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Message
re: Celsius files Chapter 11
Posted on 7/14/22 at 3:11 pm to molsusports
Posted on 7/14/22 at 3:11 pm to molsusports
quote:
Working in order to receive wealth isn't fun but it should be sustainable. Tommy Vu taught a lot of people this lesson (the hard way) years ago.
Funny. The people at the top tell you that? Because they dont work. They just decide who gets how much.
quote:
But the net ability to produce value has to be linked to net wealth accumulation for a system to be sustainable. If you are living in a mansion (off bitcoin profits) you really harvested the wealth of millions of other investors.
Yet, while you slave away in your 9-5 they suck your good years so you can retire when your body is ready to go to sleep.
quote:
Working in order to receive wealth isn't fun but it should be sustainable. Tommy Vu taught a lot of people this lesson (the hard way) years ago.
The space is much deeper than "moonshots".
This post was edited on 7/14/22 at 3:15 pm
2
Posted on 7/14/22 at 3:19 pm to Grievous Angel
I agree and disagree somehow. 
Your line of reasoning is 100% correct but the inherent properties of Bitcoin do make it the most superior store of value (when it has matured).
I also see a great future in decentralized finance but we still don't know what that looks like yet as all the ponzi coins are not decentralized.
It's important to note, our own Federal Reserve sees a future in these 2 as well.
Your line of reasoning is 100% correct but the inherent properties of Bitcoin do make it the most superior store of value (when it has matured).
I also see a great future in decentralized finance but we still don't know what that looks like yet as all the ponzi coins are not decentralized.
It's important to note, our own Federal Reserve sees a future in these 2 as well.
This post was edited on 7/14/22 at 3:20 pm
Posted on 7/14/22 at 3:25 pm to JayDeerTay84
quote:
Funny. The people at the top tell you that? Because they dont work. They just decide who gets how much.
Lol. Look, we can all see you are bitter and frustrated and I've been there. But, what you are not understanding is that very VERY few people get to the top without working hard to get there. Furthermore, there's not that many people that are 1% that don't work hard or at least don't work normally.
This whole idea that there's a lot of rich people on easy street that don't do anything is almost entirely a Hollywood fairytale. This whole idea there are a bunch of people working to hold you down is foolish ignorance. There's never been an easier time in modern history to work your way to the top.
Posted on 7/14/22 at 3:25 pm to TigerTatorTots
quote:
Dude was telling this board to buy bitcoin back when it was ~$1000
The thing is, if he actually bought substantial amounts of BTC at $1k then there's no reason he wouldn't still be here running his mouth because he'd still be up 20x.
My guess is he bought in minimally around $1k but mostly bought in at higher levels. Pair that with the Celsius debacle and NFT chasing. He's probably in a world of hurt. Despite being obnoxious AF I hope he makes it out alright. Hopefully he'll be back to annoy everyone when the coin eventually bounces.
Posted on 7/14/22 at 3:32 pm to baldona
quote:
Lol. Look, we can all see you are bitter and frustrated and I've been there.
Ahh yea. I disagree so I must be "bitter" and "frustrated"!
quote:
But, what you are not understanding is that very VERY few people get to the top without working hard to get there.
Really? Of the congress men and women, how many worked hard?
Define hard?
quote:In America yea. But globally our poors are fat and have iphones and play Xbox...
This whole idea that there's a lot of rich people on easy street that don't do anything is almost entirely a Hollywood fairytale.
quote:
There's never been an easier time in modern history to work your way to the top.
I agree and Crypto levels the playing field "globally".
As I have said before, many of you have it so easy you don't actually know what hard is. There are billions of people so fricked by their economic "system" that "crypto" doesn't make sense to you but it does to them. I know there is the shitcoin craze and tons of scams, but the meat and majority of the space are actually problem solving projects.
You know, if you ever took the time to read the Bitcoin white paper, I'd ask you what issues do you have with it? Anything that you would say, "nah, thats fricked"? I am willing to bet you would agree with just about all of the paper. 100% if you lived a shithole like 2/3rds of the global population.
quote:But its not. Especially globally. I got yelled at for over 2 years to take a fricking shot I didnt need and have to rely on a few judges to allow me freedom on choice. Thank god 5 people allowed me to have a "career" free of a covid Vax.....
