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History discussion: radical government changes/revolutions
Posted on 8/15/17 at 7:08 am
Posted on 8/15/17 at 7:08 am
So somewhat a change in pace of the current shite show discussion, but somewhat related.
The current antifa and related movements are largely pro Marxist and do not attempt to hide it. A large portion of "normal" youth today are unapologetic marxists as well. I'm in my late 20s and have multiple friends I keep up with sporadically that fall into this category and it's honestly pretty shocking.
So my question is, are there examples in history of radical changes in government or revolutions that came about during economic prosperity? What were the circumstances of Scandinavian countries coming into their current states as it relates to government policies?
The major historical players in socialism all seem to be results of violent overthrowing events, but typically what led to those events were crippling economic circumstances or war torn regions. The fringe movement we see in the United States seems to be a complete fabrication by comparison.
So are there other nations comparable to the current projectory we seem to be on? It might seem far fetched and the older population would obviously have to die off and the youth maintain their views as they age, but we are closer than you would think given a candidate like Bernie Sanders garnering as much support as he did.
Maybe it's the symptoms of "but we're gonna do it the right way this time guys I swear" communism that has eluded us for so long and we don't recognize it because "there are no examples of real socialism."
Thanks in advance.
The current antifa and related movements are largely pro Marxist and do not attempt to hide it. A large portion of "normal" youth today are unapologetic marxists as well. I'm in my late 20s and have multiple friends I keep up with sporadically that fall into this category and it's honestly pretty shocking.
So my question is, are there examples in history of radical changes in government or revolutions that came about during economic prosperity? What were the circumstances of Scandinavian countries coming into their current states as it relates to government policies?
The major historical players in socialism all seem to be results of violent overthrowing events, but typically what led to those events were crippling economic circumstances or war torn regions. The fringe movement we see in the United States seems to be a complete fabrication by comparison.
So are there other nations comparable to the current projectory we seem to be on? It might seem far fetched and the older population would obviously have to die off and the youth maintain their views as they age, but we are closer than you would think given a candidate like Bernie Sanders garnering as much support as he did.
Maybe it's the symptoms of "but we're gonna do it the right way this time guys I swear" communism that has eluded us for so long and we don't recognize it because "there are no examples of real socialism."
Thanks in advance.
3
Posted on 8/15/17 at 7:17 am to LiterallyPolice
quote:
The fringe movement we see in the United States seems to be a complete fabrication by comparison
It is odd when you consider that on balance the US population is the most well off group ever in mankind's history.
We have the richest 'poor' in the world.
It seems we are so well off and our boredom so deep that people are having to create make-believe struggles.
Posted on 8/15/17 at 7:17 am to LiterallyPolice
To further clarify: how could these fringe types expect to achieve their goals when the current system is "working" (at least comparatively with virtually every other system we've seen through history).
The nations they idolize (once again Scandinavia): when is the last time each of them could be considered "conservative", and was there ever a swift dramatic shift in politics, which is what would be required here to bring about their goals in anywhere close to a timely manner?
The nations they idolize (once again Scandinavia): when is the last time each of them could be considered "conservative", and was there ever a swift dramatic shift in politics, which is what would be required here to bring about their goals in anywhere close to a timely manner?
Posted on 8/15/17 at 7:20 am to LiterallyPolice
for everyone of those idiots you see protesting on tv there are millions of true americans who don't agree with it. it's not gonna happen here.
Posted on 8/15/17 at 7:21 am to TrueTiger
quote:
It seems we are so well off and our boredom so deep that people are having to create make-believe struggles.
Exactly
But are the ones pulling the strings simply ignorant of the circumstances required for such a radical change in ideology for a country so entrenched in conservative ideals and economic independence? Is it simply a boredom and fad movement like you state?
You would think the true believers would lurk in the shadows and wait to play their hand during a time of true despair.
Posted on 8/15/17 at 7:23 am to TrueTiger
quote:
It seems we are so well off and our boredom so deep that people are having to create make-believe struggles.
"Since the end of the Cold-War it's all bureaucracy and no mission" is a quote I've always liked.
These people were raised by people who were born and raised in the 60/70s. The last generation fought for social change. Protesting and rallying was the entire culture for a generation. They won pretty much everything they fought for but they raised their kids to keep fighting. So now it's all bureaucracy and no mission. These people don't have a goal.
Go ask someone at that women's march or a BLM event what their goals are. What specifically they are angry about. You never get a real answer because there isn't an answer. It's all outrage with no injustice. All bureaucracy with no mission. It's people who spend their time bussed in from different places just to cause trouble. And in Virginia they finally got what they wanted, someone died. Mark my words it'll happen a couple more times and you'll see a federal push to restrict speech.
