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Message
Best BTC/Crypto ETF or Fund
Posted on 6/5/24 at 8:44 am
Posted on 6/5/24 at 8:44 am
Title says it all. Tia
7
Posted on 6/5/24 at 9:01 am to GREENHEAD22
BlackRock has the best fund right now
IBIT
IBIT
Posted on 6/5/24 at 10:05 am to GREENHEAD22
The two best ETFs are BITO and BITX.
It's easy to prove that the Spot Bitcoin ETFs, even with no fees are underperforming Bitcoin by about 10% since January 11th. I was checking some numbers on this earlier in premarket today. Here is what I determined.
Bitcoin closed at $44,167.33 on January 1, 2024. The snapshot Bitcoin price I just noted was $70,889.55.
So as of that second, Bitcoin's year-to-date gain is 62.3%
BITO' year to date gain from yesterday including dividends is 61.3% but in a premarket snapshot BITO is up 0.67% so YTD for BITO is approximately $61.97%. Considering BITO's annual 0.95 fee, if you prorate it to today, BITO is almost exactly tracking Bitcoin's price year to date. Pretty impressive.
Now let's look at the two biggest Spot ETFs (excluding GBTC because it was still trading at a good discount on January 1st and even had a small discount until about a week after January 11th). Also note that Bitcoin gained about $2200 between January 1st to January 11th, or approximately 1.05%. So Bitcoin is up approximately 62.3% minus 1.05% = 61.25% since January 11th.
IBIT and FBTC are up 50.86% and 50.84% year to date (they started trading on January 11th, but I have accounted for that).
Including BITO's dividend, it is tracking Bitcoin almost exactly. (within 0.5% for the year). The ETFs are approximately 10.4% below Bitcoin year-to-date.
I took all of my figures including Bitcoin from Yahoo Finance. Remember, you can't take BITO's year to date gain off of Yahoo Finance's price chart for BITO because it only uses BITO's price without dividends. You have to go to the Financials tab for BITO on your phone and get the TOTAL BITO year-to-date gain.
On this Monday, June 10th, BITO's large $1.76 dividend is paid out. I think that will push BITO's year to date return above Bitcoin's year-to-date return since they are currently deadlocked.
In summary, BITO beats all of the Spot Bitcoin ETFs, and I think it is in a virtual tie with Bitcoin, but will surpass Bitcoin year to date on June 10th.
BITX is a 2X derivative. It is easily beating all ETFs and Bitcoin year-to-date even with decay. You need major ice in your veins to hold on to it in downturns. It's better to trade it during pullbacks and recoveries.
It's easy to prove that the Spot Bitcoin ETFs, even with no fees are underperforming Bitcoin by about 10% since January 11th. I was checking some numbers on this earlier in premarket today. Here is what I determined.
Bitcoin closed at $44,167.33 on January 1, 2024. The snapshot Bitcoin price I just noted was $70,889.55.
So as of that second, Bitcoin's year-to-date gain is 62.3%
BITO' year to date gain from yesterday including dividends is 61.3% but in a premarket snapshot BITO is up 0.67% so YTD for BITO is approximately $61.97%. Considering BITO's annual 0.95 fee, if you prorate it to today, BITO is almost exactly tracking Bitcoin's price year to date. Pretty impressive.
Now let's look at the two biggest Spot ETFs (excluding GBTC because it was still trading at a good discount on January 1st and even had a small discount until about a week after January 11th). Also note that Bitcoin gained about $2200 between January 1st to January 11th, or approximately 1.05%. So Bitcoin is up approximately 62.3% minus 1.05% = 61.25% since January 11th.
IBIT and FBTC are up 50.86% and 50.84% year to date (they started trading on January 11th, but I have accounted for that).
Including BITO's dividend, it is tracking Bitcoin almost exactly. (within 0.5% for the year). The ETFs are approximately 10.4% below Bitcoin year-to-date.
