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Message
Are you a "tallow truther"?
Posted on 12/3/24 at 10:51 am
Posted on 12/3/24 at 10:51 am
It's amazing how lockstep the official narrative is from the usual sources. Also have to love Walter Willet being essentially the only source quoted.
LINK
quote:
Robert F. Kennedy Jr.’s latest spin on MAGA, “Make frying oil tallow again,” is surprisingly straightforward for a man who has spent decades downplaying his most controversial opinions. Last month, Kennedy argued in an Instagram post that Americans were healthier when restaurants such as McDonald’s cooked fries in beef tallow—that is, cow fat—instead of seed oils, a catchall term for common vegetable-derived oils including corn, canola, and sunflower. Americans, he wrote, are “being unknowingly poisoned” by seed oils; in his view, we’d all be better off cooking with solid fats such as tallow, butter, and lard. In a video that Kennedy posted on Thanksgiving, he deep-fries a whole turkey in beef tallow and says, “This is how we cook the MAHA way.”
Cardiologists shuddered at the thought. Conventional medical guidance has long recommended the reverse: less solid fat, more plant oils. But in recent years, a fringe theory has gained prominence for arguing that seed oils are toxic, put into food by a nefarious elite—including Big Pharma, the FDA, and food manufacturers—to keep Americans unhealthy and dependent. Most nutrition scientists squarely dismiss this idea as a conspiracy theory. But the movement probes some unresolved, fundamental questions about nutrition. Are saturated fatty acids—the kind in animal fat—actually dangerous? And are polyunsaturated ones—found in plant-derived oils—really all that great for your heart? The fact that these debates remain unsettled does not validate Kennedy’s view on fats, which represents a complete reversal of conventional health beliefs. But it does leave plenty of room for his philosophy to proliferate.
quote:
The second category alleges the harms of seed oil. Some tallow truthers claim that consuming too much omega-6, a polyunsaturated fatty acid commonly found in seed oils, allows it to outcompete its more healthful cousin, omega-3, which is found in nuts and fish. But, according to Willett, the body’s regulatory mechanisms prevent such imbalances, and viewing individual fatty acids as competitors is “an extreme oversimplification of what actually goes on in our metabolic system.” The physician Catherine Shanahan’s book Dark Calories, an exhaustive account of the arguments against seed oil, posits that polyunsaturated seed oils promote oxidative stress, which drives all disease. When I asked Shanahan, popularly known as Dr. Cate, why this was not reflected in the existing scientific literature, she questioned its credibility. “They haven’t seen all the data,” she told me. “They’ve only seen what we’ve been fed.” Another popular wellness influencer known as Carnivore Aurelius, who advocates for an all-meat diet, has claimed without evidence that seed oils are “toxic sludge” that disrupts the functioning of mitochondria.
LINK
12
Posted on 12/3/24 at 11:40 am to Big Scrub TX
I am anxious for lsu777 to weigh in,he’s pretty knowledgeable about all this.
My personal beliefs:
1-seed oils are bad,(I used to think they were good,down voted by lsu777,I researched it and came to conclusion they are awful).
2-tallow from corn fed food lot beef not so good.
3-tallow from organic grass fed beef is best.
4-cardiovascular disease is caused primarily by inflammation.
5-I also believe there is a large genetic component .I know families that have high percentage with CV disease.I come from a large family and virtually no CV disease.
6-smoking is probably the worst thing one can do for health.
last 20 years of my ICU career was taking care of bypass and angioplasty pts.,vast majority smoked or had a smoking history.
My personal beliefs:
1-seed oils are bad,(I used to think they were good,down voted by lsu777,I researched it and came to conclusion they are awful).
2-tallow from corn fed food lot beef not so good.
3-tallow from organic grass fed beef is best.
4-cardiovascular disease is caused primarily by inflammation.
5-I also believe there is a large genetic component .I know families that have high percentage with CV disease.I come from a large family and virtually no CV disease.
6-smoking is probably the worst thing one can do for health.
last 20 years of my ICU career was taking care of bypass and angioplasty pts.,vast majority smoked or had a smoking history.
Posted on 12/3/24 at 1:51 pm to Big Scrub TX
Been using grass fed tallow, ghee, and butter for the past 2 years. We may fry food once every 6 months though.
