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re: Creative ProStyle Offense - Difference btwn Bama & LSU (or Saban & Miles)
Posted on 11/8/15 at 6:49 pm to STEVED00
Posted on 11/8/15 at 6:49 pm to STEVED00
quote:
The talent gap is not that wide if at all. LSU is always in the top 5 as well.
This is true. Saying otherwise is a myth that has sprung up the last two seasons to take the heat off Miles for getting thumped by Saban.
Recruiting experts declare there is virtually no difference to speak of among the quality of the top six or seven recruiting classes, and very little among the top ten.
And ironically, the pumpers are on the horns of a dilemma.
Okay ... IF the gumps' talent level is so much greater, what does that say about Miles?
The pumpers said up until recently, that he was a "zany family man/good person" who was not as good a game day coach as Saban, but a tremendous recruiter.
What does it say about Miles if he is totally outclassed in what is supposed to be his strength?
2
Posted on 11/8/15 at 6:59 pm to STEVED00
quote:
LSU has as many or more players in the pros. Talent is not the issue.
Depth of talent is an issue. Alabama has a deeper talent pool. First line talent is usually pretty even on average. Putting players in the pros is a double edged sword, especially when so many go out early.
I don't recall the composite rating level for the past 5 years, but there were a couple of years that LSU was not in the top 5 if my memory serves.
Another talent problem is the offensive and defensive philosophies. Offensively they are similar. Bulldozer O-line and beast running backs. A burner or two at WR and a game manager at QB.
Defensively it is different. The former LSU DC wanted fast light D-linemen and linebackers. Alabama likes monsters up front. Both like shut down DB's.
Last night the LSU O-line had a problem with the monsters up front and the less than monstrous LSU D-line got pushed around.
No matter what all of the cry babies around here say, the game was won and lost in the trenches last night. Their big uglies pushed our big uglies round. If LSU had had the Alabama lines, they would have won. Plain and simple
Hopefully with a new recruiting tandem on the defensive side of the ball, things will get better.
Until then time to regroup and finish strong.
Posted on 11/8/15 at 6:59 pm to timlan2057
This isn't an anti-Miles thread. I really like him. I think he is a good coach and a great man. I just think he is extremely stubborn. He can stay the course and still avg 9/10 wins per year.
LSU is right there. He just has to release his strangle hold on the offense and allow some modern ingenuity and thought into it.
LSU is right there. He just has to release his strangle hold on the offense and allow some modern ingenuity and thought into it.
This post was edited on 11/8/15 at 7:01 pm
Posted on 11/8/15 at 7:00 pm to STEVED00
100% this - and those with knowledge of the game can see it.
Will Cam/Miles adapt? It may very well determine the extent of his legacy - and he's running out of time.
Will Cam/Miles adapt? It may very well determine the extent of his legacy - and he's running out of time.
Posted on 11/8/15 at 7:01 pm to STEVED00
You are blind, delusional or both if you think LSU has talent parity with 'Bama. They are way way more talented and better coached. In case you did not know, they have lost 7 of the last 10 and it keeps getting worse. Face it, Miles will NEVER beat Saban. Mark it down.
Posted on 11/8/15 at 7:24 pm to White Tiger
(no message)
Posted on 11/8/15 at 7:25 pm to STEVED00
quote:
You are blind, delusional or both if you think LSU has talent parity with 'Bama.
Not just my opinion. This is a national opinion. LSU and Bama have comparable talent.
Posted on 11/8/15 at 7:32 pm to STEVED00
quote:Fricking ridicullous. We got beat in the trenches, badly on defense late, horribly on offense throughout. That's not a "scheme" problem. We couldn't execute anything effectively, and neither could Saban/Kiffen if the situation were reversed.
Saban has a very similar philosophy but he has adjusted slightly to keep the upper hand. He didn't go to a gimmicky "spread" offense. Just a pro style set which includes easy throws for the QBs to gain confidence and formations/packages that create personnel mismatches.
Why was our O-line so overmatched? Now that's a legit question.
Posted on 11/8/15 at 7:52 pm to STEVED00
quote:Umm, I'm going to have to disagree a little on this.
Not just my opinion. This is a national opinion. LSU and Bama have comparable talent.
I'd say there might be a comparable number of elite players on each team, but the talent is in different places. I'd take Fournette over Henry, Dupre and Dural at WR, and I'd take our secondary over theirs. Heck, while Ragland is better than Beckwith, it's not an enormous margin, Beckwith has a lot of potential.
