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Message
re: Harlem Berry reportedly signs "market-setting" NIL deal
Posted on 8/27/24 at 1:03 pm to LSBoosie
Posted on 8/27/24 at 1:03 pm to LSBoosie
It's cool and all
You'd think rich guys would get tired of paying kids close to the NFL minimum who haven't played a down of football yet.
But hey, if they wanna do dumb shite with their money, fine by me.
You'd think rich guys would get tired of paying kids close to the NFL minimum who haven't played a down of football yet.
But hey, if they wanna do dumb shite with their money, fine by me.
0
Posted on 8/27/24 at 4:54 pm to kengel2
quote:
To be fair, all of yall are pretending as well
Bingo
For the vast majority of us it’s 2nd hand (at best) info
Posted on 8/27/24 at 8:52 pm to dmart4215
I know he signed with local GC. Duplesis recently can’t be that ?
Posted on 8/27/24 at 9:18 pm to Gaston
What do you mean here? Your obviously a little more educated here than Joe Blown-who spends his Tuesday nights watching game film from last year…
Posted on 8/27/24 at 9:20 pm to DCtiger1
I’d beat too if my son was getting athletic scholarship … D1/2/naia whatever
Hell I just cut a $7500 check for tuition and room/board… after tops covered some….
Hell I just cut a $7500 check for tuition and room/board… after tops covered some….
Posted on 8/28/24 at 9:35 am to PP7 for heisman
quote:
Cooper Flagg (Duke basketball signee, likely #1 overall pick in the '25 NBA draft) just signed an NIL deal with New Balance. It has nothing to do with Duke or their collective. As a matter of fact, Duke is probably a little annoyed seeing as they're a Nike school.
Wouldn’t Duke become a New Balance school if Flagg was that good?
Posted on 8/28/24 at 9:52 am to Gaston
quote:
How TF does one sign an NIL deal to a place he hasn’t even signed a LOI to? He just got his formal offer 3 weeks ago.
HS students can have NIL deals. Each state may have some law/regulation on it. But know of at least 3 students locally that have done some stuff in the past year.
Posted on 8/28/24 at 12:22 pm to chalmetteowl
What shoes will Flagg wear at Duke Nike or New Balance? Wonder if Nike would care if he wore New Balance since they are a Nike school. Maybe New Balance can pay the fine for Duke.
Posted on 8/29/24 at 9:42 am to DallasTiger45
quote:
Not really sure why people are being dicks to Gaston. He shared his experience with NIL offers for his son…that’s all.
And I asked him a question about his interactions with staff, that is all. I acknowledged his perspective, and asked a genuine question, relax.
quote:
And we have guys getting on their high horse about “pay to play”, like it’s the 1980’s and they’re doing investigative work for the Dallas Morning News on SMU. Get a grip lol
High horse? I think you missed my point. The kids getting this type of money are very explicit with the schools that it is required to be taken seriously. Not everyone does this, which is why I asked.
Posted on 8/29/24 at 9:57 am to Gaston
quote:
How TF does one sign an NIL deal to a place he hasn’t even signed a LOI to?
It's absolutely wild to me how many people truly just don't have the slightest clue how NIL works lmao.
"How TF did Caleb Williams sign a deal with Beats By Dre before he even signed his rookie deal with the bears? He just got drafted a week ago!"
Posted on 8/29/24 at 10:13 am to Gaston
quote:
The two guys who have offered my son NIL were the CFOs of each football program
The CFOs? As in Chief Financial Officers? That's not a position that exists on a college football staff lol.
If you're referring to the CFOs of the athletic department or the collective, (a) that's a different thing than being part of the "football program" itself, and (b) what you described is blatantly illegal under the current rules.
On the second point: While it's true that a lot of the restrictions on school/athletic department support/affiliation with collectives were rolled back, (a) that didn't become effective until August 1, and (b) it still only permits the school/program/athletic department to facilitate/support deals with current student-athletes and prospective student-athletes who have already signed an NLI
Posted on 8/29/24 at 10:33 am to Gaston
quote:
Never thought about outside companies…need to do research.
The collectives seem more cut and dry.
Even if only on paper, the collectives themselves still rely on outside companies to create "real" NIL deals. The entire existence of collectives--that is, "companies" that exist solely for the purpose of paying kids to play sports at a particular school--is predicated on the "record label"/"publishing house" business model.
