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Posted on 4/15/10 at 3:59 pm to STEVED00
quote:
Stop thinking that your kid will be playing one day in the bigs.
My son's 3 months old, so i haven't made any plans yet. I also had this conversation with a pitcher who played at LSU and spent 4 years in the minors.
Posted on 4/15/10 at 4:02 pm to barry
quote:
My son's 3 months old, so i haven't made any plans yet. I also had this conversation with a pitcher who played at LSU and spent 4 years in the minors
Look. All I'm saying is that it was a blast striking kids out as a young kid even though I didn't have an overpowing fastball but I could locate and change speeds (ie curve). Most kids curves barely break its more a spinning changeup but the velocity is a lot less with the same arm motion.
Kids really don't throw hard enough to really hurt their arms until they reach puberty and their muscles start to grow and change. I really don't think throwing a curve as a kid really has any impact pre-puberty to a person's arm.
This post was edited on 4/15/10 at 4:05 pm
Posted on 4/15/10 at 4:02 pm to Truculent Typist
My pitchers all know how to throw the curve at age 12.
They don't throw it often.
I encourage them to use simple change ups the majority of the time.
I think the greater culprit to damaging young arms are high pitch counts... AND... making them throw high pitch counts repeatedly during the week. My pitchers throw in games once a week. That's it.
No single pitch, when thrown in moderation, is going to kill a kid's arm. ANY pitch thrown to extremes will.
Parents need to buy into THAT line of thinking before demonizing the curve ball, in my opinion.
They don't throw it often.
I encourage them to use simple change ups the majority of the time.
I think the greater culprit to damaging young arms are high pitch counts... AND... making them throw high pitch counts repeatedly during the week. My pitchers throw in games once a week. That's it.
No single pitch, when thrown in moderation, is going to kill a kid's arm. ANY pitch thrown to extremes will.
Parents need to buy into THAT line of thinking before demonizing the curve ball, in my opinion.
Posted on 4/15/10 at 4:04 pm to STEVED00
quote:
STEVED00
i agree with what you say to an extent but i still dont think a child should start trying to throw a breaking ball at that age. i could give two shits if they strike their friends out on a well located fast ball compared to a curve ball.
quote:
Not too many 12 yrs that have big enough hands to throw a change w/o slowing their arm
good point. i am dealing with 14 and 15 yo who are as big as me. hell, my son is giving me his shoes he has outgrown
Posted on 4/15/10 at 4:05 pm to STEVED00
quote:
Look. All I'm saying is that it was a blast striking kids out as a young kid even though I didn't have an overpowing fastball but I could locate and change speeds (ie curve). Most kids curves barely break its more a spinning changeup but the velocity is a lot less with the same arm motion.
I think its legit. It's not necessarily just the kids doing it on their own, which they will do. But coaches actually pushing it on kids.
Posted on 4/15/10 at 4:08 pm to SpqrTiger
quote:
before demonizing the curve ball,
if you teach it correctly and dont over use it. i have seen kids that have played against us who use it every other pitch. at that point i give the take sign.
its an awesome pitch but needs to be taught correctly and used seldom at a young age.
Posted on 4/15/10 at 4:10 pm to MsandLa
quote:
i could give two shits if they strike their friends out on a well located fast ball compared to a curve ball.
You might not but the kid will. Let them enjoy the game. The curve has been thrown under the bus as the main cause of arm trouble but I think the bigger culprit is general over use ie throwing too much. Your arm is not designed to throw over hand so it is a naturally stressful motion whereas throwing under hand ie softball is not (hence softball pitchers sometimes throw every game).
Proper warming up and pitch counts are much better at preventing arm issues. Sometimes when you hit puberty and you are a pitcher, your arm will just hurt whether you throw curves or not bc your muscles are constanly growing and changing.
Posted on 4/15/10 at 4:10 pm to Truculent Typist
quote:
My old pitching coach was taught by his father (former minor leaguer) at 12 and couldn't throw anymore around 30.
that is ridiculous.
if this is true then he was throwing WAY too many curves as a kid.
