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Posted on 6/6/19 at 2:28 pm to Fun Bunch
TL, DR
Posted on 6/6/19 at 2:31 pm to Fun Bunch
Jalen Rose hates analytics because analytics shows that he sucked as a basketball player.
Posted on 6/6/19 at 2:33 pm to Fun Bunch
Jalen has tried to get on as a head coach in the league for years, and this is obviously why he thinks he isnt getting any head coaching gigs.
You can be a great NBA player and be a terrible motivator and leader. Him thinking that being a player means he can coach is bogus.
You can be a great NBA player and be a terrible motivator and leader. Him thinking that being a player means he can coach is bogus.
Posted on 6/6/19 at 2:36 pm to Fun Bunch
Magic Johnson and Michael Jordan prove why Jalen is wrong.
Posted on 6/6/19 at 2:37 pm to tiggerthetooth
quote:
Magic Johnson and Michael Jordan prove why Jalen is wrong.
But muh experience.
Posted on 6/6/19 at 2:44 pm to Fun Bunch
I’m so sick of the whole ‘_______ is racist’ bullshite
Jalen Rose is a fricking moron. Basketball smarts and business/analytical smarts are two way different things
Jalen Rose is a fricking moron. Basketball smarts and business/analytical smarts are two way different things
Posted on 6/6/19 at 2:44 pm to Walking the Earth
quote:
In fairness, it must be frustrating for a player to have some pasty nerd tell him he plays like shite but the numbers are the numbers.
I understand and agree here more than Rose saying there's a cultural/race aspect.
There's a natural backlash when a player sees some math major that can't touch the bottom of the net tell the player he needs to do something different or that the player sucks. Who is this nerd to talk about stuff he can't do?
That said, analytics are valuable. You do yourself a disservice ignoring them. It isn't cultural, it's an organization trying to be their best by gathering maximal data.
Posted on 6/6/19 at 2:47 pm to WestCoastAg
YES.
I completely understand it now. But my god did they go about it the wrong way.
We’d see these guys maybe twice during the season. They’d sneak in for about a week or so and then be gone.
So you’d be battling it out in short season with a bunch of guys you just got done watching play in regionals and supers and shite. Thinking you’re doing well and then out of nowhere you get called into a meeting and player ops is telling you they can’t work with you until you get faster to the plate. Gotta get faster to the plate to move up.
Then they leave and it’s up to you and your pitching coach to get you faster to the plate in the middle of the season that you’re doing well in. Then your pitching coach has a beer with you and telling you frick that guy, just get outs.
Then 4 months later you’re getting yelled at for not being faster to the plate.
And that’s just basic shite. Higher ups are looking at the plane on your fastball. Spin rate and depth of your breaking pitches. Velocity that plenty times they won’t even tell you numbers on. “Don’t worry about velocity.” BABIP.
A lot of that sounds like obvious things to pay attention to. But they get lost when you’re just doing what they tell you to do which is JUST GET OUTS. They’re just really bad at communicating what they want from you.
I completely understand it now. But my god did they go about it the wrong way.
We’d see these guys maybe twice during the season. They’d sneak in for about a week or so and then be gone.
So you’d be battling it out in short season with a bunch of guys you just got done watching play in regionals and supers and shite. Thinking you’re doing well and then out of nowhere you get called into a meeting and player ops is telling you they can’t work with you until you get faster to the plate. Gotta get faster to the plate to move up.
Then they leave and it’s up to you and your pitching coach to get you faster to the plate in the middle of the season that you’re doing well in. Then your pitching coach has a beer with you and telling you frick that guy, just get outs.
Then 4 months later you’re getting yelled at for not being faster to the plate.
And that’s just basic shite. Higher ups are looking at the plane on your fastball. Spin rate and depth of your breaking pitches. Velocity that plenty times they won’t even tell you numbers on. “Don’t worry about velocity.” BABIP.
A lot of that sounds like obvious things to pay attention to. But they get lost when you’re just doing what they tell you to do which is JUST GET OUTS. They’re just really bad at communicating what they want from you.
Posted on 6/6/19 at 2:48 pm to ReauxlTide222
i can totally see that 
Posted on 6/6/19 at 2:48 pm to Fun Bunch
quote:
Correct. And one other point I want to make with that: it is laughable to me when playing experience gets equated to any other type of experience, including coaching. When you play—for example, somebody like me, who has been playing my entire life—for some strange reason that experience gets diminished when it’s time to talk about powerful positions in sports—like, He doesn’t have experience. There is no bigger experience than being in the foxhole, in the huddles, and out on the floor—being a part of the game plan and being game-planned against. But also all the people you learn from: your teammates, the coaches, how to navigate with the media, how to navigate with the fans. Instead of it being, He doesn’t have experience, it really should be, He has more experience than almost anybody walking the earth.
He's mixing GM/front office type jobs with coaching jobs. His experience is valuable in a coaching role, but it doesn't necessarily mean squat in a front office.
Posted on 6/6/19 at 2:52 pm to WestCoastAg
There’s a LOT of beer drinking with coaches who say, “yeah frick what that guy told you.”