This whole idea there are a bunch of people working to hold you down is foolish ignorance.
Imagine my financial opportunities if the SC said I had to take it? Oh, does this not count? We are just one heart attack away from "compliance".....
This post was edited on 7/14/22 at 3:40 pm
Posted on 7/14/22 at 4:11 pm to JayDeerTay84
Too much of your focus seems to linger on exceptions. Granted corruption in business, government, and nepotism exist. Talking about people who benefit undeservedly from those instances isn't fundamentally different from complaining about the wealth gap (and arguably amounts to the same).
My concern is most of us are very vulnerable to motivated reasoning. Any person making claims too good to be true deserves skepticism (and introspection).
This doesn't amount to much other than a childish ad hominem attack of anyone expressing normal concerns.
In the last few months we've seen a huge loss of paper value across the space. I do think bitcoin may turn out to have resilient value but the huge number of coins that will wash out and have zero value should make even bitcoin enthusiasts worry about the technology moat they may or may not have
My concern is most of us are very vulnerable to motivated reasoning. Any person making claims too good to be true deserves skepticism (and introspection).
quote:
Yet, while you slave away in your 9-5 they suck your good years so you can retire when your body is ready to go to sleep
This doesn't amount to much other than a childish ad hominem attack of anyone expressing normal concerns.
quote:
The space is much deeper than "moonshots".
In the last few months we've seen a huge loss of paper value across the space. I do think bitcoin may turn out to have resilient value but the huge number of coins that will wash out and have zero value should make even bitcoin enthusiasts worry about the technology moat they may or may not have
Posted on 7/14/22 at 4:17 pm to molsusports
quote:
My concern is most of us are very vulnerable to motivated reasoning. Any person making claims too good to be true deserves skepticism (and introspection).
But this isn't just a crypto problem.....
quote:
This doesn't amount to much other than a childish ad hominem attack of anyone expressing normal concerns.
Yet, you claimed:
quote:
If you are living in a mansion (off bitcoin profits) you really harvested the wealth of millions of other investors.
Question, when you buy stocks, do you do so with expectation you are not the last buyer?
quote:
In the last few months we've seen a huge loss of paper value across the space. I do think bitcoin may turn out to have resilient value but the huge number of coins that will wash out and have zero value should make even bitcoin enthusiasts worry about the technology moat they may or may not have
How many years do you need? 12 more? 24 more? 50?
You know, stitcoins operate no differently than when banks created the subprime crisis. They were literally trading stacks of shite.
Posted on 7/14/22 at 4:51 pm to JayDeerTay84
quote:
My concern is most of us are very vulnerable to motivated reasoning. Any person making claims too good to be true deserves skepticism (and introspection).
But this isn't just a crypto problem
Agreed. But you should agree crypto has been inundated with with the get rich easy promises. This is a universal issue disproportionately affecting the crypto space.
quote:
This doesn't amount to much other than a childish ad hominem attack of anyone expressing normal concerns.
Yet, you claimed:
quote:
If you are living in a mansion (off bitcoin profits) you really harvested the wealth of millions of other investors.
Question, when you buy stocks, do you do so with expectation you are not the last buyer?
For the last question people investing in equities presumably do this in the belief that it will increase in fundamental value over time. A responsible investor doesn't generally put very much money at risk in bad companies. Shitcoin maximalists have apparently been doing a lot more than putting small amounts of money at risk. Responsible investors putting money into good companies are not ripping off the next buyer.
Your ad hominem about suckers who have to work until they are 65 and then die (if they don't buy a coin you advocate for) is also a qualitatively different type of conversation designed to insult or shame people inclined to ask questions or disagree.
quote:
In the last few months we've seen a huge loss of paper value across the space. I do think bitcoin may turn out to have resilient value but the huge number of coins that will wash out and have zero value should make even bitcoin enthusiasts worry about the technology moat they may or may not have
How many years do you need? 12 more? 24 more? 50
You could view it (bitcoin) like a company. For all of the interest and attention the coins are still very small market industries compared to the systems that the advocates compare them. The specific coins will remain viable for a length of time that depends on it internal characteristics (integrity) and external pressures (alternatives). I like bitcoin (for example) in theory. I dislike the promises made by its advocates.
quote:
You know, stitcoins operate no differently than when banks created the subprime crisis. They were literally trading stacks of shite
I read this in Charlie Munger's voice
Posted on 7/14/22 at 5:08 pm to molsusports
quote:
I dislike the promises made by its advocates.
