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Started By
Message
re: Trouble Losing Weight
Posted on 1/14/23 at 9:16 pm to TigerInCbus
Posted on 1/14/23 at 9:16 pm to TigerInCbus
quote:
You really think 200g is “high protein”?
Yes, I do.
quote:
You’ll also find a lot of people who say to eat 1g protein/lb body weight or at least of LBM.
No doubt. But the numbers are all over the place. I have seen .6/lb to way more. It depends on the study and there is a lot more to it. Like how much can you really absorb at one time.
You presented it as a dietary fact. He should be eating 200g of protein a day, just like he should be drinking so much water. Its not that way. It's a good hack, if he can manage it, plus afford it.
quote:
Let me guess - you’re going to tell me I shouldn’t be eating red meat and eggs either?
You can eat whatever you want. I hope you are eating other stuff too.
2
Posted on 1/14/23 at 9:28 pm to brmark70816
This dude needs 200g protein a day minimum.
He can lower that as his body weight comes down but the risk of losing weight and being skinny fat is not worth the risk.
He can lower that as his body weight comes down but the risk of losing weight and being skinny fat is not worth the risk.
Posted on 1/14/23 at 9:34 pm to lsu777
quote:
Post a single study showing…here is a hint there aren’t any drawbacks and it has been proven absolutely safe for any adult that doesn’t already have a kidney condition to eat AT LEAST 4g per kg of bodyweight
Are we just going to totally ignore all of the digestive issues that can arise from it?
I can go research some others, but aren't there issues with energy (cutting out almost all carbs) and fatigue?
quote:
Umm yea because the research shows you should be eating around 1g per lbs of bodyweight in a cut, less in a bulk to maintain lean body mass and strength
Is it necessary? Cause that is how he put it. I'm sure that is the optimum and maybe he won't have any ill effects. But that is not how he put it. He stated that the guy needs to hit that daily.
quote:
Please don’t take this the wrong way but you are way way off on this
You rule this board. I have no delusions and I take almost everything you say as gospel.
But I see opinions all over the place on this and very, very few people are actively hitting those numbers daily. When pressed most admit its ok not to go that high. So, it isn't a requirement, we don't need that much daily.
Posted on 1/14/23 at 9:35 pm to pwejr88
This has turned into an argument more than helpful information
Posted on 1/14/23 at 11:33 pm to brmark70816
It’s absolutely ok not to go that high, it’s just not optimal and you run a risk of losing a good bit of muscle
Digestive issue…. Most get way more from sad or process foods. Are no real Ill effects
And I don’t rule anything, I have no power. Please, I beg you and everyone else, don’t ever feel like you can’t sneak your mind in here. All opinions are valid, some just have more scientific backing behind them
I’m nothing but a 40 year old washed up meat head dad trying to stay in shape for his kids who lifts in a garage. Nothing special promise that
Digestive issue…. Most get way more from sad or process foods. Are no real Ill effects
And I don’t rule anything, I have no power. Please, I beg you and everyone else, don’t ever feel like you can’t sneak your mind in here. All opinions are valid, some just have more scientific backing behind them
I’m nothing but a 40 year old washed up meat head dad trying to stay in shape for his kids who lifts in a garage. Nothing special promise that
Posted on 1/15/23 at 4:32 am to lsu777
quote:
Nothing special promise that
Not at all. You are an incredible resource and you provide valuable information. Reading this board helped me make the necessary changes to lose/maintain weight. I'm appreciative of that.
quote:
It’s absolutely ok not to go that high, it’s just not optimal and you run a risk of losing a good bit of muscle
That is all I am trying to point out. It's not a requirement. I can only speak anecdotally. But I can't hit that number daily and it makes me miserable to try. So I wouldn't want him or anybody else to get discouraged and give up if that's not possible.
Posted on 1/15/23 at 12:17 pm to brmark70816
I don't think I presented anything as a dietary fact. Where did I tell anyone to eat a specific amount of protein?
Either way - I think that 1g/lb of body weight for most non-morbidly obese people is a good place to be. It helps to keep you satiated, requires more energy by the body to break down, and provides what you need to build muscle. I keep cooked meat in my fridge all the time so that I can just grab and go if I’m hungry. I easily hit 200g a day and every time I get blood drawn there are zero concerns.