I took all of my figures including Bitcoin from Yahoo Finance. Remember, you can't take BITO's year to date gain off of Yahoo Finance's price chart for BITO because it only uses BITO's price without dividends. You have to go to the Financials tab for BITO on your phone and get the TOTAL BITO year-to-date gain.
On this Monday, June 10th, BITO's large $1.76 dividend is paid out. I think that will push BITO's year to date return above Bitcoin's year-to-date return since they are currently deadlocked.
In summary, BITO beats all of the Spot Bitcoin ETFs, and I think it is in a virtual tie with Bitcoin, but will surpass Bitcoin year to date on June 10th.
BITX is a 2X derivative. It is easily beating all ETFs and Bitcoin year-to-date even with decay. You need major ice in your veins to hold on to it in downturns. It's better to trade it during pullbacks and recoveries.
Posted on 6/5/24 at 10:09 am to GREENHEAD22
i bought Fidelity's... FBTC.
Posted on 6/5/24 at 11:07 am to finchmeister08
Have about 5% of the non-retirement portfolio in:
FIDELITY CRYPTO INDUSTRY AND DIGITAL PAYMENTS ETF (FDIG).
FDIG tracks an index of global companies related to cryptocurrency, blockchain technology, and digital payments processing, selected based on revenue derived from the relevant themes, and weighted by average daily trading volume.
1 Year: 56.31%
FIDELITY CRYPTO INDUSTRY AND DIGITAL PAYMENTS ETF (FDIG).
FDIG tracks an index of global companies related to cryptocurrency, blockchain technology, and digital payments processing, selected based on revenue derived from the relevant themes, and weighted by average daily trading volume.
1 Year: 56.31%
This post was edited on 6/5/24 at 11:10 am
Posted on 6/5/24 at 11:09 am to 98eagle
One question (I don’t follow bitcoin or its ETFs and derivatives), are these ETFs that pay dividends like “regular” equities that pay dividends, in that the price drops by the amount of the div when they go ex-div?
I understand that the price may recover subsequently, but as the folks who tried to get cute with a div play on CBRL found out, that’s not always the case. So just curious how these particular ETFs work.
Anyway, thanks for that analysis.
I understand that the price may recover subsequently, but as the folks who tried to get cute with a div play on CBRL found out, that’s not always the case. So just curious how these particular ETFs work.
Anyway, thanks for that analysis.
Posted on 6/5/24 at 11:51 am to GREENHEAD22
I'd prefer Fidelity's FBTC because they control their own coins. All the others have a 3rd party custodian.
Posted on 6/5/24 at 11:54 am to Jag_Warrior
quote:No, not even "Regular" equities all pay dividends. Since bitcoin isn't a business spinning off profits that are used to pay a dividend, there is none. Think Amazon, Nvidia, Berkshire, Tesla, etc all pay no dividend. However a better comparison would be ETFs of commodities. Those don't pay dividends because the commodity isn't an underlying business, it strictly tracks the price of the commodity
One question (I don’t follow bitcoin or its ETFs and derivatives), are these ETFs that pay dividends like “regular” equities that pay dividends, in that the price drops by the amount of the div when they go ex-div?
This post was edited on 6/5/24 at 11:56 am
Posted on 6/5/24 at 12:03 pm to Jag_Warrior
quote:
One question (I don’t follow bitcoin or its ETFs and derivatives), are these ETFs that pay dividends like “regular” equities that pay dividends, in that the price drops by the amount of the div when they go ex-div?
I understand that the price may recover subsequently, but as the folks who tried to get cute with a div play on CBRL found out, that’s not always the case. So just curious how these particular ETFs work.
Yes, BITO's dividends are subtracted from the prior trading day's closing price on market open on the ex-dividend date. The dividend is pretty large so it makes the price chart look bad without the dividends included. This really bothers a lot of people. But if you look at the TOTAL return for BITO in Yahoo's Financial tab on your phone, you see the true total return that includes the cumulative reinvested dividends.
