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Message
re: GoT S7 E3 Thread: 'The Queen's Justice' Maester Thread
Posted on 8/2/17 at 4:39 pm to cgrand
Posted on 8/2/17 at 4:39 pm to cgrand
quote:
volod
there is a 100% chance he was just awkwardly trying to fit in with the cool kids. i wouldn't hold it against him
It is pretty well known on this site what posting Game of Thrones spoilers will do, so volod should know better.
0
Posted on 8/2/17 at 4:42 pm to ladytiger118
quote:
IMO I give D&D kudos for not putting the Faegon storyline in the show. It was pretty pointless and I don't see what value it has in the books anyway.
My issue isn't leaving out the FAegon story. My issue is them completely changing Varys' character. He is the most genuine character in the show, while he's as big of a diabolical liar as LF in the books.
Posted on 8/2/17 at 4:45 pm to OMLandshark
Varys and LF both serve little purpose right now in the show. The only way Varys has helped Dany so far is getting the Olena and the Sand Snakes to team up but that was back in season 6. And LF is mouthing off BS now.
Posted on 8/2/17 at 4:50 pm to OMLandshark
quote:
He is the most genuine character in the show, while he's as big of a diabolical liar as LF in the books
I beieleve in the books he supports Aegon. Nothing points me the other way. He smuggled out Tryion despite him knowing how big a player he is, tries to keep Ned alive and do some right.
Posted on 8/2/17 at 4:51 pm to 1BamaRTR
quote:
Varys and LF both serve little purpose right now in the show. The only way Varys has helped Dany so far is getting the Olena and the Sand Snakes to team up but that was back in season 6. And LF is mouthing off BS now.
This is the big difference what I think will be in the show and the books: The show the end game is dethroning Cersei and beating the White Walkers. In the books I think Cersei will be dead by the end of WoW, so the endgame for that will be defeating the Others and the War of the 3 Hands, which are Tyrion, LF, and Varys.
LF is focused on the North, Varys on the South, while Tyrion is the one who will actually give a shite and try to conquer the Seven Kingdoms simply by saving it from the Others.
Posted on 8/2/17 at 4:57 pm to cascadia
quote:
I beieleve in the books he supports Aegon.
That's because Aegon is in all likelihood his nephew. Sure Aegon will be technically "ruling" but it's Varys who will truly pull the strings.
quote:
He smuggled out Tryion despite him knowing how big a player he is
Well, he needed Tyrion for one specific reason: Get Dany's dragons. There's no doubt in my mind that if Dany had gone off to Pentos instead of Slaver's Bay, Illyrio would have killed her and given her dragons to Aegon. He needs Tyrion to train the dragons to bring them to Westeros, and once Varys has them secured, he will kill both Dany and Tyrion. I think Tyrion suspects this though and won't allow it to happen.
quote:
tries to keep Ned alive and do some right.
He tries to keep Ned alive since his plans are not ready to come to fruition. He wants the North's armies to fight Stannis and Renly who would have him immediately beheaded and ruin his plans. The only reason he joins with Tyrion in the first place is because of Stannis, who would be the ultimate disaster to his plan. After that he's wanted the realm to fall apart so Aegon can take the throne. I do not believe Varys in the slightest that he wants to do what is right when it's implied he's a serial child killer and mutilator.
Posted on 8/2/17 at 5:09 pm to ladytiger118
quote:I've thought about that, but where would Jaime be allowed to go? The Wall probably won't exist, it's purpose eliminated, and I don't think she'd let him go be Lord of Casterly Rock. Maybe if he married Brienne, they'd let him go be lord of Tarth, since she has no siblings. He could change his name to tarth and it would be all progressive n stuff.
And that's where Tyrion comes into play. I think Tyrion will try and convince Dany not to execute him and that Jaime is rational.
But it ain't gonna happen. He killed Dany's father, evil as he was, while a member of the KG, and led armies against her. Sorry, ladies, but I don't think Jaime is making it to the end of this story.
BTW, I wonder if it's ever going to be feasible for the Starks to find out that the sword Brienne carries is made from their father's melted down sword. I think Jaime is the only one left that knows. Does Brienne know? I can't remember.
Posted on 8/2/17 at 5:11 pm to blueboy
quote:
but where would Jaime be allowed to go?
Fight the White Walkers.
quote:
But it ain't gonna happen. He killed Dany's father, evil as he was, while a member of the KG, and led armies against her. Sorry, ladies, but I don't think Jaime is making it to the end of this story.
Yeah, but that doesn't mean he's killed by Dany or Cersei. He can go down heroically.
quote:
BTW, I wonder if it's ever going to be feasible for the Starks to find out that the sword Brienne carries is made from their father's melted down sword. I think Jaime is the only one left that knows. Does Brienne know? I can't remember.
I think Jaime told her that what better weapon to protect Catelyn Stark's daughters than with Ned Stark's sword. Also in the books Sansa is aware that they melted down Ned's sword for Widow's Wail.
This post was edited on 8/2/17 at 5:13 pm
Posted on 8/2/17 at 5:35 pm to OMLandshark
quote:
My issue isn't leaving out the FAegon story. My issue is them completely changing Varys' character. He is the most genuine character in the show, while he's as big of a diabolical liar as LF in the books.
To be fair, his character needs to be changed without the fAegon storyline. Assuming our suspicions regarding fAegon are true, than Varys is pushing his own interests. However, if we drop that part of the plot, it makes more sense for his character to be as presented on the show.
Posted on 8/2/17 at 5:36 pm to 1BamaRTR
And don't forget getting Tyrion to Dany.