What a silly thing to say. BTC is governed by math. Not people.
It's like the dorks who hate America because Trump. Trump is just one guy. Not the entire country.
quote:
Your ad hominem about suckers who have to work until they are 65 and then die (if they don't buy a coin you advocate for) is also a qualitatively different type of conversation designed to insult or shame people inclined to ask questions or disagree.
Well this is a fricking lie as I haven't advocated for ANYONE to buy ANYTHING...
What is funny in all of this, is your 1st reply to me was some condescending bullshite about "crypto bros" and how you just assumed some shite about me.
Leave your ego at the door guy.
You do realize my comment about working away your good years was in REPLY to your comment about me "harvesting" wealth from other BTC buyers right?
quote:
Responsible investors putting money into good companies are not ripping off the next buyer.
How is me buying BTC low ripping anyone off? What kind of fricked up logic is this? And you want to lecture me about ad hominem?
What a shitty mindset.
Better tell your grandpappy that when he bought all his gold for cheaper than it is today he is ripping all of us off! What an a-hole!
This post was edited on 7/14/22 at 5:11 pm
Posted on 7/15/22 at 7:21 am to JayDeerTay84
quote:
What a silly thing to say. BTC is governed by math. Not people.
The value of BTC is 100% governed by people.
Markets are sociological phenomena that we use math to analyze and formulate predictions.
quote:
It's like the dorks who hate America because Trump. Trump is just one guy. Not the entire country.
BTC was a technology that became a form of currency and then became an investment once it became popular (2015 or so). Discussing BTC today is primarily discussing it in terms of (1) it's value (2) as an investment. In these discussions you love to conflate the various concepts relating to crypto to create a rhetorical moving target of sorts. So the poster above was clearly discussing BTC in terms of it's function and you reply discussing it's theoretical status. Nobody was discussing BTC in that manner. People haven't discussed BTC in that manner going on 7 years, now.
Your responses in threads about crypto always do this, which make them even less valuable than rocket's condescension. At least he had a consistent base for his points/arguments and didn't argue dishonestly. He just argued like an a-hole.
Posted on 7/15/22 at 7:37 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
The value of BTC is 100% governed by people.
No it is "governed" by math.
People "store" their value in it.
quote:
In these discussions you love to conflate the various concepts relating to crypto to create a rhetorical moving target of sorts.
Ah yea, its me. I am the one starting threads about a project failing and painting a broad brush over the space.
quote:
So the poster above was clearly discussing BTC in terms of it's function and you reply discussing it's theoretical status
Really? What function was he discussing? Because he clearly started talking to me about my "crypto bro" beliefs.....
Honestly, the problem is you guys talk in such general terms because you have no depth. You guys are never specific in anything so you can worm your way back out.
The BTC paper has been posted countless times and none of you have ever cited a fault in it.
You wait until a exchange fails or some new shitcoin is minted and then here we are, having guys like the above telling ME I dont want to work hard because I am evolved in the space.
This post was edited on 7/15/22 at 7:44 am
Posted on 7/15/22 at 7:53 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Your responses in threads about crypto always do this, which make them even less valuable than rocket's condescension.
Yet your 1st post was to gloat.
quote:
RIP rocket31
Have your house in order if you are going to start casting stones.
Also, I just reviewed all your post in this thread. They all mention/regard Rocket. Maybe you should dig into your own personal issues.
This post was edited on 7/15/22 at 7:57 am
Posted on 7/15/22 at 9:27 am to dualed
Lots of the crypto fanboys didn’t see this coming and no one warned them that it could happen. They want a currency without regulation and with that, comes some risk
It’s just frustrating that some have to learn the hard way
It’s just frustrating that some have to learn the hard way
Posted on 7/15/22 at 9:34 am to SlidellCajun
quote:
no one warned them that it could happen
There were tons of red flags and plenty of people were out there warning users of the risks with Celsius. But hey where else am I going to get 10-20% returns!!!
