, landfill methane, etc.
Posted on 7/20/23 at 11:03 am to CatfishJohn
quote:Running the hydrogen through a fuel cell is far more efficient than burning it, and I'm pretty sure there's a law prohibiting getting more energy out of the system than was put in via electrolysis. So the hydrogen serves as an inefficient battery, which can be useful if we have an excess of cheap energy from solar/wind/wave/tide/geothermal/whatever.
Do you believe we'll get to a point of using water (hydrogen g.) as fuel in your lifetime?
It is technically feasible using electrolysis and burning the hydrogen.
Posted on 7/20/23 at 11:04 am to TheDrunkenTigah
The electricity to power the hydrolysis comes from your 12v car battery. That’s not enough to propel the car if it had an electric motor.
Posted on 7/20/23 at 11:13 am to Bullfrog
And the energy in your 12v cranking battery isn’t jack shite compared to what it takes to propel a car.
To make this feasible you need an unlimited supply of cheap electricity. Figure that out, and no one will give a shite whether you use it to make hydrogen gas.
To make this feasible you need an unlimited supply of cheap electricity. Figure that out, and no one will give a shite whether you use it to make hydrogen gas.
Posted on 7/20/23 at 11:14 am to CatfishJohn
quote:
Steam obviously isn't powering an entire grid.
Coal fired power plants turn the turbines with it.
Natural gas fired power plants turn the turbines with it.
Nuclear power plants turn the turbines with it.
The only things that are not providing power by using steam are:
Hydro (dams) - which are still water powered
Solar
Wind
This post was edited on 7/20/23 at 11:15 am
Posted on 7/20/23 at 11:14 am to Bullfrog
We will move to many small mini Nuclear power plants to create electricity (current grid capacity x 1000+) , said cheap electricity used for electrolysis to generate hydrogen.
Hydrogen filling stations and fuel cells replace ICE and EV vehicles (no more lithium mining at any scale beyond boat and power tool batteries)
That’s where it’s going from a practical sustainable technology perspective.
Virtue signaling politicians and elite puppet masters who want to reduce populations and reduce energy consumption overall both slowing it down dramatically as for as getting there.
Likely 20 - 50 years out depending on how long it takes for aforementioned shitbag leaders to be replaced with semi-competent s, and I’m in my 50s so not sure if I’ll live to see it or not.
Hydrogen filling stations and fuel cells replace ICE and EV vehicles (no more lithium mining at any scale beyond boat and power tool batteries)
That’s where it’s going from a practical sustainable technology perspective.
Virtue signaling politicians and elite puppet masters who want to reduce populations and reduce energy consumption overall both slowing it down dramatically as for as getting there.
Likely 20 - 50 years out depending on how long it takes for aforementioned shitbag leaders to be replaced with semi-competent s, and I’m in my 50s so not sure if I’ll live to see it or not.
This post was edited on 7/20/23 at 11:18 am
Posted on 7/20/23 at 11:32 am to CatfishJohn
Yes, when I was growing up, more specially, hot plasma by combining deuterium and antideuterium (matter and antimattrer versions of a particular isotope of hydrogen. Now no
Posted on 7/20/23 at 11:37 am to Undertow
quote:
Have you ever heard of steam?
Yeah it went obsolete for a reason. Fossil fuels are the perfect balance between cost and efficiency.
Do you realize that those fossil fuels are being burned in order to make steam?
Steam IS what’s powering entire grids.
And to the OPs point, yes. There are companies are working on electrolysis to make hydrogen, to burn the hydrogen, to make steam. It’s an experiment.
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