Posted on 4/15/10 at 4:14 pm to artvandelay1987
quote:
if this is true then he was throwing WAY too many curves as a kid
Even if this was the case, who really needs to be able to throw/pitch a baseball after maybe HS anyway. My baseball days ended in HS and now I just play the occasional softball game.
Posted on 4/15/10 at 4:16 pm to STEVED00
quote:
My baseball days ended in HS and now I just play the occasional softball game.
ditto
i know throwing curves as a kid can hurt your arm, but if they are taught the proper way and don't throw too many then this won't happen.
This post was edited on 4/15/10 at 4:17 pm
Posted on 4/15/10 at 4:20 pm to STEVED00
quote:
Proper warming up and pitch counts are much better at preventing arm issues
in a round about way we are agreeing on this. like i said earlier if taught correctly and not over used its great at the age i am dealing with.
the biggest problem with youth pitchers is over using them. these kids need a rest and recovery period.
i will give an example. last year the opposing teams pitcher pitched a hell of a game with curves and fastballs. then he got tired and we rocked his world. after game the dad and coach made him pitch to them until "he got it right"! all i could do not to confront dad for that b.s.
its all about being responsible and taking care of a childs arm.
Posted on 4/15/10 at 4:31 pm to STEVED00
quote:
STEVED00
good discussion here.
got to have 7yo hit some wiffle balls off a tee. yall have a good one
Posted on 4/15/10 at 4:40 pm to MsandLa
Yes sir!
Posted on 4/15/10 at 6:43 pm to STEVED00
The thing about a changeup at the Little League level is that the hitters aren't actually good enough for a changeup to work. You have to be somewhat sophisticated--enough to recognize arm-speed--for a changeup to be effective. And a changeup never works unless you are throwing it off a good fastball. So, I think a changeup in Little League actually helps the hitters, by speeding up their bats. Chances are they weren't hitting a good fastball anyway. A curveball, however, can make a youngster look stupid.
However, I think relying on a curveball might make things a little too easy for the pitcher. They might have more immediate success, but not really learn how to locate their fastball as well as if they threw it more often. A kid who throws only fastballs might sacrifice a little success at the Little League level, but might actually develop into a better pitcher in the long-term because he had to learn how to work up/down and in/out.
I'll probably have my son throw mostly fastballs in games, with the occasional curve when he really needs an out. We'll work on the change and curve more in the backyard until he gets in high school.
However, I think relying on a curveball might make things a little too easy for the pitcher. They might have more immediate success, but not really learn how to locate their fastball as well as if they threw it more often. A kid who throws only fastballs might sacrifice a little success at the Little League level, but might actually develop into a better pitcher in the long-term because he had to learn how to work up/down and in/out.
I'll probably have my son throw mostly fastballs in games, with the occasional curve when he really needs an out. We'll work on the change and curve more in the backyard until he gets in high school.
Posted on 4/15/10 at 6:49 pm to barry
Depends on the maturity of the pitcher. Early puberty means probably around thirteen, late I would say fifteen.
Posted on 4/15/10 at 6:50 pm to Hot Carl
I was a catcher all growing up. When we got into the 13-14 league is when the pitchers could actually throw a good accurate curve.
Posted on 4/15/10 at 7:02 pm to iwyLSUiwy
I actually started throwing a curve when I was 11. I learned mine from a very good Dixie Youth coach. It was more 12:30-6:30, with very little snap. It kinda just rolled out of my hand. And it was pretty filthy for that age. Just ask Dale Murphy who fell victim to it on more than 1 occasion. 
Posted on 4/15/10 at 7:21 pm to barry
I wish the kids were taught earlier so that I could have learned how to fricking hit one at an earlier age. I thought I was hot shite till I started playing in all-star leagues when i was 16 and had no clue how to recognize a curve ball or slider out of the pitcher's hand.
Posted on 4/15/10 at 7:25 pm to barry
AA ball.
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