Technically, as a general rule, a deal signed with a collective assigns to the collective the student-athlete's future NIL earnings (or some portion of them) in exchange for an up-front payment (an "advance"). For actual contracts of this type (i.e. not contracts that are simply masquerading as this sort of deal), this means that the income streams generated by the book/album go to the publisher/record label until the advance has been paid back, at which point the writer/band begins to receive a percentage of future revenues (or a higher percentage than before, depending how the deal is structured). With NIL collectives, though, the "advance" actually IS the payment. Perhaps in some cases the contracts are actually enforced as written, but largely they just provide a framework for the money people to make things work on paper so that the kid can get paid for playing the sport.
In other words: If it wasn't for "outside companies", there would be no theoretical justification for collectives to even exist - at that point, they'd just be charities that donated money to people who just so happened to be high-level college athletes, and they wouldn't fly under the current NCAA rules. Everybody knows that's how things are really working anyway, but this structure give plausible deniability.
(As a side note: I'm almost certain that a significant money-laundering opportunity exists somewhere in this current paradigm. The collectives have to have some form of "money coming in" from phony or quasi-phony NIL deals, which means the companies giving out those phone or quasi-phony deals are accounting for an expense that may or may not actually exist. Hmmm...)
Posted on 8/29/24 at 10:52 am to LifeAquatic
The CFO is the one who sat us down and explained the payment structure of the athletic scholarship…so yes, technically he’s the CFO of the athletic department. Then he says there are tiers to the NIL payments, those payments are monthly based…blah blah blah…but they’re not saying what your value is (the collective uses NFL value structure…). Tells you when those payments start…then says apparently they’ll be profit sharing checks of similar value or relative of relative tier to your NIL. Who knows?
I guarantee you they aren’t breaking the rules for a high school kicker. There are so many rules…when we can talk to a coach who travels down to see my son…doesn’t even make sense. You travel 10 hours to watch him kick and we can’t go eat lunch?
I guarantee you they aren’t breaking the rules for a high school kicker. There are so many rules…when we can talk to a coach who travels down to see my son…doesn’t even make sense. You travel 10 hours to watch him kick and we can’t go eat lunch?
This post was edited on 8/29/24 at 10:56 am
Posted on 8/29/24 at 10:58 am to Gaston
quote:
No offers is about $100k for your first year in the SEC. That’s if the profit sharing check equals the NIL one…which was the estimate. Will go up from there.
What are you even trying to say, here? Are you saying that a player with no NIL offers can expect to make $100k in their first year in the SEC, by virtue of revenue-sharing? Because you may not be aware but there *is no* revenue sharing yet, and there almost certainly wont be revenue sharing when the 2025 class are freshmen, either.
Also, going back to your prior comment that the person going over all the numbers is the "CFO of the football team": If this (the 100k/profit sharing/etc comment) is what you were referring to, then your initial comment was totally irrelevant to the conversation. Talking to prospective student athletes about the *possibility* of future revenue-sharing and about what the program is doing to prepare for it is NOT the same as hammering out NIL deals. The former is very much within the purview of someone within the program; the latter is not.
quote:
Berry probably gets that a visit
My brother in christ, there is nobody who is getting anything even in the ballpark of $100k merely to visit a school. If this were the case, Jahkeem Stewart would already be a multimillionaire
This post was edited on 8/29/24 at 10:59 am
Posted on 8/29/24 at 11:03 am to LifeAquatic
Fuk man.
The school pays you ~$25k/yr for the scholarship if you live on campus (required first year), then ~$35k/yr after. Broken up and paid at the beginning of each semester (summer too).
NIL has tiers…$3k/mo is the lowest tier. They pay you these for 11 of the 12 months.
“We expect profit sharing to be of equal value to your NIL, but nothing is set in stone yet.”
So for the lowest tier football player they will get $90k+/yr if profit sharing equals your NIL.
The school pays you ~$25k/yr for the scholarship if you live on campus (required first year), then ~$35k/yr after. Broken up and paid at the beginning of each semester (summer too).
NIL has tiers…$3k/mo is the lowest tier. They pay you these for 11 of the 12 months.
“We expect profit sharing to be of equal value to your NIL, but nothing is set in stone yet.”
So for the lowest tier football player they will get $90k+/yr if profit sharing equals your NIL.
This post was edited on 8/29/24 at 11:05 am
Posted on 8/29/24 at 11:23 am to Gaston
quote:
Instead of teams having a bunch of walk on specialists and a few scholarships…looks like next year you’ll only scholarship say 6 specialists (2 punter, 2 kickers, and 2 snappers) total and that’s it. Makes choosing who gets those much more important.
This doesn't make any sense and is in fact the exact opposite of reality.
