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re: Who Should Have Played Anakin in Return of the Jedi?
Posted on 9/14/15 at 10:42 pm to OMLandshark
Posted on 9/14/15 at 10:42 pm to OMLandshark
quote:
The original trilogy seems to imply that Owen has a personal vendetta against Obi Wan, and all he's done that we know of is dropping Luke off with them, who they clearly cherish.
I wonder what Obi-Wan said when he dropped him off. Owen was probably pissed that he had another mouth to feed and the wife forced him to take him.
quote:
Episode 3 should have been Episode 2 and we should have gotten some legitimate younger Darth Vader action and Clone Wars stuff in Episode 3.
Episode II should have been about the Clone Wars and ended with Anakin turning into Vader in a hell of a cliff-hanger. Episode III should have been Vader hunting down the Jedi and Obi-Wan trying to change his mind in a second battle. "Obi-Wan once thought as you".
This post was edited on 9/14/15 at 10:47 pm
1
Posted on 9/14/15 at 10:54 pm to JabarkusRussell
quote:
I wonder what Obi-Wan said when he dropped him off. Owen was probably pissed that he had another mouth to feed and the wife forced him to take him.
As I said though, Owen and Beru seemed to be pretty attached to Luke and dependent on him by the time of A New Hope. I don't see this as a reason for Owen despising him. Owen should have been a major character in the prequel trilogy, with him representing Anakin's good side and Obi Wan representing his temptation. I just think Obi Wan should have been blind to what Anakin could become, while Owen did fathom some of the things that the Force could bring him to do, and didn't want Luke to follow down the same path.
quote:
Episode II should have been about the Clone Wars and ended with Anakin turning into Vader in a hell of a cliff-hanger. Episode III should have been Vader hunting down the Jedi and Obi-Wan trying to change his mind in a second battle. "Obi-Wan once thought as you".
I don't think he should have been full fledged Vader at the end of Episode 2, but all the pieces for becoming Vader should have been set, and Episode 3 should have seen them implemented. I think Anakin becoming the head of the Palpatine's personal guards and enforcement would have been the way to end Episode 2, with him being in Vader's suit in the end, minus the mask and his attire being red instead of black.
Posted on 9/15/15 at 12:36 pm to bulldog95
quote:
Maybe obi wan kenobi talked to Owen and let them know who lukes father was
Owen probably caught on when Obi Wan Kenobi gave him a baby named Luke Skywalker.
Owen: "That's weird. My stepmother was a Skywalker. She has a son, but I only met him that one time when he dropped off her corpse. I'm pretty sure he was a Jedi, too."
Obi Wan: "Yeah, this is his kid, but no one ever needs to know about that."
Owen: "No problem. We'll just keep calling him Skywalker. Yeah, his dad grew up here, and sort of became famous for being the first human to win this big race thing we have. And there was that time that his dad went nuts over his mom. She's buried right over there behind the house. That's it, though."
Obi Wan: "Fine, whatever. He's your problem now. Tell him to come get his dad's lightsaber one day."
Posted on 9/15/15 at 1:49 pm to dtmb
quote:
She's buried right over there behind the house.
Oh yeah, brilliant place to have hidden Luke. If Vader is feeling slightly sentimental one day and decides to pay respect to his mother, then Luke and his family are screwed. I'd say even over a childhood home, a parent's grave is probably the most likely place for a person to return at least once in their life. Luke probably would have been safer literally anywhere else.
Posted on 9/15/15 at 9:22 pm to OMLandshark
quote:If you stop and think about it, this was the most poorly written part of the prequels.
Oh yeah, brilliant place to have hidden Luke. If Vader is feeling slightly sentimental one day and decides to pay respect to his mother, then Luke and his family are screwed. I'd say even over a childhood home, a parent's grave is probably the most likely place for a person to return at least once in their life. Luke probably would have been safer literally anywhere else.
After watching them, it's very hard to accept that Vader didn't at least consider going and taking a little trip planetside after capturing the princess, especially once the droids went down there.
And assuming he gets progress reports at all, you can't tell me "hey boss, we've traced them back to a homestead registered to Owen Lars. We torched the place pretty good" doesn't result in an accidental force-choke of half the bridge crew, and an immediate trip down in his shuttle to see who is desecrating mama's grave. The unexpected connection to her should have triggered a white-hot rage.
