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Zone 2 Training
Posted on 10/28/23 at 3:41 pm
Posted on 10/28/23 at 3:41 pm
This is brutal mentally. Had my VO2 and Max HR checked. Gave me a zone 2 of 117-130 HR. Blistered miles in the 13-17 min range on my long run today. Those fricking mitochondria better appreciate the effort this takes.
6
Posted on 10/28/23 at 5:01 pm to Aubie Spr96
If I recall, you are pretty fit right? I’d be surprised if a 15-17 minute mile is zone 2 for anyone that is remotely fit. 13 minutes may be. I’ve always considered 10-11 minute miles where Hr stays in 130-140 range zone 2. that is only based the teaching that zone 2 is where your breathing is at the point where you can still hold a conversation but it’s a bit of a struggle. Of course lactic acid level is the golf standard and I’ve been considering gettting a meter.
A few questions for you if you please. What vo2 max protocol did you use? What was your max heart rate? How did they calculate the HR target?
A few questions for you if you please. What vo2 max protocol did you use? What was your max heart rate? How did they calculate the HR target?
This post was edited on 10/28/23 at 8:27 pm
Posted on 10/28/23 at 6:02 pm to Aubie Spr96
Son, I walk at a 16 minute mile pace. My heart rate sits around 90. No way you can that bad off
Posted on 10/29/23 at 8:01 am to Aubie Spr96
It's been several years, but I had difficulty staying in zone 2 as well when I trained. Anything above a walk and I'm easily in the 130 to 150 and above. Especially for any appreciable time. Staying in zone 2 meant a lot of walking.
I eventually got a coach/trainer when I did an Ironman, and he didn't use zone training. Instead followed the Jack Daniel's program. I'd recommend looking up that book if you aren't familiar. Similar concept as HR training, but its based of paces. I'd test my 5k time every 4 weeks or so. The reder to a table that would give me my slow/easy pace, tempo pace, and expected race paces for distances up to marathon. I found it worked much better for me.
I eventually got a coach/trainer when I did an Ironman, and he didn't use zone training. Instead followed the Jack Daniel's program. I'd recommend looking up that book if you aren't familiar. Similar concept as HR training, but its based of paces. I'd test my 5k time every 4 weeks or so. The reder to a table that would give me my slow/easy pace, tempo pace, and expected race paces for distances up to marathon. I found it worked much better for me.
Posted on 10/29/23 at 8:30 am to NewOrleansBlend
quote:
If I recall, you are pretty fit right? I’d be surprised if a 15-17 minute mile is zone 2 for anyone that is remotely fit. 13 minutes may be. I’ve always considered 10-11 minute miles where Hr stays in 130-140 range zone 2. that is only based the teaching that zone 2 is where your breathing is at the point where you can still hold a conversation but it’s a bit of a struggle. Of course lactic acid level is the golf standard and I’ve been considering gettting a meter.
You can be in “good shape” and still be metabolically inefficient., such as beign a speedster but only used to burning up anerobic energy sources.. You need to get comfortable doing metabolically demanding work with only aerobic energy, ie nasal breathing only, which is what zone 2 is.
This post was edited on 10/29/23 at 8:32 am
Posted on 10/29/23 at 9:31 am to NewOrleansBlend
quote:
I’d be surprised if a 15-17 minute mile is zone 2 for anyone that is remotely fit.
In fairness, those miles were 9-12 on a hot, hilly course.
quote:
I’ve always considered 10-11 minute miles where Hr stays in 130-140 range zone 2.
Same here. Exact same course last week at 140 was 10-12min miles.
quote:
What vo2 max protocol did you use?
Not sure. Just the mask on a treadmill.
quote:
What was your max heart rate?
195.
quote:
How did they calculate the HR target?
Not sure. But 195 times 60-70%, is roughly what they gave me (117-130).
I’m willing to give it some time, maybe 6 months or so and have it tested again. Looking to increase VO2. 80% zone 2 and then a mix of threshold and VO2 max workouts.
Posted on 10/29/23 at 9:58 am to Aubie Spr96
I'm an older, beginner "runner" who struggles with heart rate getting too high. I've done zone 2 training that slowly has increased my VO2 max. I then tried a 3-4 day a week schedule where the direction was just to "run easy", which actually resulted in my 5k time increasing (despite my HR zone being mostly zone 5 which is probably impossible).
So I'm now trying MAF, where heart rate isn't supposed to go above 130. There is a good bit of walking involved, but the periods of heart rate recovery seem to be getting shorter. One benefit is there is no soreness or stiffness the next day, which is allowing me to increase my load.
So I'm now trying MAF, where heart rate isn't supposed to go above 130. There is a good bit of walking involved, but the periods of heart rate recovery seem to be getting shorter. One benefit is there is no soreness or stiffness the next day, which is allowing me to increase my load.
Posted on 10/29/23 at 11:14 am to Stan Switek
quote:
One benefit is there is no soreness or stiffness the next day, which is allowing me to increase my load.
I noticed this today.
Going to try simply walking in a weighted vest today. Guessing I can do 120-130 by doing that and not running at all.
Posted on 10/29/23 at 11:18 am to Stan Switek
quote:
. One benefit is there is no soreness or stiffness the next day, which is allowing me to increase my load.
Because you are using purely aerobic energy and there is little or no lactic acid being produced.