But it's different at the lines, and what makes matters worse is that Bama's lines are deep. None of them might make any all pro rosters, but they might have 6-8 d linemen who make at least the practice squad. Same thing with their O line, there's very little difference between their top guy and their 10th.
And while it's nice to have White, Tolliver, Adams and Mills back there, those guys don't make an impact on the game when Godchaux, Lacouture and Beckwith are wearing down, and Henry is bringing his 240+ lb arse at them full speed. Similarly, when there is massive penetration across the line, Fournette isn't going to get anywhere.
Posted on 11/8/15 at 8:22 pm to STEVED00
I think BAMA has more depth on the lines. We have lost to BAMA 5 times now...they changed their offense last year. So two times the new way and three times the old way.
There defense hasn't changed at all.
There defense hasn't changed at all.
Posted on 11/8/15 at 8:25 pm to TigerNlc
What games have we witnessed that LSU likes a running QB? I don't think we see that at all.
Posted on 11/8/15 at 8:34 pm to timlan2057
LSU recrutes very well, but one of the big differences between BAMA and LSU is
of the top 5 players at each position, especially on the O and D lines take two each year. That does make a difference. They work against each other during year trying to get playing time.
of the top 5 players at each position, especially on the O and D lines take two each year. That does make a difference. They work against each other during year trying to get playing time.
Posted on 11/8/15 at 8:36 pm to jumpup123
quote:
We have lost to BAMA 5 times now...they changed their offense last year. So two times the new way and three times the old way.
How exactly has their offense changed? They are still a power running first team. Then want to hammer you with their their string pf power backs. The only changes I have seem were not philosophical but mechanical. The adjustment has been to accommodate the talents of their QB. Much the same that the LSU adjusted to the talents of Mett.
The difference as I see is depth of talent.
Posted on 11/8/15 at 8:37 pm to Gray Tiger
Gray Tiger is correct. Its depth of talent that is the issue. Bama has an advantage over everyone in that area.
Posted on 11/8/15 at 8:41 pm to Scoob
LSU gets 5 and 4 star players and recently have received a #1 position player in each class. Look at Bama list of 5 and 4 star players and concentrate on the O & D line, and LB. They get 2 and sometime 3 of the top 5 position players at each position. That is the difference.
Posted on 11/8/15 at 8:50 pm to rmnldr
Amen!
Posted on 11/8/15 at 9:24 pm to TigerNlc
quote:
Saban recruits quarterbacks who can make clutch throws. Les likes more of a runner at quarterback.
No. Les recruits spread quarterbacks to come in and run the power-I. They take the snap out of the shotgun their whole hS career, and then Les sticks them under center and expects the pocket awareness of Peyton Manning if he's to have any success in the passing game. His options even if he does are highly limited.
Posted on 11/8/15 at 9:25 pm to Canwoodtiger
quote:
Gray Tiger is correct. Its depth of talent that is the issue. Bama has an advantage over everyone in that area
Yet not every team that Bama has played got dominated like LSU did. Believe it or not, coaching CAN make a difference if you're outgunned in terms of talent. Plenty of coaches have made a living off of minimizing talent gaps with excellent coaching abilities.
Posted on 11/8/15 at 9:26 pm to Gray Tiger
quote:
How exactly has their offense changed? They are still a power running first team. Then want to hammer you with their their string pf power backs. The only changes I have seem were not philosophical but mechanical. The adjustment has been to accommodate the talents of their QB. Much the same that the LSU adjusted to the talents of Mett.
The difference as I see is depth of talent.
They run out of multiple formations, and utilize those formations from both a passing and running stance.
LSU does not use multiple formations and pretty much shotgun = pass, I-formation = run. Very predictable.
Posted on 11/8/15 at 9:35 pm to STEVED00
quote:I like the premise, but I'll actually disagree here. as long as Saban is coach, bama will always be in an advantageous position to recruit superior talent, even moreso than what O and Steele are able to do. fyi, I know where we are in the recruitng rankings and I also know there's a long way to signing day.
The talent between the 2 schools is essentially a wash ( I would argue LSU actually has an advantage going forward with the additions of super recruiters Orgeron and Steele).
the talent disparity between the programs is actually a larger gap than you can imagine. While bama is taking blue chip, top tier talent at nearly every position, and addressing critical needs with every class, LSU hasn't done nearly as well of doing that.
I understand that we finished #2 in the rankings last year, but we failed to fill the most critical of needs at both LB and DL, namely the DT position. also, another issue that our recruiting has had is the propensity to take much less talented recruits instead of addressing an actual need (I'm gonna get killed for this, but I'm in the boat that believes foster moreau was not worthy of an offer).
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