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Message
re: Rant-Basketball: To defend Wade or not
Posted on 3/14/22 at 8:40 am to Bjorn Cyborg
Posted on 3/14/22 at 8:40 am to Bjorn Cyborg
quote:
The old "it's cool if he was a better cheater" comment.
Head coaches are supposed to be out of the loop. Evidently Will Wade was the loop.
1
Posted on 3/14/22 at 8:42 am to LSUMANINVA
I was his biggest supporter and frick the NCAA bandwagon the last two years.
However, after the recent stuff with his personal checking account came out, he had to go. No way around it. Dude was a dumbass
However, after the recent stuff with his personal checking account came out, he had to go. No way around it. Dude was a dumbass
Posted on 3/14/22 at 8:45 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Head coaches are supposed to be out of the loop. Evidently Will Wade was the loop.
Head coaches are supposed to not cheat. So, you either care about cheating or you don't.
I don't care about cheating, thus I did not want him to be fired.
Whether he was good or bad at cheating should be irrelevant.
The comments about "if he was just better at cheating, I would want him to stay" are fricking moronic.
Posted on 3/14/22 at 8:46 am to Bjorn Cyborg
quote:You can live in the real world or you can live in fantasy land. You choose fantasy land
Head coaches are supposed to not cheat. So, you either care about cheating or you don't.
I don't care about cheating, thus I did not want him to be fired.
Whether he was good or bad at cheating should be irrelevant.
Posted on 3/14/22 at 8:50 am to csorre1
quote:
UNC created bullshite classes for players to get easy grades and the NCAA said it was fine.
and what do you think a fair and just punishment would have been?
That's pennies on the dollar compared to other things the NCAA has handed out penalties for.
Hell, I don't know how old you are but I wasn't in college all that long ago, and bullshite classes to get your GPA up even for non athletes were very much a thing. It's a non story to me.
Posted on 3/14/22 at 8:51 am to lsupride87
Another poster put it best, Wade cheated on a level akin to cartoon stupidity. He deserved to get caught, and his actions are indefensible.
Edit: I agree that isn't the worst I have heard of, but it went on for two decades and there weren't even actual teachers for the classes. They called them "paper classes". The NCAA charged them with Lack of Institutional Control among other things. The NCAA ended up saying it was legal because the classes were open to non-athletes.
I don't know what they should have been charged with. I think the NCAA is a useless organization that doesn't deserve to have the right to levee charges on anyone. They don't have the resources to fairly hold everyone to the same standard. Their findings are extremely inconsistent and take so long to investigate that the people involved are often long gone by the time the NCAA investigation ends. They usually penalize players and coaches that were still recruits whenever the initial charges were levied.
Edit: I agree that isn't the worst I have heard of, but it went on for two decades and there weren't even actual teachers for the classes. They called them "paper classes". The NCAA charged them with Lack of Institutional Control among other things. The NCAA ended up saying it was legal because the classes were open to non-athletes.
I don't know what they should have been charged with. I think the NCAA is a useless organization that doesn't deserve to have the right to levee charges on anyone. They don't have the resources to fairly hold everyone to the same standard. Their findings are extremely inconsistent and take so long to investigate that the people involved are often long gone by the time the NCAA investigation ends. They usually penalize players and coaches that were still recruits whenever the initial charges were levied.
This post was edited on 3/14/22 at 9:25 am
Posted on 3/14/22 at 8:53 am to Bjorn Cyborg
quote:
Head coaches are supposed to not cheat. So, you either care about cheating or you don't.
What Wade did makes Wyle Coyote blush. Stupidity on a monumental level. Rookie, amateur and pathetic.
I find support for this Fraud to be unsettling.
Posted on 3/14/22 at 8:58 am to csorre1
quote:
That wasn't at all my point. He said that the NCAA doesn't do anything extra to protect the blue bloods. I simply pointed out an example of a time where they could have had any reaction whatsoever, but came back with a complete hand wave and an excuse why it was legal. I didn't compare to what Wade did at all. You did.
Again, to highlight my point, These other schools have plausible deniability. It would be up to the NCAA to prove intent. In the case of Will Wade there is no plausible deniability. There is no debate about what he did and why he did it. In this instance, there is no hypocrisy. None.
Posted on 3/14/22 at 8:59 am to csorre1
quote:
I think the NCAA is a useless organization that doesn't deserve to have the right to levee charges on anyone.
Wade would have been fired for lying to his own administration regardless of what happened.
Posted on 3/14/22 at 8:59 am to KC Tiger
In this case I agree. Wade was caught dead to rights. He is guilty, and he is an idiot.
