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2
Posted on 10/21/19 at 9:40 am to biglego
And this is where playing with formula paid off IMHO.
The closest the heroes had gotten to defeat before this was Civil War, where Zemo used internal tensions to tear the Avengers in part.
Infinity War? That ending was a massive gut punch to an audience. “Mr Stark? I don’t feel so good...”
The closest the heroes had gotten to defeat before this was Civil War, where Zemo used internal tensions to tear the Avengers in part.
Infinity War? That ending was a massive gut punch to an audience. “Mr Stark? I don’t feel so good...”
Posted on 10/21/19 at 9:47 am to RollTide1987
quote:
Lucas and other filmmakers from that generation might have been inspired into the entertainment industry by those Saturday matinee serials, but I’m sure they’d be the first to tell you that Flash Gordon wasn’t high quality storytelling.
But Scorcese's comment would also leave out something like Up or Spirited Away.... which are both legitimate great storytelling.
That's why his comment is general "get off my lawn" more than anything else.
Posted on 10/21/19 at 10:26 am to Freauxzen
quote:
But Scorcese's comment would also leave out something like Up or Spirited Away.... which are both legitimate great storytelling.
Where do you get that idea? He was asked about the MCU specifically.
Posted on 10/21/19 at 10:27 am to RLDSC FAN
He’s absolutely right. Its formulaic crap for kids and comic book nerds
Posted on 10/21/19 at 11:24 am to BCMCubs
quote:
He’s absolutely right. Its formulaic crap for kids and comic book nerds
Scorsese movies are very formulaic, with the exception of the shite he steals.
Posted on 10/21/19 at 12:56 pm to RollTide1987
This post was edited on 10/21/19 at 12:57 pm
Posted on 10/21/19 at 1:10 pm to Freauxzen
Scorcese talks the Language of Cinema
There is no "light and shadow" in an animated film. No human glances or gestures.
Animated films are not the "living world recreated." Neither are fantasy films. Or science fiction films.
There is no light in an animated film.
No movement. No physicality which seems imperative to his "cinema." And his big rub on Marvel films are green screens, actors aren't acting with each other. Well, animated films?
Now, why he's somewhat of an old, angry guy, he does say "I mean, it seems to be with us. Well, 30,000 years ago in the cave paintings at Chauvet, as you can see here." So we draws connections to life simulations, drawings, but doesn't leave much room for it in his definition.
Can't do this either in any animated film, or any film with a green screen. or ANY film with painted fantasy backgrounds, etc.
Granted, he does say cinema is "gone," but again, he should be saying that about everything. It's just weird to point out Superhero films, as if they are the culprit. And it's kind of sad, because cinema is still fine. The past few years have seen excellent releases across the board, even in the vein of the most realistic, life-mimicking film out there.
quote:
And over the years, I know now that the warmth of that connection with my family and with the images up on the screen gave me something very precious. Because we were experiencing something fundamental together. We were living through the emotional truths on the screen together, often in coded form, these films from the '40s and '50s. Sometimes they were expressed in small things - gestures, glances, reactions between the characters, light, shadow. I mean, we experience these things that we normally couldn't discuss or wouldn't discuss, or even acknowledge in our lives.
There is no "light and shadow" in an animated film. No human glances or gestures.
quote:
And as we entered, for me I think now, it was like entering a sacred space, a kind of a sanctuary where the living world around me seemed to be recreated and played out.
Animated films are not the "living world recreated." Neither are fantasy films. Or science fiction films.
quote:
First of all, there's light. Light is at the beginning of cinema, of course. It's fundamental - because it's created with light, and it's still best seen projected in dark rooms where it's the only source of light. But light is also at the beginning of everything. Most creation myths start with darkness, and then the real beginning comes with light - which means the creation of forms. Which leads to distinguishing one thing from another, and ourselves from the rest of the world. Recognizing patterns, similarities, differences, naming things - interpreting the world. Metaphors - seeing one thing in light of something else. Becoming enlightened. So light is at the core of who we are and how we understand ourselves.
There is no light in an animated film.
quote:
And then there's movement. I remember when I was about five or six, somehow I was able to see someone project a 16-millimeter cartoon in a small projector, and I was allowed to look inside the projector. And I saw these little still images passing mechanically through the gate at a very, very steady rate of speed.
No movement. No physicality which seems imperative to his "cinema." And his big rub on Marvel films are green screens, actors aren't acting with each other. Well, animated films?
Now, why he's somewhat of an old, angry guy, he does say "I mean, it seems to be with us. Well, 30,000 years ago in the cave paintings at Chauvet, as you can see here." So we draws connections to life simulations, drawings, but doesn't leave much room for it in his definition.
quote:
It was shot in 1895 and when you watch it, it really is 1895; the way they dress, the way they move. It's now, the present, and it's then at the same time. And that's the third aspect of cinema that makes it so uniquely powerful.
Can't do this either in any animated film, or any film with a green screen. or ANY film with painted fantasy backgrounds, etc.
quote:
But of course, it already was an art form. That started with Lumiere and Melies and Porter. This was just another logical step in the development of the language of cinema. But the cinema we're talking about here - Edison, the Lumiere Brothers, Melies, Porter all the way through Griffith and all the way through Kubrick - that's really almost gone.