Everyone should do their own research and investigation to validate before investing. I've just reported what I am coming up with. My numbers aren't exact because Bitcoin and all of these ETFs are changing prices every second during trading hours. I do believe my numbers are pretty accurate though.
Posted on 6/5/24 at 12:26 pm to 98eagle
I didn't read your full post but it should be important to inform them that BITO is not one of the standard spot bitcoin ETFs. Its performance is driven by investments in futures contracts, it does not buy spot bitcoin like the others. Therefore there is no guarantee that it tracks with bitcoin (it usually does but technically not guaranteed since it isn't a spot ETF).
Posted on 6/5/24 at 1:30 pm to TigerTatorTots
Good point. ProShares BITO ETF works by ProShares trading Bitcoin futures contracts that they are rolling going forward. By law the money that ProShares makes above their fees has to be paid out in distributions to shareholders. So no guarantees.
This post was edited on 6/5/24 at 1:34 pm
Posted on 6/5/24 at 2:31 pm to I Love Bama
Posted on 6/5/24 at 3:37 pm to Fat Bastard
By far the highest fees of them all - stay away IMO
Posted on 6/6/24 at 8:22 am to TigerTatorTots
I agree, stay away from GBTC, even though I greatly profited from it from 2016 to mid January 2024.
Grayscale continually pissed off it's investors and the Bitcoin community for years with it's high 2% and now 1.5% fees. Plus they seemed to be very happy over the years that the SEC kept denying the Spot ETFs and keeping GBTC as the only game in town. They were smug acting like they were fighting to become an ETF and promised to lower their fees, but everyone knew that they were really more than happy to keep getting their 2% fee with no competition.
Many people also believe that Grayscale muted Bitcoin's price rise once the ETFs were approved in January by keeping their fees so high at 1.5% and causing the massive and continual GBTC outflows which created a lot of Bitcoin selling pressure. They had and still have a lot of trapped investors in taxable brokerage accounts who don't want to sell GBTC and endure high taxes so they are held hostage paying high fees by greedy Grayscale.
All of my GBTC was in IRAs so I was able to escape the greedy fees and disgust I had.
Grayscale continually pissed off it's investors and the Bitcoin community for years with it's high 2% and now 1.5% fees. Plus they seemed to be very happy over the years that the SEC kept denying the Spot ETFs and keeping GBTC as the only game in town. They were smug acting like they were fighting to become an ETF and promised to lower their fees, but everyone knew that they were really more than happy to keep getting their 2% fee with no competition.
Many people also believe that Grayscale muted Bitcoin's price rise once the ETFs were approved in January by keeping their fees so high at 1.5% and causing the massive and continual GBTC outflows which created a lot of Bitcoin selling pressure. They had and still have a lot of trapped investors in taxable brokerage accounts who don't want to sell GBTC and endure high taxes so they are held hostage paying high fees by greedy Grayscale.
All of my GBTC was in IRAs so I was able to escape the greedy fees and disgust I had.
Posted on 6/6/24 at 9:09 am to TigerTatorTots
quote:
No, not even "Regular" equities all pay dividends.
Thanks for the reply, but you misunderstood my question. The question concerned the specific (dividend paying) ETF type that he mentioned.
98eagle’s reply answered my question. Thanks dude.
Posted on 6/6/24 at 10:21 am to 98eagle
I still have an exuberant amount of GBTC in taxable accounts that I am sitting on because I don't want to take the tax hit on the gains just to swap them over to FBTC
This post was edited on 6/6/24 at 10:22 am
Posted on 6/8/24 at 8:14 pm to 98eagle
Good gouge
Posted on 6/9/24 at 7:16 am to Fat Bastard
quote:
what is your opinion on GBTC
cancer
Posted on 10/15/24 at 10:33 am to 98eagle
Is BITO still a good investment?
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