Posted on 9/15/15 at 9:38 pm to Scoob
I read an EU-type explanation on Wookiepedia, but didn't save the link and not sure it's worth linking here.
Posted on 9/15/15 at 9:43 pm to Scoob
quote:
If you stop and think about it, this was the most poorly written part of the prequels.
Not to mention the fact that C-3PO apparently lived with Owen for years and he didn't recognize him when he saw him.
quote:
After watching them, it's very hard to accept that Vader didn't at least consider going and taking a little trip planetside after capturing the princess, especially once the droids went down there.
Yeah, from the Vader we see in "The Empire Strikes Back", I think he'd almost certainly go down there and rough the entire planet up until he got the droids he was looking for. He would have made a stop at the ranch regardless just to pay his respects to his mother, and guise it as just saying he had a lead that the droids were there. I mean, if you're in your home town that you haven't visited in 20 years, how many people wouldn't stop off at their parents' grave simply out of nostalgia, even if you despised them just to literally spit on their grave?
quote:
And assuming he gets progress reports at all, you can't tell me "hey boss, we've traced them back to a homestead registered to Owen Lars. We torched the place pretty good" doesn't result in an accidental force-choke of half the bridge crew, and an immediate trip down in his shuttle to see who is desecrating mama's grave. The unexpected connection to her should have triggered a white-hot rage.
Well, if the prequels were canon, I doubt Vader would care all that much if the Stormtroopers killed Owen and Beru, especially since he would have thought they were harboring the Death Star plans. I doubt he remembers all that much on what they looked like. He just stopped in for a day and probably had about 2 or 3 hours worth of interaction with them tops. For the Vader we know, it would have simply been Tuesday to him, although he might get pissed if the Stormtroopers messed up his mother's grave.
But from what was implied in the trilogy, I assumed before watching Episode I that Owen and Anakin were brothers. While I was too young to evaluate it to this degree at the time, I think it would have been a safe assumption from the information given to us in the trilogy that Owen fled to a far corner in the galaxy with Luke to hide him from his brother, with Obi Wan reluctantly in tow in case the Empire ever found them for protection. I don't think they ever referred to Owen by his last name in the original trilogy, and I think it would be a safe assumption it was Skywalker. And in this scenario, Vader would have never found out who directly harbored the droids, since it seems as if the stormtrooper simply just bombed them.
This post was edited on 9/15/15 at 9:51 pm
Posted on 9/15/15 at 9:53 pm to OMLandshark
So is it universally understood that Qui-Gon Jinn fricked everything up - by not somehow liberating Anakin's mother?
Posted on 9/15/15 at 9:57 pm to OMLandshark
quote:I agree, I don't think that would have bothered him.
I doubt Vader would care all that much if the Stormtroopers killed Owen and Beru
But the issue of his mother's grave is another story. Her death is what unleashed the Dark Side in him, so any emotional attachment to her wouldn't be suppressed, it would likely be amplified. He might go psycho-killer again, at the mention of her grave. And he knew where he buried her...
quote:yeah, that's the sense I got too. And fleeing to that miserable desert planet, constantly keeping Luke from contact with Obi Wan and the greater galaxy etc; all that fit into the "we're hiding from Darth Vader" scheme a lot better than what they dumped on us. Owen knew; "that's what I'm afraid of".
But from what was implied in the trilogy, I assumed before watching Episode I that Owen and Anakin were brothers.
Posted on 9/15/15 at 10:08 pm to Scoob
quote:
But the issue of his mother's grave is another story. Her death is what unleashed the Dark Side in him, so any emotional attachment to her wouldn't be suppressed, it would likely be amplified. He might go psycho-killer again, at the mention of her grave. And he knew where he buried her...
Yeah, I agree. Owen and Beru, no shits given and he'd congratulate them for killing them. Desecrating his mother's grave though, they'd all be killed.
quote:
yeah, that's the sense I got too. And fleeing to that miserable desert planet, constantly keeping Luke from contact with Obi Wan and the greater galaxy etc; all that fit into the "we're hiding from Darth Vader" scheme a lot better than what they dumped on us. Owen knew; "that's what I'm afraid of".