Posted on 3/14/22 at 9:00 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
What Wade did makes Wyle Coyote blush. Stupidity on a monumental level. Rookie, amateur and pathetic.
I find support for this Fraud to be unsettling.
So, hypothetically, you find out Will Wade is a monumental cheater, but he is great at it and no one knows.
Do you think he should be fired?
Posted on 3/14/22 at 9:02 am to Bjorn Cyborg
quote:\
you find out Will Wade is a monumental cheater, but he is great at it and no one knows.
Do you think he should be fired?
Absolutely.
All successful coaches understand plausible deniability. Schools cannot be directly involved in paying athletes.
There is no defending Wade. He's a fraud.
This post was edited on 3/14/22 at 9:03 am
Posted on 3/14/22 at 9:05 am to Bjorn Cyborg
quote:No. I don’t care about cheating. I care about putting LSU in an awful indefensible position. Wade did the latter
So, hypothetically, you find out Will Wade is a monumental cheater, but he is great at it and no one knows.
Do you think he should be fired?
Posted on 3/14/22 at 9:08 am to LSUMANINVA
IMO, it was a risk/reward analysis (just like most things in life).
First, Wade's firing was completely justified. I'm not going to argue that LSU did not have reason for the decision. That said, did the "risk" (potentially significant sanctions from the NCAA) outweigh the "reward" (the most consistent success for the program in 30 years)? We all understand what Wade is accused of. But if you think he is the ONLY power conf. HC in America doing that, then I have a bridge to sell you. A THIRD program Bruce Pearl has been associated with just got sacntions...Pearl just signed a lifetime contract with Auburn because he's led them to their best era of basketball ever. There are text messages between Bill Self and a former Adidas runner, who was found guilty in the criminal trials, discussing payments for players (albeit indirectly). He, as well, recently signed a lifetime contract.
What LSU has done by firing Wade is to self impose a de facto "death penalty". The coaching staff will be gone. The recruits and signees for next year are no longer coming to LSU, and it is very likely all 13 scholarship players on the roster today will not return next season. It is entirely possible, perhaps likely, LSU will have to rebuild the program from the ground up. Literally starting with a roster of 0. A program that, until Wade's arrival, had only made it to 6 NCAA Tournaments in 24 years.
Had LSU stayed with Wade and defended the ALLEGATIONS of the NCAA would they still have been sanctioned in some manner? Probably. But would those sanctions have been as severe as what the AD has chosen to do? Which is destroy the program as we know it. It is hard to imagine a top-tier HC wanting to leave a good program to come to one who had 0 players on the roster for next season. That very well could be the case. So that means you may have to go to a second tier candidate...one that may have the program wading in the abyss for decades...as the program did in the 30 years prior to Wade.
Other schools have fought back. UNC literally had made up classes for basketball players. Nothing happened because they didn't roll over and fire Roy Williams. If you want to see what "cooperating" gets you, go listen to Mike Boyton, Oklahoma State's HC, tearful and impassioned press conference from early this season.
LINK
So perhaps if LSU fights back they eventually get hit with a postseason ban. So what? The program basically "banned" itself from 18 postseasons in the 24 years prior to Wade's arrival because of terrible coaching. Perhaps the "reward" in keeping Wade would be to weather the storm in exchange for consistently good basketball. Now, LSU re-enters the unknown of where the program will go. A program that is the second most profitable program on the campus.
Particularly in the age of NIL LSU could have fought back on the hypocrisy that is the NCAA. If/when you turn on the tournament this week, just know the NCAA is going to make over $700 million in revenue from it. Nearly 3/4 of of a BILLION dollars. A sum that accounts for nearly 80% of the NCAA's total revenue. ALL on the backs of players whom they have decided shouldn't be able to earn a fraction of that amount. And save the bullshite that college basketball (and football) are "amateur athletics". When you are signing huge TV contracts, bringing massive ticket sale, marketing, and merchandising revenue that generate hundreds of millisons of dollars, it is not an academic extracurricular, it is an ENTERTAINMENT BUSINESS (no matter how hard the NCAA likes to pretend it isn't in their own self interests).
So LSU's AD made is choice. He was justified in doing so. But now the onus is on him because he chose to end the most successful period in LSU basketball in three decades which will come to an end with LSU's next loss. And hey, perhaps he has a plan to quickly right the ship. I sure hope so.