Currently, most programs have **maybe** their #1 kicker, #1 punter, and #1 longsnapper on scholarship - and occasionally not even that. Moreover, even for programs that maintain scholarships for all their specialists as a rule, it's pretty common for those guys to have started out as walk-ons or PWOs and only later to have earned the scholarship. The very best of the best HS specialists get offers out of HS, and after that it's either an arranged marriage with some overseas kicking/punting academy or a guy who starts out as a PWO and earns his scholarship later.
With the rules change, teams are going to have MORE scholarships to give to specialists. Rather than gambling your full allotment of "kicker scholarships" on a single guy, which is a crapshoot when it comes to kickers especially (seriously - go look at the history of college kickers who have been drafted, vs how many of the best nfl kickers were undrafted), programs will be able to take multiple bites at the apple without having to entice a kid to start off as a PWO.
The fact is that the vast majority of top-half-of-SEC, championship-hopeful programs can't find anywhere close to 105 guys who are championship-caliber players (or potential championship-caliber players) who want to come to their school - so kickers and punters will by far be the lowest-hanging fruit in terms of improving the team that actually takes the field each saturday using the last however-many scholarships. The odds that your 2nd or even 3rd kicker might wind up being a material, game-result-affecting upgrade over the kicker you evaluated most highly out of HS are WAY higher than the odds that, say, the 20th or 21st offensive lineman will wind up not only making your top 5 but being such a significant upgrade as to possibly change the outcome of games.
All this boils down to the fact that more scholarships means more scholarships for specialists, which in turn boils down to a reduced importance of which guy or guys you decide to give them to. The fact that it's hard to scout a kicker to a high level of confidence makes programs more reluctant to offer a scholarship to all but the very best kickers out of HS - because they damn well better work out if they're eating up a scholarship. But now there will be more end-of-roster scholarships to play with, which will reduce that reluctance. Simple math.
Posted on 8/29/24 at 11:38 am to LifeAquatic
Schools just simply won’t hold more than 3 scholarship kickers…most 2 I imagine. The 4th kicker at LSU is Aiden Corbello, a PWO. What do you think happens to him?
Specialists rooms were huge with PWOs…now they’ll be small with scholarships. With NIL they could pay your way, Aiden, and not burn a scholarship…now, they’ll just fill their, 2 or 3, scholarships for kickers and move on.
Punters were almost always PWO, gonna be strange…lots of transfers since a successful punter at a smaller school may be a better bet than a HS punter.
There were 550 kickers at my son’s last camp…there just simply won’t be that many in the future, IMO. With good grades and a top 100 ranking you could walk on…now, who knows?
Specialists rooms were huge with PWOs…now they’ll be small with scholarships. With NIL they could pay your way, Aiden, and not burn a scholarship…now, they’ll just fill their, 2 or 3, scholarships for kickers and move on.
Punters were almost always PWO, gonna be strange…lots of transfers since a successful punter at a smaller school may be a better bet than a HS punter.
There were 550 kickers at my son’s last camp…there just simply won’t be that many in the future, IMO. With good grades and a top 100 ranking you could walk on…now, who knows?
Posted on 8/29/24 at 11:52 am to Gaston
quote:
The school pays you ~$25k/yr for the scholarship if you live on campus (required first year), then ~$35k/yr after. Broken up and paid at the beginning of each semester (summer too).
You're using "pay" to mean 2 different things here. If you're talking about the value of the scholarship, then living on- versus off-campus doesn't matter, because the "payment" for someone living on-campus comes in the value of the housing provided. You get "more" money as an off-campus scholarship athlete because you're no longer being provided housing. You can either take the value of the housing via the housing itself, or you can take the value of the housing via money to put towards housing yourself.
In any event, if you're going to treat the value of the scholarship as akin to a "payment" here, then you have to be consistent with that treatment, otherwise--like with the housing vs housing stipend thing above--it becomes very difficult to decipher your comment. This will become relevant later.
quote:
NIL has tiers…$3k/mo is the lowest tier. They pay you these for 11 of the 12 months.
What? There's no limit on the highest or lowest amount for an NIL deal, nor is there any rule for payment schedule. Also, the lowest tier of NIL is nothing.
quote:
“We expect profit sharing to be of equal value to your NIL, but nothing is set in stone yet.”
So for the lowest tier football player they will get $90k+/yr if profit sharing equals your NIL.
