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re: USC - 2003 National Championship
Posted on 12/21/22 at 12:48 pm to juice4lsu
Posted on 12/21/22 at 12:48 pm to juice4lsu
I don’t have a bone in this fight. But this was on the BCS website for several years until they updated it.
LINK
quote:
2003?? For the only time since the BCS was formed, there is a split national champion. LSU finishes atop the coaches' poll by beating Oklahoma in the Sugar Bowl in a pairing of the top two teams in the BCS Standings. USC, ranked first in both polls on Bowl Selection Sunday, is left out of the BCS championship game when the Trojans finish third in the BCS standings. But USC wins the Associated Press' championship after beating Michigan in the Rose Bowl. Oklahoma, which spent the season as the top-ranked team in both polls, earns a spot in the Sugar Bowl by finishing first in the final BCS Standings even though the Sooners lose to Kansas State in the Big 12 championship game. LSU, the SEC champion, edges USC for second place in the final BCS Standings to advance to the Sugar Bowl.??
The Conference Champions?Atlantic Coast: Florida State (10-2)?Big East: Miami (10-2)?Big Ten: Michigan (10-2)?Big 12: Kansas State (11-3)?Pac-10: USC (11-1)?Southeastern: LSU (12-1)??Other Participants?Oklahoma (12-1)?Ohio State (10-2)??The Matchups?Sugar: (2) LSU 21, (1) Oklahoma 14?Orange: (9) Miami 16, (7) Florida State 14?Rose: (3) USC 28, (4) Michigan 14?Fiesta: (5) Ohio State 35, (10) Kansas State 28??
The Result?? - A split decision: LSU finishes atop the coaches' poll; USC is No. 1 in the Associated Press poll.
LINK
0
Posted on 12/21/22 at 1:00 pm to MikeTheTiger71
quote:
If the AP was irrelevant in 2003
It wasn't "irrelevant" in general, but it was irrelevnat to crownign the national champion. It was but one single part of the BCS whole. It was no different than the colley matrix or jeff sagarin or the coaches poll. It was one ingredient that made up the entire BCS cake.
quote:
why did the Orlando Sentinel report co-champions the next day
I don't think "well the orlando cential said so!" qualifies as rock solid proof of anything.
quote:
Here’s the ESPN game summary mentioning, again, a split championship.
Good for them! They're an entertainment company and they can say whateve rthey please. They can put out an article today claiming the sky is green but that doesn't actually make it so. There is only 1 national champion each year from 1998-present, based on the system in place and agreed upon at the time. After 1997 there are no more split titles no matter how desperately some people want there to be.
Posted on 12/21/22 at 1:08 pm to WG_Dawg
quote:
don't think "well the orlando cential said so!" qualifies as rock solid proof of anything.
The BCS organization specifically said so. They called it a split national championship. Please see what I just posted above your post
Posted on 12/21/22 at 1:09 pm to WG_Dawg
Wait! I thought UCF was the National Champion of 2017? LMAO!!
I agree with you’re statement. 1 team is crowned National Champion. It is the winner of the National Championship game.
I agree with you’re statement. 1 team is crowned National Champion. It is the winner of the National Championship game.
Posted on 12/21/22 at 1:13 pm to Sampsonashford
quote:
The BCS organization specifically said so. They called it a split national championship. Please see what I just posted above your post
Great. Doesn't matter. My company can say I don't work there even though I do. From the same website you linked:
quote:
The Bowl Championship Series was established before the 1998 season to determine the national champion for college football
Don't know how much clearer it can be. Nowhere does it say anything about allowing the AP to be their own entity. The BCS was created to pit #1 vs #2 in a natinoal title game. Nowhere in teh BCS's mission does it say they are going to regognize champions of all major polls. It says they're going to have 1 play 2 in a national title game for, ya know...the natinoal title. If you didn't play in the national title game, you didn't win the national title.
This post was edited on 12/21/22 at 1:14 pm
Posted on 12/21/22 at 1:14 pm to juice4lsu
Are Miami and Washington fans triggered by 1991? Nebraska and Michigan by 1997? And there are several from before that. Split titles have long been a part of CFB. It’s been 19 years, we’ve won 2 more since then, it’s time to get over the inferiority complex
Posted on 12/21/22 at 1:18 pm to H-Town Tiger
quote:
Are Miami and Washington fans triggered by 1991? Nebraska and Michigan by 1997?
OBVIOUSLY you understand that in those years there was not an established and recognized system in place specifically for the very purpose of determining a national champion. Right?
Posted on 12/21/22 at 1:18 pm to WG_Dawg
quote:
If you didn't play in the national title game, you didn't win the national titl
Except the BCS specifically called it “split” national championship… A split decision”.
Doesn’t matter what their mission statement or Gail was. People and organizations fail to achieve their mission statements or goals all the time. And the BCS did fail in that case. Again they (The BCS) specifically called it “split national championship… Split decision”
It cannot get any more clear than that
This post was edited on 12/21/22 at 1:21 pm
Posted on 12/21/22 at 1:22 pm to Sampsonashford
quote:
Except the BCS specifically called it “split” national championship
It's irrelevant what they called it.
quote:
A split decision”.
Decision? This isn't frickign boxing or gymnastics, there aren't judges scoring a bout to make a decision. There is a NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP GAME in which the winner is the national champion. USC didn't even play in that game, much less win it.
quote:
. People and organizations fail to achieve their mission statements all the time. And the BCS did fail in that case.