These protestors are an ignorant and easily manipulated mob of sheep being played like marionettes and they can't even see it. Pawns pretending to be Kings who will be cast aside and sacrificed without a second thought.
This post was edited on 8/15/17 at 7:28 am
Posted on 8/15/17 at 7:26 am to LiterallyPolice
quote:
You would think the true believers would lurk in the shadows and wait to play their hand during a time of true despair.
One of their biggest problems right now is that the internet changed the world. And they're trying to get it under control. They're putting the pieces in place so they can get the tools they need to get the power or information back in their hands.
The power to control information is true power and the internet has erroded that
Posted on 8/15/17 at 7:29 am to Kashmir
quote:
for everyone of those idiots you see protesting on tv there are millions of true americans who don't agree with it. it's not gonna happen here.
Every logical thought I have leads me to agree with you. However we have mobs of people tearing down statues unchecked, and rioting in the streets during a time of plenty. I just can't think of anything in history to compare it to, and really can't predict the ramifications for 2-3 decades from now, and if these people will eventually grow out of it.
Posted on 8/15/17 at 7:38 am to LiterallyPolice
i see you point but believe/hope the millions in flyover country will rise up and stop this insanity before peacefully succumbing to it.
Posted on 8/15/17 at 7:43 am to Kashmir
I hope so too, and I think Breesus' long post was spot on.
But to point out something from his post he mentions that their parents were fighters (though they had real things to fight for) and they planted the seed in their children. Will this seed not continue to grow on to the next generation?
It's becoming more and more clear in my mind that we are heading to a breaking point and I like you hope that middle America will stop it. Would that take war and a splintering of the country though is the question (and to be clear I am not beating the drums of civil war in the next few years, but think it is not out of the question in 20-30 years if things don't change).
But to point out something from his post he mentions that their parents were fighters (though they had real things to fight for) and they planted the seed in their children. Will this seed not continue to grow on to the next generation?
It's becoming more and more clear in my mind that we are heading to a breaking point and I like you hope that middle America will stop it. Would that take war and a splintering of the country though is the question (and to be clear I am not beating the drums of civil war in the next few years, but think it is not out of the question in 20-30 years if things don't change).
Posted on 8/15/17 at 7:50 am to LiterallyPolice
as long as the 2nd amendment is upheld, they don't have a chance. take that away and america as we know it will crumble.
Posted on 8/15/17 at 7:55 am to LiterallyPolice
quote:
The nations they idolize (once again Scandinavia):
Well those Scandanavian countries they idolize aren't even socialist. The Nordic Model is also called Nordic capitalism, and was adopted for the primary purpose of investing in citizens in such a way that they could be competitive on the world stage. Given the very small populations of each Nordic country, the scale and design of the system is much easier to implement. The fact that the system is still based off the free market capitalism as a way of reinvesting wealth is lost on many people who look to Scandnavia as a model.
Posted on 8/15/17 at 7:57 am to crazy4lsu
Very small and very homogeneous populations.
Posted on 8/15/17 at 7:58 am to Kashmir
quote:
It seems we are so well off and our boredom so deep that people are having to create make-believe struggles.
This is very accurate. These people all need a "struggle" to believe in. Then they protest/crusade for it and pat themselves on the back for all the good that been done and changes they have made.
But, since there are no obvious, real issues to tackle, they instead focus on BS issues.
Just think if these crusaders were to focus their energies on solving a real human crisis like what in happening in the inner cities. But that would be too difficult, and the Dem party would not benefit.
Posted on 8/15/17 at 8:02 am to ScottFowler
quote:
Just think if these crusaders were to focus their energies on solving a real human crisis like what in happening in the inner cities.
You ever seen a massive protest with 24 hour news coverage, presidential comments, and politicians comments about the education system in the projects and black on black crime due to a cycle of poverty?
No.
You ever seen a massive protest with 24 hour news coverage, presidential comments, and politicians comments about what costumes people are wearing to Halloween parties on college campuses?
Yes.
Think about how backwards and twisted that is.
This post was edited on 8/15/17 at 8:07 am
Posted on 8/15/17 at 8:08 am to roadGator
Who don't have a military to fund
Posted on 8/15/17 at 8:10 am to Breesus
I remember catching a small memorial vigil in Youngstown last year over some 20 year old that was ran over.
A car drove threw it, hit five people.
More of a remembrance vigil than a protest.
A car drove threw it, hit five people.
More of a remembrance vigil than a protest.
Posted on 8/15/17 at 3:22 pm to Breesus
quote:
Go ask someone at that women's march or a BLM event what their goals are. What specifically they are angry about. You never get a real answer because there isn't an answer. It's all outrage with no injustice.
Indeed.
You generally come away with the understanding that they are very unhappy and that they believe that if everyone followed their way a utopian world would magically spring up.
But you never get specifics.
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