Granted now we know they were running a classic ponzi scheme.
This post was edited on 7/15/22 at 9:35 am
Posted on 7/15/22 at 11:04 am to SlidellCajun
seems the problem wasn’t the currency, but a company acting like a classic Ponzi scheme
Posted on 7/15/22 at 12:28 pm to Ross
Yea people are still confused with bitcoin/crypto/celsius and others. All different.
Posted on 7/15/22 at 1:02 pm to 21JumpStreet
quote:No matter how much you try to explain they will continue doing so
Yea people are still confused with bitcoin/crypto/celsius and others. All different.
Posted on 7/15/22 at 3:01 pm to SlowFlowPro
I'll reply to you since the other guy gets angry and the conversation devolves from there.
The idea of bitcoin's value is governed by math seems like a theoretical possibility. But the proponents belief in this seems unsupported by the history. We saw value pop and now deflate like a speculative investment. No fundamental bitcoin math changed. If this was more like a reserve currency or virtual gold we should have seen roughly the opposite of what it has done over the last couple years (charting shows it to behave like a risk on technology stock, not a risk off reserve).
What I like about bitcoin is it lacks some of the specific corruption issues of fiat currencies like the dollar.
What I don't like about bitcoin is it has a lot of problems that might be worse (more unethical and destabilizing over the long term). I am good with criticism of all of the fiat currencies, their corrupt governments, debts, deficits, cronyism, and the kind of real concerns about fairness, opportunity, and stability that some bitcoin advocates implicitly reference. But their solution is ultimately far worse.
There's inadequate bitcoin opportunity for 99.999% of humanity (who are already alive) to buy in and leverage wealth. If you bought in 2012 you could have become a theoretical billionaire. Bully for you but that's not available for others and not sustainable. Going forward there's ZERO percent opportunity for young children or people who are not already alive to participate equally. Any sustainable or just system that will retain acceptance (without the use of force) must provide better opportunity for new adopters and new generations.
Unless you are already invested with theoretical wealth from coins the truth and fairness of this statement is obvious.
The disruption of unethical systems hoped for by bitcoin etc is also untrue with any significant thought. The wealthy have the capital to invest, manipulate, steal, and mine in ways people of little, average, or even slightly above average American means simply lack. Mining is no longer a realistic hobby horse. This is an investment that requires real capital and will accelerate, not reduce, the wealth divide.
The idea of bitcoin's value is governed by math seems like a theoretical possibility. But the proponents belief in this seems unsupported by the history. We saw value pop and now deflate like a speculative investment. No fundamental bitcoin math changed. If this was more like a reserve currency or virtual gold we should have seen roughly the opposite of what it has done over the last couple years (charting shows it to behave like a risk on technology stock, not a risk off reserve).
What I like about bitcoin is it lacks some of the specific corruption issues of fiat currencies like the dollar.
What I don't like about bitcoin is it has a lot of problems that might be worse (more unethical and destabilizing over the long term). I am good with criticism of all of the fiat currencies, their corrupt governments, debts, deficits, cronyism, and the kind of real concerns about fairness, opportunity, and stability that some bitcoin advocates implicitly reference. But their solution is ultimately far worse.
There's inadequate bitcoin opportunity for 99.999% of humanity (who are already alive) to buy in and leverage wealth. If you bought in 2012 you could have become a theoretical billionaire. Bully for you but that's not available for others and not sustainable. Going forward there's ZERO percent opportunity for young children or people who are not already alive to participate equally. Any sustainable or just system that will retain acceptance (without the use of force) must provide better opportunity for new adopters and new generations.
Unless you are already invested with theoretical wealth from coins the truth and fairness of this statement is obvious.
The disruption of unethical systems hoped for by bitcoin etc is also untrue with any significant thought. The wealthy have the capital to invest, manipulate, steal, and mine in ways people of little, average, or even slightly above average American means simply lack. Mining is no longer a realistic hobby horse. This is an investment that requires real capital and will accelerate, not reduce, the wealth divide.
Posted on 7/15/22 at 3:08 pm to dualed
Posted on 7/15/22 at 3:36 pm to molsusports
Can you explain one instance of Bitcoins open source code acting unethical?
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