First, Wade's firing was completely justified. I'm not going to argue that LSU did not have reason for the decision. That said, did the "risk" (potentially significant sanctions from the NCAA) outweigh the "reward" (the most consistent success for the program in 30 years)? We all understand what Wade is accused of. But if you think he is the ONLY power conf. HC in America doing that, then I have a bridge to sell you. A THIRD program Bruce Pearl has been associated with just got sacntions...Pearl just signed a lifetime contract with Auburn because he's led them to their best era of basketball ever. There are text messages between Bill Self and a former Adidas runner, who was found guilty in the criminal trials, discussing payments for players (albeit indirectly). He, as well, recently signed a lifetime contract.
What LSU has done by firing Wade is to self impose a de facto "death penalty". The coaching staff will be gone. The recruits and signees for next year are no longer coming to LSU, and it is very likely all 13 scholarship players on the roster today will not return next season. It is entirely possible, perhaps likely, LSU will have to rebuild the program from the ground up. Literally starting with a roster of 0. A program that, until Wade's arrival, had only made it to 6 NCAA Tournaments in 24 years.
Had LSU stayed with Wade and defended the ALLEGATIONS of the NCAA would they still have been sanctioned in some manner? Probably. But would those sanctions have been as severe as what the AD has chosen to do? Which is destroy the program as we know it. It is hard to imagine a top-tier HC wanting to leave a good program to come to one who had 0 players on the roster for next season. That very well could be the case. So that means you may have to go to a second tier candidate...one that may have the program wading in the abyss for decades...as the program did in the 30 years prior to Wade.
Other schools have fought back. UNC literally had made up classes for basketball players. Nothing happened because they didn't roll over and fire Roy Williams. If you want to see what "cooperating" gets you, go listen to Mike Boyton, Oklahoma State's HC, tearful and impassioned press conference from early this season.
LINK
So perhaps if LSU fights back they eventually get hit with a postseason ban. So what? The program basically "banned" itself from 18 postseasons in the 24 years prior to Wade's arrival because of terrible coaching. Perhaps the "reward" in keeping Wade would be to weather the storm in exchange for consistently good basketball. Now, LSU re-enters the unknown of where the program will go. A program that is the second most profitable program on the campus.
Particularly in the age of NIL LSU could have fought back on the hypocrisy that is the NCAA. If/when you turn on the tournament this week, just know the NCAA is going to make over $700 million in revenue from it. Nearly 3/4 of of a BILLION dollars. A sum that accounts for nearly 80% of the NCAA's total revenue. ALL on the backs of players whom they have decided shouldn't be able to earn a fraction of that amount. And save the bullshite that college basketball (and football) are "amateur athletics". When you are signing huge TV contracts, bringing massive ticket sale, marketing, and merchandising revenue that generate hundreds of millisons of dollars, it is not an academic extracurricular, it is an ENTERTAINMENT BUSINESS (no matter how hard the NCAA likes to pretend it isn't in their own self interests).
So LSU's AD made is choice. He was justified in doing so. But now the onus is on him because he chose to end the most successful period in LSU basketball in three decades which will come to an end with LSU's next loss. And hey, perhaps he has a plan to quickly right the ship. I sure hope so.
Posted on 3/14/22 at 9:10 am to lsupride87
quote:
You can live in the real world or you can live in fantasy land. You choose fantasy land
I don't work for LSU and have no role in Will Wade's employment.
We are simply talking about whether we think he should be fired or not.
A person can simultaneously think what Wade did is not a big deal, while also understanding that LSU probably had to fire him.
Posted on 3/14/22 at 9:11 am to Bjorn Cyborg
quote:
we think he should be fired or not.
Lying and covering up, absolutely.
Posted on 3/14/22 at 9:13 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Absolutely.
All successful coaches understand plausible deniability. Schools cannot be directly involved in paying athletes.
There is no defending Wade. He's a fraud.
So if a coach "understands plausible deniability" then he is cheating - but he is good enough to keep it at an arm's length.
So, you are OK with cheating, just don't get caught, right?
Posted on 3/14/22 at 9:17 am to Bjorn Cyborg
quote:correct
So, you are OK with cheating, just don't get caught, right?
Posted on 3/14/22 at 9:19 am to Bjorn Cyborg
quote:
So if a coach "understands plausible deniability" then he is cheating -
Nope.
Is he aware? Yep. Is he involved? Nope.
Wade put all the liability on him and the University. He's really stupid.
Posted on 3/14/22 at 9:23 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Is he aware? Yep.
This is cheating, according to the NCAA.
So, you are OK with cheating. At least you admit it.
Are you aware that the next coach LSU hires will also be a cheater?
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