Posted on 8/2/17 at 5:39 pm to ohiovol
quote:
To be fair, his character needs to be changed without the fAegon storyline. Assuming our suspicions regarding fAegon are true, than Varys is pushing his own interests. However, if we drop that part of the plot, it makes more sense for his character to be as presented on the show.
Yeah, it's tricky and I forgive them for that. I don't know what I would do with this.
Posted on 8/2/17 at 5:40 pm to OMLandshark
quote:No, I think that's what will happen. I was just addressing her point of whether or not Dany would let her live. I think he and Brienne die together, but he won't be fighting well.
Yeah, but that doesn't mean he's killed by Dany or Cersei. He can go down heroically.
That's a part of the show that I don't like. In the books, he becomes at least competent with his left. On the show, he's worthless. After all, the Halfhand became pretty good with his left. It was even talked about in the book. I think part of Jaime's redemption in the books was to become pretty good with his left.
Posted on 8/2/17 at 5:48 pm to OMLandshark
quote:
I expect Arrianne will be the main POV character with Aegon.
Ugh, the one character I couldn't wait to see on the screen was Arianne. Can you imagine the smokeshow that they would have cast to play that part?
Posted on 8/2/17 at 5:59 pm to VinegarStrokes
Just thought about something: If the Ironborn come back to Dragonstone, Jon could meet with Theon. That could be intense.
Posted on 8/2/17 at 6:07 pm to VinegarStrokes
quote:I don't think Dorne will completely disappear, so we might finally see her. I don't know how they'll explain it, since we've never seen or heard of her, but I think Dorne will be heard from again, and the other two Sand Hos are dead.
Ugh, the one character I couldn't wait to see on the screen was Arianne. Can you imagine the smokeshow that they would have cast to play that part?
Posted on 8/2/17 at 6:37 pm to blueboy
At least Tyene is pretty to look at 
Posted on 8/2/17 at 6:38 pm to WicKed WayZ
quote:
At least Tyene is pretty to look at
Not anymore, especially from Ellaria.
Posted on 8/2/17 at 6:43 pm to OMLandshark
Posted on 8/2/17 at 6:52 pm to OMLandshark
Well, the Varys is a Blackfyre and fAegon is his sister's son thing is a pretty well accepted theory and I think it's right.
But I don't think that necessarily means that Varys doesn't want the good of the realm as part of his goals. Otherwise, why have fAegon trained as he was - sewing his own clothes, fishing for his own food, living among the regular folks, etc.?
My memory of the books is getting dim. Was it absolutely established that Varys was killing his little birds as they grew?
But I don't think that necessarily means that Varys doesn't want the good of the realm as part of his goals. Otherwise, why have fAegon trained as he was - sewing his own clothes, fishing for his own food, living among the regular folks, etc.?
My memory of the books is getting dim. Was it absolutely established that Varys was killing his little birds as they grew?
Posted on 8/2/17 at 7:01 pm to Methuselah
quote:
But I don't think that necessarily means that Varys doesn't want the good of the realm as part of his goals.
He's like Tywin. Tywin says that he wants the good of the realm, but he only wants the good of the realm when it's under his thumb. He doesn't give a single shite about the innocent, and neither does Varys. Varys just wants power and revenge. If the smallfolk are in good condition, then it's simply gravy.
And lets not forget Varys is an implied serial child killer.
quote:
Otherwise, why have fAegon trained as he was - sewing his own clothes, fishing for his own food, living among the regular folks, etc.?
I had an old crackpot theory about this long ago.
quote:
I've been thinking about Varys' riddle to Tyrion, and really I think its the key behind Varys game. In case you all don't remember:
quote:
"In a room sit three great men, a king, a priest, and a rich man with his gold. Between them stands a sellsword, a little man of common birth and no great mind. Each of the great ones bids him slay the other two. 'Do it,' says the king, 'for I am your lawful ruler.' 'Do it,' says the priest, 'for I command you in the names of the gods.' 'Do it,' says the rich man, 'and all this gold shall be yours.' So tell me- who lives and who dies?"
His answer of course was:
quote:
“Power resides where men believe it resides. No more no less. It's a murmers trick. A shadow on the wall... yet shadows can kill."
I really think that Varys is referring to his goal with Aegon. All 3 reasons are why people will follow Aegon, Varys is convinced. People like John Connington will follow him for he is seen and believed to be the rightful heir to the throne and the answer for the vicious Lannister alliance.
People will follow him because the Faith will eventually denounce Robert's bastards as abominations born of incest and that it is in the God's will that Aegon return to the throne. Even though I don't think Varys could foresee this, the Faith Militant will support Aegon's claim from the Gods themselves.
The Golden Company is following him of course for money. What everyone else doesn't know is that select members of the Golden Company know Aegon's true birth, and its vengeance of House Blackfyre in Westeros.
Therefore Aegon's power resides from three places, and thus Aegon himself is the correct answer to the Riddle. The general sellsword is a representative of the people of Westeros, and Varys sees Aegon as the other three men in the room, which ensures his victory in the War. But as Varys said as well, this is merely all a trick. Aegon really has no claim, but yet he has now become all three men at once. He's a shadow that has come back to take over Westeros, making the Targaryens and the Lannisters pay for their past sins.
quote:
My memory of the books is getting dim. Was it absolutely established that Varys was killing his little birds as they grew?
It's implied that he kills the ones he's not favorable with. The ones Varys actually likes once they grow up he sends to Illyrio. It's why none of Illyrio's servants talk to Tyrion.
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