Yep. Owen should have been a much larger role of the prequels rather than just a cameo appearance. I'm thinking that Anakin and Owen should have been orphans with Anakin always being a protective brother over Owen and keeping him safe. The two of them would turn into smugglers, Owen much more reluctantly than Anakin. Then Obi Wan enters their lives and is totally reckless with Anakin's training, with Owen knowing his brother is simply becoming a Jedi for glory and power. Obi Wan wouldn't listen to any of Owen's warnings though, which leads to Anakin's inevitable doom when he's tempted by the dark side due to it's perceived power.
So it would make sense that while Owen would want Obi Wan to be at a distance from him and Luke just in case the Empire ever found them, he would never, ever want them directly interacting in fears that teaching Luke the power of the Force would lead to the same power hungry nature that his brother had.
Posted on 9/15/15 at 10:45 pm to JabarkusRussell
You don't get it or understand. The years are not off. They had the spice, which made them live longer. Much more time passed than you realize.
Posted on 9/16/15 at 12:15 am to OMLandshark
quote:
Not to mention the fact that C-3PO apparently lived with Owen for years and he didn't recognize him when he saw him.
Did you not see Sith? His memory was wiped.
quote:
So is it universally understood that Qui-Gon Jinn fricked everything up - by not somehow liberating Anakin's mother?
Anakin still would have flipped when she died.
Another error is the fact that Vader didn't sense any of Padme in Leia on the Death Star when he interrogated her. Meanwhile, he can sense Obi-Wan's presence.
This post was edited on 9/16/15 at 12:17 am
Posted on 9/16/15 at 6:22 am to JabarkusRussell
quote:
Did you not see Sith? His memory was wiped.
I'm talking about the other way around, in that Owen wouldn't remember him.
Posted on 9/16/15 at 8:43 am to Scoob
There's a short story written "When the Desert Wind Turns: The Stormtrooper's Tale" that details the execution of Owen when they were searching for the droids. Vader oversaw the interrogation and ultimately gave the order via hologram. He definitely despised Owen for not protecting his mother from being taken.
Posted on 9/16/15 at 8:55 am to cleeveclever
quote:
Totally agree with that. Anakin as a kid was absolutely pointless. It was purely so we could see these wacky hijinks and remind us that once Darth Vader was a precocious, toe-headed little boy.
Having a boy Anakin for the first movie could have worked had it been darker. Imagine him being a true slave and kept in cages and mistreated. He's discovered for what he is and busted out by the Jedi and as the movies play out, he's mentally scarred from his traumatic childhood and plays a big part in his fall.
The problem with boy Anakin in the actual movies is that the kid is supposed to be a slave but he's clean, well fed, comes and goes as he pleases, is happy as can be and has a pretty cool life. It was stupid.
Posted on 9/16/15 at 9:20 am to JabarkusRussell
quote:
Anakin still would have flipped when she died.
You're saying even if she had died peacefully at an old age Anakin still would have flipped?
I thought that the separation from her kind of planted the seed of anger that bloomed into rage with her torture and death?
I'm no master though only a pad wan.
Posted on 9/16/15 at 9:21 am to OMLandshark
quote:The only (somewhat) plausible explanation would be that protocol droids looks the same - remember in the initial chaos aboard the Tantive IV, there is a silver colored protocol droid that looks identical to 3PO.
I'm talking about the other way around, in that Owen wouldn't remember him.
I don't think that 3PO ever introduces himself until it is to Luke in the shed. So without hearing the name, maybe Owen just assumed it was a protocol droid that was like the one that they used to own.
Posted on 9/16/15 at 9:48 am to JabarkusRussell
quote:
The scene where they show his face for the first time used to scare me when I was a kid.
Posted on 9/16/15 at 10:00 am to OMLandshark
quote:
I'm talking about the other way around, in that Owen wouldn't remember him.
C3P0 was just another droid to Owen. I don't remember I 3P0 said his name to Owen in A New Hope, but Owen doesn't have the same level of emotional attachment to the droid as the audience. It doesn't help maters that C3P0 had entirely new plating by the fourth film.
Posted on 9/16/15 at 12:18 pm to Matisyeezy
quote:
Idris Elba.
quote:
Yeah but he's black.
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