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re: The official Interstellar thread (spoilers)
Posted on 12/1/14 at 2:23 pm to OMLandshark
Posted on 12/1/14 at 2:23 pm to OMLandshark
quote:
This is starting to remind me of when Inception came out, we endlessly debated whether or not the top stayed up or fell, when as I think most of us here at least now realize was irrelevant to the story at large, and all that matters is that Cobb has found peace.
Not even remotely IMO. The top is pretty irrelevant to Inception, like you said. But Interstellar is a bit deeper than Inception, so these random "fifth dimensional beings" are absolutely relevant to the entire plot of the movie. If "they/we" are end-all/be-all beings that can manipulate and access space and time infinitely, then it seems a bit unnecessary to have Cooper get on a ship and try to "save the world" when these things are clearly capable of doing just that. You, yourself, even said that they are "god-like" beings in a way. So how can you disagree that it's one of the biggest deux ex machina devices of all time?
1
Posted on 12/1/14 at 2:27 pm to CocomoLSU
I think one of the lines between cooper and his father in law on the porch kind of sums up the movie as well.
he's talking about how man used to look to the stars and blah blah blah, then something about now we just worry about our place in the dirt.
The 5th dimension folks wanted to push mankind to stop just trying to survive, they wanted mankind to advance.
he's talking about how man used to look to the stars and blah blah blah, then something about now we just worry about our place in the dirt.
The 5th dimension folks wanted to push mankind to stop just trying to survive, they wanted mankind to advance.
Posted on 12/1/14 at 2:28 pm to Volvagia
quote:
Then you missed the entire point of the movie.
It was never about the survival of humanity.
It was about the power of aspiration, and how crippled we are without it.
If humanity was to die, it would have only been because people gave up. In ANY interpretation or multiple time line argument.
"Do not go gentle into that good night. Rage, rage, against the dying of the light."
Wait, what?
The entire point of the film is VERY human. It's inherently "human." And the survival of "humanity" is the key point for the entire thing. The whole point was that we, as humans, are unwilling to simply "go gently into the night." We try, at all costs, to survive and persevere. And how we aspire to be great and do great things, especially in the midst of our species potentially dying out. It's about our journey and attempts to maintain our species, even if it means sacrificing everyone on earth and starting anew on a new planet in a different galaxy.
I'm not sure how you can tell someone they missed the entire point of the movie, and then turn around and say it isn't about human survival.
Posted on 12/1/14 at 2:32 pm to Volvagia
quote:
Then you missed the entire point of the movie. It was never about the survival of humanity. It was about the power of aspiration, and how crippled we are without it. If humanity was to die, it would have only been because people gave up. In ANY interpretation or multiple time line argument.
I took the main characters thinking/point of the mission. Originally, to save mankind, and then yes, the power of aspiration/actually wanting to save family, friends, earths race. Realizing the point when Coop realized the point or when it was revealed to the audience in general. That doesnt change the fact that I can disagree with the opinion that mankind didn't die at all.
This post was edited on 12/1/14 at 2:34 pm
Posted on 12/1/14 at 2:35 pm to OMLandshark
quote:
I think if you got the concept of a 5th dimensional being, you would not be asking how they got there. It's just that they got there, and it's as simple as that. I don't care how it happened, it's just that it happened. Murphy's Law.
First of all, can we agree that M'sL is basically about things going wrong? I know the movie tried to spin that around to make a little girl feel better, but still..
But that's so expansive and all-encompassing that it basically doesn't explain jack shite. It's like the kid asking why something is the way that it is, and the parent saying "Because I said so." It's such a copout "answer."
Oh, it doesn't matter how "they" happened, and the only important thing is that they did? Well then why even attempt to understand the movie at all then? It's like the phrase "It is what it is"...it's one of least favorite phrases to ever exist. And certainly not the best explanation of anything ever.
It's great that you blindly love the movie and don't need any sort of explanation, but a lot of people do/will. And if the only "explanation" is "well, just because," then don't expect people to love that and fawn all over the movie and its fairly ridiculous ending.
And don't get me wrong, it;s a very ambitious ending, and I'm not even sure anybody could've executed that particular ending better than Nolan, but the movie suffers because of it.
Posted on 12/1/14 at 2:44 pm to CocomoLSU
quote:
The entire point of the film is VERY human. It's inherently "human." And the survival of "humanity" is the key point for the entire thing. The whole point was that we, as humans, are unwilling to simply "go gently into the night." We try, at all costs, to survive and persevere. And how we aspire to be great and do great things, especially in the midst of our species potentially dying out. It's about our journey and attempts to maintain our species, even if it means sacrificing everyone on earth and starting anew on a new planet in a different galaxy.