Having said that, McDonald’s used to have a concoction of tallow/ cottonseed oil. It was never solely tallow
Having said that, McDonald’s used to have a concoction of tallow/ cottonseed oil. It was never solely tallow
Posted on 12/3/24 at 2:46 pm to Big Scrub TX
I avoid “seed oils” but I’m really surprised this movement focuses on frying (mostly French fries) vs condiments/dressings.
I’d argue many people get their seed oils from salad dressing and condiments, rampant soy and canola.
I’d argue many people get their seed oils from salad dressing and condiments, rampant soy and canola.
Posted on 12/3/24 at 4:22 pm to LSUA 75
Based on inflammation alone seed oils are bad for you. Anyone who says they are ‘good’ for you or not harmful is an idiot.
Posted on 12/3/24 at 8:24 pm to Big Scrub TX
Tallow is actual animal fats and they are pretty healthy.
Relative to seed oils, natural animal fats are better. What’s the conspiracy here?
Relative to seed oils, natural animal fats are better. What’s the conspiracy here?
Posted on 12/3/24 at 8:53 pm to Big Scrub TX
Since I've cut out seed oils and replaced it with grass fed butters, my inflammation, especially in my lower back, has significantly decreased. That's not placebo, it's a significant difference.
Posted on 12/3/24 at 9:35 pm to theunknownknight
quote:Did you even read the "article"? It's a hit piece on animal fats and a hagiography of seed oils. There absolutely does appear to be a conspiracy to convince people that seed oils are good for you.
allow is actual animal fats and they are pretty healthy.
Relative to seed oils, natural animal fats are better. What’s the conspiracy here?
Posted on 12/3/24 at 9:36 pm to LSUfan20005
quote:I don't agree that the "movement" "focuses on frying".
I avoid “seed oils” but I’m really surprised this movement focuses on frying (mostly French fries) vs condiments/dressings.
Posted on 12/4/24 at 5:24 am to LSUA 75
There are no nutrition experts on this site
Posted on 12/4/24 at 6:24 am to Big Scrub TX
I hate that we live in an age where we legitimately have no idea who or what to believe.
Posted on 12/4/24 at 6:39 am to TigerFanatic99
I read about frying potatoes in seed oils causes a reaction that creates a very toxic chemical . I’ll try to find it.
Posted on 12/4/24 at 6:44 am to NewOrleansBlend
quote:
There are no nutrition experts on this site
That is false. There are some incredibly knowledgeable folks on this board.
Posted on 12/4/24 at 6:52 am to XenScott
Posted on 12/4/24 at 6:54 am to Big Scrub TX
There really no reason to use seed oils. Its negatives MAY be exaggerated but we will never know until we try something different. We definitely can see that something is wrong with the health of people in western countries that eat a significant amount of food processed with these products. I refuse to believe that there is a huge difference between the way people ate in 2004 vs 2024. There were maybe just a handful of overweight kids in my HS class back then. At Bama for undergrad, it was similar...look at kids and college students now. What is considered normal now was FAT back then and that was just a blink of time away.
One could argue, there were all these oils in our food back then. They would be right. My next point is that what we considered normal in 2004, would have been considered fat in 1984. There has been a slow steady process of obesity rising...and it seems to have taken off in the past 10 years. Something is wrong with the way we eat and the way we live.
One could argue, there were all these oils in our food back then. They would be right. My next point is that what we considered normal in 2004, would have been considered fat in 1984. There has been a slow steady process of obesity rising...and it seems to have taken off in the past 10 years. Something is wrong with the way we eat and the way we live.
This post was edited on 12/5/24 at 4:25 am
Posted on 12/4/24 at 6:55 am to LSUA 75
My opinion is it’s way way down the list of shite to care about but couple things, until you are below a true 15% BodyFat on a dexa, a 23+ on ffmi and have your diet/training on point consistently then it’s kind of a waste of time to major in the minors imo. But….