Posted on 6/6/19 at 2:56 pm to ReauxlTide222
is that simply a case that some organizations are better at relaying the info to their players, or did you get the sense that all of them went about it pretty much the same? cause ive always felt that the only real difference between teams, ow that they have all embraced the analytics, is the ability to get their concepts across to the players. but maybe im wrong and they all go about it poorly
like the dodgers, we have had an incredible run of either a)interal minor league development and b) reclamation projects like max muncy or brandon morrow. and when you listen to these guys on the podcats and stuff, they pretty openly talk about embracing these numbers and spin rates and depth and plane and how they are actively thinking about them (outside of kershaw who has been pretty open about his disdain for these numbers) but then you see organizations like the mets who i have never heard any of their players talk as openly about the analytics like the dodgers do and it just makes you think thats where the inefficiency is now
like the dodgers, we have had an incredible run of either a)interal minor league development and b) reclamation projects like max muncy or brandon morrow. and when you listen to these guys on the podcats and stuff, they pretty openly talk about embracing these numbers and spin rates and depth and plane and how they are actively thinking about them (outside of kershaw who has been pretty open about his disdain for these numbers
) but then you see organizations like the mets who i have never heard any of their players talk as openly about the analytics like the dodgers do and it just makes you think thats where the inefficiency is nowThis post was edited on 6/6/19 at 3:03 pm
Posted on 6/6/19 at 2:57 pm to ReauxlTide222
Most players don't like analytics so his opinion is not new. To tell any athlete, baseball, basketball, or football or hockey and so on that the analytics means we have to pull you from the game in these situations or not play you under these conditions is frustrating to anyone who's played a game at a high level.
It's basically saying "you can't do this, we don't believe you can learn or try to do this, and we have the data to say you can't do this". Any professional athlete will chafe at that and want to prove the analytics wrong.
He's not saying analytics is racist. He's basically saying players don't like analytics telling them what they can or can't do.
It's basically saying "you can't do this, we don't believe you can learn or try to do this, and we have the data to say you can't do this". Any professional athlete will chafe at that and want to prove the analytics wrong.
He's not saying analytics is racist. He's basically saying players don't like analytics telling them what they can or can't do.
Posted on 6/6/19 at 3:00 pm to Fun Bunch
quote:
There is no bigger experience than being in the foxhole, in the huddles, and out on the floor—being a part of the game plan and being game-planned against. But also all the people you learn from: your teammates, the coaches, how to navigate with the media, how to navigate with the fans. Instead of it being, He doesn’t have experience, it really should be, He has more experience than almost anybody walking the earth.
It's not just basketball that this applies to. It applies to a lot of jobs in the "real world". For example, just because a factory worker has worked a job for 30 years, you can't just automatically assume that that person would be a good manager of employees. It's a completely different job, and just because you are a good employee, doesn't mean you'd be a good manager. This is taught if you've ever taken any management classes
Posted on 6/6/19 at 3:01 pm to Keys Open Doors
quote:
I have also never understood why Jalen Rose is a well-liked and respected media figure. He is obnoxious and unintelligent.
it's all thanks to his segments with Bill Simmons
Posted on 6/6/19 at 3:02 pm to ReauxlTide222
quote:
They’re just really bad at communicating what they want from you.
What number crunching nerd is really good at interpersonal communication?
Posted on 6/6/19 at 3:03 pm to ReauxlTide222
That’s great insight.
I got really into baseball analytics a few years go because of a video game and needing to know if a player’s card would get upgraded. I got into it enough I even started talking with a Fangraphs writer about it weekly. This was all done in just my free time as a hobby.
I do agree with him that analytics and the nerds and GM’s who think they are they are law in terms of rating players is idiotic. But he has to know that it isn’t that difficult to actually jump in and study up on this if a former player is serious about a front office job.
I got really into baseball analytics a few years go because of a video game and needing to know if a player’s card would get upgraded. I got into it enough I even started talking with a Fangraphs writer about it weekly. This was all done in just my free time as a hobby.
I do agree with him that analytics and the nerds and GM’s who think they are they are law in terms of rating players is idiotic. But he has to know that it isn’t that difficult to actually jump in and study up on this if a former player is serious about a front office job.
Posted on 6/6/19 at 3:04 pm to Rep520
quote:
There's a natural backlash when a player sees some math major that can't touch the bottom of the net tell the player he needs to do something different or that the player sucks. Who is this nerd to talk about stuff he can't do?
the data is the data
and ultimately, the use of that data will be analyzed with other data, so that math major is going to have to face it, too
Posted on 6/6/19 at 3:06 pm to WestCoastAg
quote:
some organizations are better at relaying the info
I got drafted to one of the worst run organizations in baseball and eventually traded to one of the best. It was alarming how much better the 2nd one was than the first.
I went from, “frick it, just get that ball over the plate,” to an organization that was on the same page from top to bottom. Every position at every level was working on the exact same things that they were in the big leagues. Same philosophies, same everything.
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