Posted on 10/29/23 at 6:51 pm to REG861
Walking the stadium steps at the local high school with the weighted vest was an easy way to stay in that 125 zone. Jumping rope was another way to do it. Try running in that zone again in the morning. I have a flat course near the house to try.
Posted on 10/29/23 at 7:23 pm to Aubie Spr96
What’s the goal with zone 2? Trying to hit a certain amount of time in zone 2 per week?
I sort of did zone 2 training when I tried the Maffetone system with running. I’m not sure if I gained much aerobically, but I definitely lost a lot of speed running slow all the damn time.
I sort of did zone 2 training when I tried the Maffetone system with running. I’m not sure if I gained much aerobically, but I definitely lost a lot of speed running slow all the damn time.
This post was edited on 10/29/23 at 7:24 pm
Posted on 10/29/23 at 7:53 pm to StringedInstruments
Yep. 80% in zone 2. The other 20% will be threshold and VO2 work. We will see. I’ll give it 6 months and get it tested again. If I see progress, I’ll keep it up.
Posted on 10/29/23 at 7:59 pm to REG861
quote:
ie nasal breathing only, which is what zone 2 is.
This is absolutely not what zone 2 is. Zone 2 is metabolic state strenuous enough that muscle is using maximum aerobic metabolism, ie oxidative phosphorylation in the mitochondria, but not yet requiring anaerobic metabolism leading to lactic acid production.
What you are referring to is a surrogate and not the surrogate I am familiar with regarding zone 2.
OP, I would question whether a HR target is truly an accurate surrogate for zone 2. I trust Peter Attia regarding zone 2. The guy is obsessive about it, tracks his lactate, hr, power output on his bike, and RPE (rate of perceived exertion) on every workout. The intensity of his zone 2 is not easy, he says he can talk during it but doesn’t want to. He also says that his perceived level of exertion is a strong predictor of being in the right lactate zone, which he trusts just as much or more than his heart rate.
One easy example is that clearly heart rate will rise if you are hot, even if you weren’t exercising. But, that has zero to do with zone 2 or muscle metabolism. Otherwise, you could sit in a sauna and become an endurance athlete
This post was edited on 10/29/23 at 8:11 pm
Posted on 10/29/23 at 8:22 pm to NewOrleansBlend
I’ve done that.
I had my VO2 tested a year ago. I had a guy in Utah break it down for me and gave me a zone 2 of 120-160. This roughly matched my Garmin. Garmin had my base runs at 155 HR. I did that along with VO2 and threshold work. A year later my VO2 did increase, but only marginally.
This time, I’m using the zone 2 range from the VO2 test: 114-130. My lactate threshold is 142 HR.
I had my VO2 tested a year ago. I had a guy in Utah break it down for me and gave me a zone 2 of 120-160. This roughly matched my Garmin. Garmin had my base runs at 155 HR. I did that along with VO2 and threshold work. A year later my VO2 did increase, but only marginally.
This time, I’m using the zone 2 range from the VO2 test: 114-130. My lactate threshold is 142 HR.
Posted on 10/29/23 at 9:46 pm to NewOrleansBlend
quote:
This is absolutely not what zone 2 is. Zone 2 is metabolic state strenuous enough that muscle is using maximum aerobic metabolism, ie oxidative phosphorylation in the mitochondria, but not yet requiring anaerobic metabolism leading to lactic acid production.
Which is what I’ve said elsewhere in here albeit not in that detail. Zone 2 is purely aerobic. pure nasal breathing is a way to ensure you stay in that purely aerobic zone, although there is more to it than just that.
Posted on 10/30/23 at 6:59 pm to Aubie Spr96
A lot of stuff I’ve seen lately saying if you are full committed to zone 2 then start using a treadmill
It’s just extremely hard when hit the concrete esp when you first start
My runs are usually zone 3 for baseline 9-9:30 pace at 150-155 HR when I’m doing 3+ miles
Most my zone 2 is on my concept 2 rower
It’s just extremely hard when hit the concrete esp when you first start
My runs are usually zone 3 for baseline 9-9:30 pace at 150-155 HR when I’m doing 3+ miles
Most my zone 2 is on my concept 2 rower
This post was edited on 10/30/23 at 7:04 pm
Posted on 10/30/23 at 8:35 pm to StraightCashHomey21
Starting to think the same. Gonna see how morning runs go with the weather change.
ETA: 4 miles on the flattest course I can find near me, 11:53/mile @ 124HR. That was tolerable.
ETA: 4 miles on the flattest course I can find near me, 11:53/mile @ 124HR. That was tolerable.
This post was edited on 10/31/23 at 8:03 am
Posted on 10/31/23 at 4:49 pm to Aubie Spr96
Whats the overall end goal to be so focused on staying in this 80/20 zone 2 training? over the past year beyond your vo2 max slightly increasing what else was achieved?
Posted on 10/31/23 at 5:32 pm to ks_nola
Supposedly...... It increases efficiency and allows for a greater VO2 max and speed.
There's a lot of information out there about it.
There's a lot of information out there about it.
Posted on 11/1/23 at 7:21 am to Aubie Spr96
quote:
It increases efficiency and allows for a greater VO2 max and speed.
The endurance you have isn't linear with heart rate. I can maybe run 1 mile with 170 BPM HR, but can run 13.1 miles with 140 BPM. Training hard in Zone 2 then gets me 10 seconds per mile pace increase while staying below 140. May not do a ton for my 1 mile time, but just saved me 2+ minutes on my half marathon.
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