1) they do cause inflammation, every study shows that
2) studies show they do actually help overall for losing weight. Don’t ask me why, I dunno the mechanism
3) you shouldn’t be frying shite anyways if serious about health. If you are, doesn’t really matter what kind of oil you use, you are frying shite
4) tallow, bacon grease, clarified butter…are superior to cook with imo
I don’t get all hung up on shite that is way way way down the list to care about. I can’t stand the seed oil is the devil people mainly cause they are fat fricks who refuse to acknowledge it’s their fricking diet that is the main problem. Same with the HFCS people
In the end, if you are serious about health…how much seed oils are you really using? I mean you shouldn’t be frying foods, you shouldn’t be drenching shite in sauces or dressings etc
Should be baking, grilling, air frying, pan frying in cast iron with a little butter or tallow, etc
TLDR:
I mean I guess I can sum it up my opinion on this by saying this: if your diet is good, you won’t be getting much if any seed oils anyways so no reason to worry about it too much.
1) they do cause inflammation, every study shows that
2) studies show they do actually help overall for losing weight. Don’t ask me why, I dunno the mechanism
3) you shouldn’t be frying shite anyways if serious about health. If you are, doesn’t really matter what kind of oil you use, you are frying shite
4) tallow, bacon grease, clarified butter…are superior to cook with imo
I don’t get all hung up on shite that is way way way down the list to care about. I can’t stand the seed oil is the devil people mainly cause they are fat fricks who refuse to acknowledge it’s their fricking diet that is the main problem. Same with the HFCS people
In the end, if you are serious about health…how much seed oils are you really using? I mean you shouldn’t be frying foods, you shouldn’t be drenching shite in sauces or dressings etc
Should be baking, grilling, air frying, pan frying in cast iron with a little butter or tallow, etc
TLDR:
I mean I guess I can sum it up my opinion on this by saying this: if your diet is good, you won’t be getting much if any seed oils anyways so no reason to worry about it too much.
Posted on 12/4/24 at 7:55 am to scottydoesntknow
quote:
That is false. There are some incredibly knowledgeable folks on this board.
The Dunning Kruger effect is on full display here on the nutrition topic.
This place is also an echo chamber. It’s strange that everyone here that is anti-seed oil is pro saturated fat. You would think at least some of them would be promoting omega 3’s or MUFA’s in place of omega 6’s, which actually I has more of an evidence basis.
Posted on 12/4/24 at 7:55 am to Big Scrub TX
I'm not going to weigh in on the debate as I don't know much about it. However, that article is shite! It is written in pure propaganda form.
Attack the source not the claim
Conventional medical guidance?
Just like the food pyramid right?
Oh look! I found someone who agrees with me, and she just so happened to write and profit from a book paid for by big AG and Pharma!
Let me find a counter source to quote.........
Ah yes! I found an influencer!
This is a typical hack piece. After reading it, I am 100% convinced that seed oils must be terrible for us.
quote:
a man who has spent decades downplaying his most controversial opinions.
Attack the source not the claim
quote:
Conventional medical guidance has long recommended the reverse
Conventional medical guidance?
Just like the food pyramid right? quote:
The physician Catherine Shanahan’s book Dark Calories, an exhaustive account of the arguments against seed oil,
Oh look! I found someone who agrees with me, and she just so happened to write and profit from a book paid for by big AG and Pharma!
Let me find a counter source to quote.........
quote:
Another popular wellness influencer known as Carnivore Aurelius
Ah yes! I found an influencer!
This is a typical hack piece. After reading it, I am 100% convinced that seed oils must be terrible for us.
Posted on 12/4/24 at 8:05 am to NewOrleansBlend
quote:
It’s strange that everyone here that is anti-seed oil is pro saturated fat.
Im a guy who likes to come up with solutions that please everyone. Don’t like seed oils, don’t use them. Don’t like saturated fat of animal fat, use avocado and olive oil. Need high smoke point, use avocado. The bottom line is, olive oil and avocado oil are both healthier and better tasting than other seed oils. There’s literally no reason to use seed oils (whether you a tallow truther or not)
This post was edited on 12/4/24 at 8:07 am
Posted on 12/4/24 at 9:02 am to lsu777
quote:
In the end, if you are serious about health…how much seed oils are you really using?
Unless you're making your own salad dressing, mayonnaise, and pretty much every jarred sauce on the shelf, soybean oil is the first or second ingredient in 90% of them. Maybe people that are 'serious about their health' should be making their own everything, but that's not realistic for most of us.
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