I wouldn't disagree with most of what you were saying. It's in line with what I said. And I can sit here and list the points of dialague given in the movie that states this was the purpose.
I didn't say that the stakes of the survival of humanity as we know it isn't major to the story.
I was talking to the guy who said that it was literally the entire message of the movie. At no point is the movie really a quest to save humanity.
It is far more personal than that. Its about the loved ones behind, and the promises made. If was really just a genetics/species thing....then just do Plan B and have done, like what Brand intended.
The main part where I would disagree with you is here:
quote:
The whole point was that we, as humans, are unwilling to simply "go gently into the night." We try, at all costs, to survive and persevere. And how we aspire to be great and do great things, especially in the midst of our species potentially dying out.
Not that it isn't true....but that it isn't covering everything. A HUGE point of the story are the ones who didn't do that. Who basically gave up. And I am not just talking about Brand and Mann.
I'm talking about the general population as well. That was the whole point of the school teacher sequence earlier in the film.
Posted on 12/1/14 at 2:48 pm to iwyLSUiwy
quote:
I took the main characters thinking/point of the mission. Originally, to save mankind, and then yes, the power of aspiration/actually wanting to save family, friends, earths race. Realizing the point when Coop realized the point or when it was revealed to the audience in general.
Well if the whole movie to you is what Cooper felt, then yes, I can see why you thought the movie a little empty and one sided.
quote:
That doesnt change the fact that I can disagree with the opinion that mankind didn't die at all.
Of course it doesn't.
I never claimed that was the only way to go. And I feel that explaination is a little too shaky for my liking anyway.
I was commenting as to your assertion that if humanity survives anyway, it removes the point of the film.
It doesn't.
Because the 1000 or so we are talking about actually surviving in that scenario only did so because of people like Coop and Murph. Everyone else just stood there staring at the dirt waiting for it to get better.
This post was edited on 12/1/14 at 2:48 pm
Posted on 12/1/14 at 2:51 pm to Volvagia
quote:No point? Really?
At no point is the movie really a quest to save humanity.
Posted on 12/1/14 at 3:01 pm to Volvagia
I sort of see what you're getting at, but to say this:
and this:
..is taking complete liberty with the movie and choosing to ignore basically the major tenet of the movie.
While it does get more personal, and part of it is about people who don't do anything (though not a HUGE part IMO, as you infer), the bottom line is human survival and the preservation of us as a species. It's what drives the plot of the movie, and is why everybody goes on the mission(s), Coop included (though he only does because he thinks he will return to see Murph).
Also, I love how Coop basically only cares about one of his kids.
(and that's a joke, so spare me the explanations of why he loves his son)
quote:
It was never about the survival of humanity.
and this:
quote:
At no point is the movie really a quest to save humanity.
..is taking complete liberty with the movie and choosing to ignore basically the major tenet of the movie.
While it does get more personal, and part of it is about people who don't do anything (though not a HUGE part IMO, as you infer), the bottom line is human survival and the preservation of us as a species. It's what drives the plot of the movie, and is why everybody goes on the mission(s), Coop included (though he only does because he thinks he will return to see Murph).
Also, I love how Coop basically only cares about one of his kids.
(and that's a joke, so spare me the explanations of why he loves his son)
Posted on 12/1/14 at 3:05 pm to AlxTgr
quote:
No point? Really?
Only if you take the Transformers approach of watching movies and turn your brain off and just take the simplest and most obvious reading of everything can you take that view.
The real point of the movie is something a lot deeper.
Perhaps the problem is one of semantics.
I meant the point of the movie.
Not the events of the movie.
I am talking about the director's message.
If you take the perspective of the main characters like you said in an earlier post......Cooper wasn't trying to save humanity. He was trying to save his daughter. The world was a twofer.
Or at least that was what he was telling himself....but that is a big tangent.
Posted on 12/1/14 at 3:07 pm to CocomoLSU
quote:
Also, I love how Coop basically only cares about one of his kids.
The big question is why Tom isn't harboring resentment for not being the favorite.
Posted on 12/1/14 at 3:14 pm to Volvagia
quote:Outstanding
Only if you take the Transformers approach of watching movies and turn your brain off and just take the simplest and most obvious reading of everything can you take that view.
quote:Well, that's better, but I still think you are trying too hard.
I meant the point of the movie.
Not the events of the movie.