This is hilarious. A poll going rogue and voting outside of what they were supposed to somehow measn the BCS system failed. No..it means the AP was unnecessarily fricktarded and they ended up getting kicked out of the BCS one year later because of it.
quote:
It cannot get any more clear than that
Yes, I agree. Everything that's been typed up above could not be more clear.
Posted on 12/21/22 at 1:25 pm to WG_Dawg
quote:
Decision? This isn't frickign boxing or gymnastics, there aren't judges scoring a bout to make a decision. There is a NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP GAME in which the winner is the national champion. USC didn't even play in that game, much less win it.
Take it up with the BCS. Those are their words not mine. Their exact words about 2003
quote:
This is hilarious. A poll going rogue and voting outside of what they were supposed to somehow measn the BCS system failed. No..it means the AP was unnecessarily fricktarded and they ended up getting kicked out of the BCS one year later because of it.
That’s completely wrong. The AP did not go rogue. There was no agreement between the BCS and AP for the AP to vote for the winner of the top two BCS teams to be national champion. That agreement was only with the coaches poll.
The AP had USC as number one going into their bowl game. Never in the history of the AP or coaches poll has a team been ranked number one, won their bowl game, and dropped in the rankings. The AP was not kicked out. They told the BCS to stop using their poll as a factor.
Again, I refer you to the BCS. They stated that 2003 was a “split national championship“
This post was edited on 12/21/22 at 1:32 pm
Posted on 12/21/22 at 1:47 pm to WG_Dawg
quote:
OBVIOUSLY you understand that in those years there was not an established and recognized system in place specifically for the very purpose of determining a national champion. Right?
And there really wasn’t in 2003 either. The difference was they agreed to a system to match the #1 and #2 teams in a bowl game and the winner would be declared the National Champion by the Coaches Poll. Unfortunately the powers that be concocted an overly complicated and repetitive formula to select those teams and the AP never agreed to name the winner of that game the National Champion. Had they just used the 1-2 in the polls it would have been USC vs LSU and zero controversy. The villain is the asinine system that put Oklahoma in after losing their CCG 35-7.
Whether you like it or not the NCAA recognizes both champions from 2003. It’s no big deal as I said it happened several times in the past, time to get over the inferiority complex
LINK
Posted on 12/21/22 at 2:14 pm to WG_Dawg
quote:
Nowhere does it say anything about allowing the AP to be their own entity.
You seem to be very confused about who the BCS is if you think they had the power to “allow” or deny an independent organization like the AP the right to do anything. They were not an NCAA sanctioned body and had no official status. The acceptance of their champion was still dependent upon public perception and acknowledgment. The funny thing is that the way they went about establishing that validity was to sign an agreement with the Coaches’ Poll to make the BCS winner their #1 and present the Coaches’ Poll trophy to the winner. In other words, they still deferred to the polls as the arbiter of the national champions. Since there was no such arrangement with the AP, that still left open the possibility of a split championship. They tried to make it less likely, but even they acknowledged that they failed in that goal in 2003.
This post was edited on 12/21/22 at 2:15 pm
Posted on 12/21/22 at 2:26 pm to WG_Dawg
quote:
I don't think "well the orlando cential said so!" qualifies as rock solid proof of anything.
If it were just one or two sources you might have a stronger argument, especially if you even had one source saying something different. The fact of the matter is that you have produced no such source and it’s far more than one or two sources saying there were Co-champions. I have produced links to the Orlando Sentinel, Houma Today, ESPN, CBS and the LA Times all saying the same thing. Others have provided links to the BCS and NCAA both saying there was a split championship. If you go out to any number of sites like Sports Reference that chronicle college football history, you will see credit to both LSU and USC for winning the national championship that year. Even sites like Reddit that have discussions that reveal broader public opinion on the topic will show a general consensus that USC has a legitimate claim. Individually you might seek to discredit some of those sources. Collectively, that’s a lot of backing for the position that it was a shared title that takes much more than the bluster of a poster who has almost all of the facts wrong about the BCS.
Posted on 12/21/22 at 8:42 pm to siliconvalleytiger
quote:
even as a couple of their teams in that era were very good
Lots of illegal recruiting going on, hence Carroll had to leave for the NFL. Because USC was hit hard by the NCAA, Oregon finally looked decent with USC on probation. The Oregon gets knocked for recruiting irregularities and Chip "on the shoulder" Kelly leaves for the Eagles to get embarrrassed.
Posted on 12/21/22 at 8:43 pm to Timeoday
Can this thread just get anchored already
Posted on 12/22/22 at 2:10 pm to WildTchoupitoulas
I see the words "THE NATIONAL CHAMPION"
Posted on 12/22/22 at 2:15 pm to juice4lsu
It makes no sense. They didn’t play for the title.
Posted on 12/22/22 at 3:18 pm to juice4lsu
yeah, you can't win the championship if you don't make the playoffs, even if the playoffs is only 2 teams
Posted on 12/22/22 at 4:15 pm to monsterballads
quote:
I see the words "THE NATIONAL CHAMPION"
It also said that from 1986-1997 BEFORE the BCS. Is it your contention that because the Coaches’ Poll trophy brashly proclaimed their champion to be THE champion that any year the AP picked someone else that team was not also national champion?
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