Granted, he does say cinema is "gone," but again, he should be saying that about everything. It's just weird to point out Superhero films, as if they are the culprit. And it's kind of sad, because cinema is still fine. The past few years have seen excellent releases across the board, even in the vein of the most realistic, life-mimicking film out there.
Posted on 10/21/19 at 1:13 pm to Freauxzen
He’s probably just clamoring for Feige to offer him a Kingpin film.
Posted on 10/21/19 at 1:39 pm to RLDSC FAN
quote:
we expect to learn something from cinema, we expect to gain something, some enlightenment, some knowledge, some inspiration.
could his head be any further up his own arse? The only thing that should be expected from cinema is to be entertained. If people go to the movie and are entertained, it's done its job.
I don't like comic book movies, never been my thing and I haven't seen one in ages. But I don't turn my nose down at people that like them either. The only thing I will do that for is the dullards that went to the movies to see every "epic movie", "disaster movie", "spartan movie", etc that came out back to back to back years back that for some reason unknown to me actually got people to go see them.
Posted on 10/21/19 at 1:44 pm to WG_Dawg
quote:
we expect to learn something from cinema, we expect to gain something, some enlightenment, some knowledge, some inspiration.
This is from the guy that directed the video for Bad?
Posted on 10/21/19 at 3:13 pm to ThanosIsADemocrat
I wonder why these great filmmakers keep calling out Marvel instead of the elephant in the room which is Disney. After all, Disney are the ones who are bankrolling the Marvel films and Disney is the company that keeps trotting out tired remakes and reboots and all of these formulaic films. I would argue Disney has been much more harmful to the film industry than Marvel has been.
Posted on 10/21/19 at 3:22 pm to WG_Dawg
quote:
The only thing that should be expected from cinema is to be entertained. If people go to the movie and are entertained, it's done its job.
100% wrong.
Entertainment is only one aspect of cinema. There is not just one thing cinema should be expected to do. Cinema can entertain us, but it can also challenge us. The two defining films of 1993 were Jurassic Park and Schindler's List. Both films were directed by the same guy, both films did something completely different. One was made for entertainment, the other was made to challenge us with a compelling true story from history.
Posted on 10/21/19 at 5:51 pm to biglego
quote:
Infinity War had some emotional heft.
When the credits rolled, the theater was silent. More emotional and jolting than most movies
To be fair, Tony Stark, Cap, etc. had like a 10 movie character arc (just guessing, not gonna go count the movies they were in). I would hope it would hold some emotional heft at the end.
Posted on 10/21/19 at 6:55 pm to GreatLakesTiger24
So he didn’t watch them, but speaks about them as an expert, got it, I won’t watch any of them, because some old cocksmoker turned a movie off.
Posted on 10/21/19 at 10:35 pm to Freauxzen
What bothers me about Scorsese's comments is that superhero films are the western films of the day: popular genre films which overwhelm the market and draw in a majority of the eyeballs. And it was Scorsese and others like him (especially the French New Wave) who argued on behalf of genre filmmakers like John Ford and Alfred Hitchcock as more than just mere entertainers pushing product.
And now, at the end of his career, he is turning his back on the next generation of genre filmmakers instead of showing the same generosity of spirit. I mean, Spielberg is perhaps the greatest director of my lifetime, and he made adventure movies and children's films. Is Scorsese going to crap over an "amusement park" like the Indiana Jones films?
And now, at the end of his career, he is turning his back on the next generation of genre filmmakers instead of showing the same generosity of spirit. I mean, Spielberg is perhaps the greatest director of my lifetime, and he made adventure movies and children's films. Is Scorsese going to crap over an "amusement park" like the Indiana Jones films?
Posted on 10/21/19 at 10:52 pm to Baloo
Low iq take, plenty of westerns were quality and people that had passion and a vision for their job working on them, i don’t know why you people just don’t get over it and accept that marvel is nothing to be respected and just a cash grab. You guys are everything that is wrong with the film industry today
Posted on 10/22/19 at 8:47 am to kale
I think Kale likes the westerns like Brokeback Mountain, if you fellow low IQers know what I mean. And that’s fine, I like good jokes, good old fashioned punch-in-the-face contests, and fictitious places/apocalyptic settings, to each their own I guess.
Posted on 10/22/19 at 9:41 am to Baloo
quote:
And now, at the end of his career, he is turning his back on the next generation of genre filmmakers instead of showing the same generosity of spirit. I mean, Spielberg is perhaps the greatest director of my lifetime, and he made adventure movies and children's films. Is Scorsese going to crap over an "amusement park" like the Indiana Jones films?
This is where his comparison falls apart. Not every film deals with deep, psychological human emotion in a dramatic and serious way. His argument about cinema is WAY too constrictive. Animated films are the easy bounce back, but look at comedies.
Doers Airplane or Blazing Saddles fit any of what he says outside of movement and light? (And movement in some comedies can be very inhuman.) If film that people can be "entertained by" aka, his "amusement park," is his limit, that's a good chunk of film left out.
Posted on 10/22/19 at 9:55 am to Freauxzen
Sounds an awful lot like Scorsese’s argument is “What I make is cinema, nothing else counts.”
Is he going to argue that Boxcar Bertha, The Last Waltz, Shine A Light, etc, have more artistic merit than, say, The Dark Knight?
Is he going to argue that Boxcar Bertha, The Last Waltz, Shine A Light, etc, have more artistic merit than, say, The Dark Knight?
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