Posted on 12/1/14 at 3:26 pm to CocomoLSU
quote:my bad i forgot that dialogue said during situations of lying in movies or books can no longer be seen as important or have another meaning different from the context it was said in. not to mention that line is very popular with mathematical outcomes.
Right, but that was based on lies so you can't apply it.
quote:i also got hit over the head the quote "whatever can happen, will happen" and "we will find a way professor, we always do", which made Caine's line seem even more important. just bc an idea or notion is subtle, doesnt mean it wasnt the intention of the writer. The highly evolved humans could have survived the original timeline at the cost of the entire human race. few could have survived in harsh conditions which in return sped up evolution like microbial communities living in extreme conditions. I understand you might not like the idea but it is plausible for a movie that didn't clearly explain everything little detail. also, this explanation for that does not change or reduce the importance of other themes in the movie.
The movie basically says that as clear as crystal..over and over. The crops are dying out, and the last one (corn) was dying out in another year.
but anyway
quote:there are plenty of things left out of the movie bc it would have taken forever to explain. the viewer just has to do more research to fully understand it. thats why kip's books are good compliments for Interstellar. you should read “Wormholes and Time Machines” from Kip Thorne’s Black Holes and Time Warps. (a chapter that specifically covers the bootstrap paradox) and The science of interstellar, it will give you a better understanding of how closely kip worked with Nolan while writing this script.
Of course it should make sense. We're talking about a movie, not science.
This post was edited on 12/1/14 at 3:28 pm
Posted on 12/1/14 at 3:36 pm to jeff5891
quote:
i also got hit over the head the quote "whatever can happen, will happen" and "we will find a way professor, we always do", which made Caine's line seem even more important. just bc an idea or notion is subtle, doesnt mean it wasnt the intention of the writer. The highly evolved humans could have survived the original timeline at the cost of the entire human race. few could have survived in harsh conditions which in return sped up evolution like microbial communities living in extreme conditions. I understand you might not like the idea but it is plausible for a movie that didn't clearly explain everything little detail. also, this explanation for that does not change or reduce the importance of other themes in the movie.
Of course not. But I was responding solely to the "what if humans did end up surviving on earth as-is." I don't think it's debatable within the context of the film that it wasn't impossible for us to survive on earth...it was barren and could no longer sustain human life. That isn't an "It only has to work once" scenario. The movie very clearly laid out that humans, as a species, were doomed on earth.
quote:
there are plenty of things left out of the movie bc it would have taken forever to explain. the viewer just has to do more research to fully understand it. thats why kip's books are good compliments for Interstellar. you should read “Wormholes and Time Machines” from Kip Thorne’s Black Holes and Time Warps. (a chapter that specifically covers the bootstrap paradox) and The science of interstellar, it will give you a better understanding of how closely kip worked with Nolan while writing this script.
While I don't disagree that they would likely be helpful, a movie shouldn't have to rely on outside sources to "make it work." If your normal movie-goer (or even one less dumbed down than that) can't walk away from the movie understanding the bulk of it, and has to then turn to outside material for anything to make sense, then the movie, in and of itself, has failed IMO (the exceptions I guess being people who don't care if anything makes sense and are just pleased with pretty scenery, explosions, and whatnot).
The fact that you are referencing me to books and other material sort of helps my argument that the movie itself fell flat.
This post was edited on 12/1/14 at 3:37 pm
Posted on 12/1/14 at 3:41 pm to CocomoLSU
What did the people on the space stations eat?
Posted on 12/1/14 at 3:45 pm to Esquire
Star-Crunch, amirite?
:rimshot2:
:rimshot2:
Posted on 12/1/14 at 3:54 pm to Esquire
Soilent Green.
Posted on 12/1/14 at 3:55 pm to CocomoLSU
I would prefer that over corn. I can't stand corn.
Posted on 12/1/14 at 3:59 pm to CocomoLSU
quote:
a movie shouldn't have to rely on outside sources to "make it work."
I tend to agree, but sometimes I will read/research a film to help me perhaps, "understand", some of the subtleties I may have missed. This is one of those films.
Posted on 12/1/14 at 4:09 pm to flvelo12
quote:
but sometimes I will read/research a film to help me perhaps, "understand", some of the subtleties I may have missed.
I do that as well. I'm just saying a movie shouldn't need that.
I've read a TON of shite on this one today, and will likely read more in the days that follow. I just wish it had been a better end to the film, and admittedly I'm not even sure what that would be. I just know I felt a bit let down with how great the first 2 hours were.
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