This assumes that the adoption of a revenue-sharing model would not do away with the current scholarship model, which seems (to me) to very likely be a faulty assumption. Revenue-sharing means that the players will be considered employees - in which case the often-fictitious necessity of enrollment in school would no longer exist. Which likewise makes scholarships obsolete. Perhaps they will allow players to select to receive a portion of their total compensation via cost-of-attendance at the university, but it's unlikely to be a requirement. So if the revenue sharing slice for a given player is $35k, that essentially means $35k and nothing else - unless you were told that it would be the value of a scholarship+$35k, in which case the revenue-sharing slice will actually exceed the "lowest tier of NIL".
ALSO: Even accepting all of this, your comment makes two assumptions that are questionable at best. First: It assumes that we know the structure the revenue sharing will take. The odds that we get an equal-across-the-board model where every player has the same salary are miniscule, because such a model would solve virtually zero of the current problems (e.g. big programs poaching small programs' players by offering bigger under-the-table NIL deals). Instead, it'll probably have some degree of salary negotiation - and without knowing how much the best players can get paid, we can't know how much the lowest-level players will get paid. And second: It assumes that NIL will still exist in its same form once revenue-sharing comes into play, which is a preposterous assumption. I won't necessarily go so far as to call it a zero-sum game (e.g. if there are "max salaries" then im sure collectives will still come in to push offers over the top with additional money via NIL), but there is unquestionably an extent to which these two pools of money overlap.
Posted on 8/29/24 at 12:14 pm to Gaston
quote:
Schools just simply won’t hold more than 3 scholarship kickers…most 2 I imagine. The 4th kicker at LSU is Aiden Corbello, a PWO. What do you think happens to him?
You say "schools just simply won't hold more than 3 scholarship kickers".... but they're literally not doing that now, as you confirm when you note that LSU's 4th kicker is a walk-on. I'd be pretty shocked if there were many schools with even 3 kickers on scholarship.
quote:
Specialists rooms were huge with PWOs…now they’ll be small with scholarships.
Is your point that the overall roster cap will eliminate room for walk-on specialists?? I suppose that's theoretically possible, but it's really not how things are going to work. Right now, LSU has 112 guys listed as being on the "roster". The 7 guys who will get cut (a) will still be able to be "rostered" during offseason workouts/practices/camp up until games start, and (b) were never going to see the field once games started anyway. And there's a countervailing force pulling in the opposite direction - an increase of 20 scholarships. That's almost certain to have a bigger impact.
Even UGA (or whoever you think has the best roster in CFB) can't find enough non-specialists to fill 105 scholarship spots with guys who can actually play in the SEC. So those extra scholarships--or, at the very least, the last 8-10 of them--are very likely to go to specialists, who are difficult to find/scout but have disproportionate impact on the games when compared to an 8th offensive guard.
Here's the deal: If your concern is that specialists who otherwise might have had a chance to actually impact college football games will no longer be able to find roster spots, then your concern is misguided. If, however, your concern is that the 8th kicker will no longer be able to exchange his practice hours and his helpful effect on the team GPA for a box of team gear and a spot on the sideline, then... maybe? But why should that be a concern?
Posted on 8/29/24 at 12:16 pm to LifeAquatic
They pay you tax free money for having an athletic scholarship for football. The second you walk on campus for the summer semester you get a $5k check. The first day of Fall you get a $8k check, first day of spring you get a $8k check…that sort of thing.
NIL (the collective associated with the school) has tiers based on your value…you never go down, but you can go up. You get checks from them each month, no question, there is a minimum tier…assume you’re that minimum if you haven’t been told otherwise. These collectives have partnered with local charities and businesses and you have obligations when you take that check.
The whole fricking 105 scholarships IS because of profit sharing. There will be a monthly check…CFO we talked to thought football players would get 75% of the ‘profit sharing’. This is absolutely happening. Whatever tier you’re on, valuation wise, will be the same tier for profit sharing…maybe a relative value since the profit sharing total may be different from the total collective NIL pot.
What Harlem has is different than everything above.
NIL (the collective associated with the school) has tiers based on your value…you never go down, but you can go up. You get checks from them each month, no question, there is a minimum tier…assume you’re that minimum if you haven’t been told otherwise. These collectives have partnered with local charities and businesses and you have obligations when you take that check.
The whole fricking 105 scholarships IS because of profit sharing. There will be a monthly check…CFO we talked to thought football players would get 75% of the ‘profit sharing’. This is absolutely happening. Whatever tier you’re on, valuation wise, will be the same tier for profit sharing…maybe a relative value since the profit sharing total may be different from the total collective NIL pot.
What Harlem has is different than everything above.
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