Either way - I think that 1g/lb of body weight for most non-morbidly obese people is a good place to be. It helps to keep you satiated, requires more energy by the body to break down, and provides what you need to build muscle. I keep cooked meat in my fridge all the time so that I can just grab and go if I’m hungry. I easily hit 200g a day and every time I get blood drawn there are zero concerns.
Posted on 1/16/23 at 8:43 am to TigerInCbus
quote:
I don't think I presented anything as a dietary fact. Where did I tell anyone to eat a specific amount of protein?
Either way - I think that 1g/lb of body weight for most non-morbidly obese people is a good place to be. It helps to keep you satiated, requires more energy by the body to break down, and provides what you need to build muscle. I keep cooked meat in my fridge all the time so that I can just grab and go if I’m hungry. I easily hit 200g a day and every time I get blood drawn there are zero concerns.
this, 100% this
i wanted to bring something else up....bmark had a good point about getting discouraged....
upping protein is something OP just needs to strive for. slowly and methodically
dont use it as somehting that is discouraging, more a goal
because priortizing protein develops really good habits
outside of not eating while disctracted and eating very slowly, its the #1 habit for long term diet success.
so make it a goal but dont let not being perfect prevent you from being better today!!
Posted on 1/17/23 at 7:44 am to TigerInCbus
quote:
Either way - I think that 1g/lb of body weight for most non-morbidly obese people is a good place to be.
It's a lot and it's a large lifestyle change for many. Also I don't know if it's necessary.
I just watched this video by Greg Doucette (LINK It's about leanbeefpatty and her body image issues. Around 13:00ish he states that 1g/per lb is a lot for most people. .8 is optimal for muscle gain. He said that you will still gain muscle at .5, but will not be significant. So what would that make maintenance?
I am not saying that Doucette is the greatest authority. But he knows his stuff. Is he totally wrong?
Posted on 1/17/23 at 7:57 am to brmark70816
There has been meta analysis done of all the scientific studies on the topic, and no improvement in muscle synthesis or muscle protection in a deep cut occurs above 0.83 g/lb being extremely conservative (erring on the side of more protein). So you can go a little under 1g/lb sure.
Having said that, ~ 30% of the calories of protein are used in digesting it, people tend to overestimate how much they are eating, and it makes you full to chew it up and eat it. So if you aren’t ready super strict on tracking your diet, purposely adding more protein probably ends up being the simplest way to accelerate weight loss.
Having said that, ~ 30% of the calories of protein are used in digesting it, people tend to overestimate how much they are eating, and it makes you full to chew it up and eat it. So if you aren’t ready super strict on tracking your diet, purposely adding more protein probably ends up being the simplest way to accelerate weight loss.
Posted on 1/17/23 at 8:49 am to brmark70816
quote:
So what would that make maintenance?
you have missed MY point in this whole conversation. i am saying that if you want to lose weight, an easy way to do that is to increase your protein intake. it makes you feel fuller, your body uses more energy to break it down, and it contains a ton of essential nutrients.
this guy is talking about wanting to LOSE WEIGHT, he's not asking for the optimal requirement of protein to build muscle. protein both builds muscle, burns more energy to break down, and is harder for the body to store as fat. have you ever thought about why people lose weight when they go carnivore (not promoting carnivore, fyi)? it's because their caloric intake inevitably goes DOWN from the satiety that high protein foods cause and their body works harder to break down that protein. caloric deficit --> lose weight.
Posted on 1/17/23 at 10:24 am to Canuck Tiger
quote:
There has been meta analysis done of all the scientific studies on the topic, and no improvement in muscle synthesis or muscle protection in a deep cut occurs above
the mps part is true.....but you do gain more muscle and retain more muscle at 3g/kg its just the authors of the meta analysis determined it wasnt statistically relevant, but if you read the studies closely it was like 20-25% more, just not much in total mass and with the time frames of the studies mostly being 6-8 weeks it doesnt make a huge difference in that time frame.....over the course of a year or two though it does
Posted on 1/17/23 at 10:28 am to brmark70816
quote:
It's a lot and it's a large lifestyle change for many. Also I don't know if it's necessary.
I just watched this video by Greg Doucette (LINK ). It's about leanbeefpatty and her body image issues. Around 13:00ish he states that 1g/per lb is a lot for most people. .8 is optimal for muscle gain. He said that you will still gain muscle at .5, but will not be significant. So what would that make maintenance?
I am not saying that Doucette is the greatest authority. But he knows his stuff. Is he totally wrong?
he is not wrong per say....its just that he doesnt read the whole studies and just read the conclusions.
0.8 is optimal for muscle gain per the authors of most of the studies but if you dig deeper there are other things going on as i discussed above
but for a caloric deficiet you want more protein as it will help you hold onto muscle better
for maintenance 0.8 is fine though and honestly its fine in a cut, not optimal
the whole point though that Cbus was trying to make is over time its helathier to proiortize protein. so slowly ramp it up. its a good long term habit that leads to people keeping more weight off.
in the meantime dont let not being perfect or optimal get in the way of being better.
Posted on 1/17/23 at 10:41 am to lsu777
quote:
for maintenance 0.8 is fine though and honestly its fine in a cut, not optimal
Of your current weight or your target/goal weight?
If you have a 5'11 guy that should be 180, but weighs 220. Which would you do the % of?
Posted on 1/17/23 at 12:01 pm to brmark70816
usually i just say 1g per lbs of current weight just to be safe and ease of tracking
some will say goal weight for the same reasons
but if we are truely being technical its a measurement of to lean body mass. so it actually is like 0.8-1.2g per lbs of lean body mass but most people dont actually know their lean body mass. in a cut you would want to be more agressive
in your case, 180 would prolly be fine as the guy prolly only has 160lbs lean body mass at most. 220 would be better but like i said....dont let optimal stop you from being better today then yesterday and stop you from improving
so let say the guy you described came to me for help and he hadnt been lifting weights and is 35 years old
#1 i would put him on greyskull for fatloss template plus chins(or ring/fatman rows) and dips LINK
goal would be to make sure we get 10k steps per day.
#2 if he was really serious about diet but has trouble eating enough meat to get higher protien levels, i would put him on
calories- 2100
protein- 150g
fat- ~75g
Carbs- 200g
i would tell them, eat the meats you like, hopefully a little fattier cuts like beef or chicken thighs etc
for carbs
#1 potatoes(this is the most filling food according to most studies)
#2 white rice
#3 fruit
dont worry much about veggies. if you want them, eat them, if not dont freak and make life miserable chasing them.
i would tell them, create 2 or max 3 days of menus and prep on sundays & wednesdays. most people do best with 2 menus ime.
i would keep it simple. dont step on scale for 6 weeks, just focus on staying on the diet, getting the steps in and getting stronger.
after 6 weeks, step on scale or better yet inbody before and then again after 6 weeks and access progress. if you have lost more than 8 lbs, stay the course, less then up the T/Th cardio to 30min and raise protein to 175g, lower carbs to 175g.
simple as that.
some will say goal weight for the same reasons
but if we are truely being technical its a measurement of to lean body mass. so it actually is like 0.8-1.2g per lbs of lean body mass but most people dont actually know their lean body mass. in a cut you would want to be more agressive
in your case, 180 would prolly be fine as the guy prolly only has 160lbs lean body mass at most. 220 would be better but like i said....dont let optimal stop you from being better today then yesterday and stop you from improving
so let say the guy you described came to me for help and he hadnt been lifting weights and is 35 years old
#1 i would put him on greyskull for fatloss template plus chins(or ring/fatman rows) and dips LINK
goal would be to make sure we get 10k steps per day.
#2 if he was really serious about diet but has trouble eating enough meat to get higher protien levels, i would put him on
calories- 2100
protein- 150g
fat- ~75g
Carbs- 200g
i would tell them, eat the meats you like, hopefully a little fattier cuts like beef or chicken thighs etc
for carbs
#1 potatoes(this is the most filling food according to most studies)
#2 white rice
#3 fruit
dont worry much about veggies. if you want them, eat them, if not dont freak and make life miserable chasing them.
i would tell them, create 2 or max 3 days of menus and prep on sundays & wednesdays. most people do best with 2 menus ime.
i would keep it simple. dont step on scale for 6 weeks, just focus on staying on the diet, getting the steps in and getting stronger.
after 6 weeks, step on scale or better yet inbody before and then again after 6 weeks and access progress. if you have lost more than 8 lbs, stay the course, less then up the T/Th cardio to 30min and raise protein to 175g, lower carbs to 175g.
simple as that.
Posted on 1/17/23 at 12:26 pm to lsu777
Awesome write up. I appreciate it.
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