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re: How far can a Ingram led team take us?
Posted on 6/13/23 at 9:57 am to Soggymoss
Posted on 6/13/23 at 9:57 am to Soggymoss
quote:But what is wrong with a Zion-led team with BI as #2? Why trade for the unknown rookie? IS it strictly financial? Because trading either for a draft choice pushes any window further away.
A BI led team has gotten us to:
Missed playoffs
10th seed to play-in game win and out in 1st round
Knocked out in play-in game
A BI led team AT BEST gets to the second round and gets knocked out, thats the ceiling.
This post was edited on 6/13/23 at 9:58 am
Posted on 6/13/23 at 10:02 am to 3PieceSpicy
BI is entering year 8. He has made one all-star team. He has never sniffed an All NBA team. He has never shown the ability to lead a team to a better than .500 record. It's okay to point out that he is a good player but probably will never be "the guy."
Posted on 6/13/23 at 10:07 am to ThePistol
quote:
BI is entering year 8. He has made one all-star team. He has never sniffed an All NBA team. He has never shown the ability to lead a team to a better than .500 record. It's okay to point out that he is a good player but probably will never be "the guy."
He's not supposed to be the guy. He's the second guy.
Khris Middleton has stats that are well under BI, yet he has 3 all star teams b/c of the conference he plays in. He was essential to the Bucks winning a championship, and with his declining play, Milwaukee needs to replace him if they plan on winning another championship b/c Jrue isn't a #2 guy offensively like Middleton has been.
Posted on 6/13/23 at 10:07 am to NOSHAU
Because honestly both have shown a propensity for not staying healthy at all. I don’t want my number one guy playing 20 games and my number two playing 40. Finances are a part of it because with new CBA hard to keep all 3 in BI, CJ and Zion. Lastly, I know Scoot is unknown a bit but if Wemby wasnt in draft and in any other drafts this kid would be number one pick. I would be shocked if he busts.
Posted on 6/13/23 at 10:30 am to NOSHAU
quote:
But what is wrong with a Zion-led team with BI as #2?
The problem for me is not financial, it’s that BI has been touted as the leader and the #1 on this team for the last 3 years, you can’t all of a sudden start touting Zion as the leader and the #1 guy without people getting all up in their feelings and butthurt.
That’s why we have to move him, I don’t see him being willing to move backwards in role/position and being happy about it.
Posted on 6/13/23 at 10:32 am to Soggymoss
Ingram actually acts like a leader though especially off court. Bonding with teammates, dinners, mentoring Trey. Zion is screwing insta whores and cant keep his weight in check. I can see why Pels try to promote BI as the leader of team.
Posted on 6/13/23 at 10:44 am to ThePistol
quote:Correct. He's a #2, which is important, and can be that important #2 for us.
BI is entering year 8. He has made one all-star team. He has never sniffed an All NBA team. He has never shown the ability to lead a team to a better than .500 record. It's okay to point out that he is a good player but probably will never be "the guy."
It's wild that anyone thinks that BI can be a #1 on a title team, that is just not reality.
Posted on 6/13/23 at 11:07 am to Pels_Yaz
What incentive does Zion have to take the reigns and do all that though? He’s been told over and over that Ingram is the leader.
Zion went to Willie when he was hired and told Willie let him know anything he needed including offseason workouts and Zion would work on getting it set up. Then his foot injury happened.
Zion went to Willie when he was hired and told Willie let him know anything he needed including offseason workouts and Zion would work on getting it set up. Then his foot injury happened.
This post was edited on 6/13/23 at 11:09 am
Posted on 6/13/23 at 11:09 am to Soggymoss
The incentive of being a great nba player and one of the greatest players of all time. You don’t need to tell teams to be a leader or be great. You do it yourself. If he started doing what BI was doing off the court, he would already be the leader of the team.
Posted on 6/13/23 at 11:12 am to Soggymoss
I dont know man Im not buying the whole “the team didnt put him as a leader so he didn’t become one” argument. He doesn’t act like a leader off the court. He does his own offseason stuff, is distant(as many teamates have said) and cant even keep his conditioning right.
Posted on 6/13/23 at 11:13 am to Soggymoss
quote:You keep saying this, but I think it is more of an assumption than a fact. I know Griffin did not anoint Zion the leader when he was drafted in order to keep the pressure off. However, I do not recall him saying that BI was the leader of the team (and not Zion).
The problem for me is not financial, it’s that BI has been touted as the leader and the #1 on this team for the last 3 years, you can’t all of a sudden start touting Zion as the leader and the #1 guy without people getting all up in their feelings and butthurt.
That’s why we have to move him, I don’t see him being willing to move backwards in role/position and being happy about it.
Posted on 6/13/23 at 11:22 am to NOSHAU
I think its just teamates and stuff BI does in the offseason with teammates that local reporters report on. Honestly, on his own Zion has done nothing to show hes a leader off the court. BI is constantly working with younger players, going to games with coaching staff(see last nights pic), organinzing off season workouts. Even playing more games than Zion during critical times of the year.
Posted on 6/13/23 at 11:32 am to Pels_Yaz
I definitely don't think BI can be a No. 1 on a title team.
Can Scoot? Probably not.
Can Zion? Talent wise, yes. Personality? No, at least not yet. He's more AD than I could have ever imagined.
If you move him, it's because you realize he's not that guy and never will be.
You have to hope that you get that guy in the draft via a pick swap with Charlotte who is bound to suck even with Zion.
Can Scoot? Probably not.
Can Zion? Talent wise, yes. Personality? No, at least not yet. He's more AD than I could have ever imagined.
If you move him, it's because you realize he's not that guy and never will be.
You have to hope that you get that guy in the draft via a pick swap with Charlotte who is bound to suck even with Zion.
Posted on 6/13/23 at 11:34 am to ghost2most
quote:I get the rest and not trying to leave out the context of what you posted, but this is why I keep Zion at all costs as of right now.
I definitely don't think BI can be a No. 1 on a title team.
Can Scoot? Probably not.
Can Zion? Talent wise, yes
Posted on 6/13/23 at 11:35 am to ghost2most
I wouldn’t discount Scoot. He definitely has the character and those gleague teams really follow him as a leader. He definitely has the talent as well. Part of the reason pels love him is his character and leadership qualities. I would say watch the hyped game with him v Wemby. The dude just stands out even with Wemby on the floor.
Posted on 6/13/23 at 11:51 am to NOSHAU
quote:
However, I do not recall him saying that BI was the leader of the team
Then you have not seen a single one of his press conferences since Jrue was traded.
Posted on 6/13/23 at 12:00 pm to Soggymoss
quote:Have seen most of them. Do not recall him saying BI was the #1 or that it was BI's team. He always seems to soft ball it. He does call BI a "leader" but do not recall him saying it is his team or he is #1.
Then you have not seen a single one of his press conferences since Jrue was traded.
This post was edited on 6/13/23 at 12:02 pm
Posted on 6/13/23 at 12:06 pm to NOSHAU
While the rest of the basketball world reflexively pointed to Zion Williamson’s gaudy stats and otherworldly highlight reel as the Pelicans’ lone foundation, those inside the organization kept pointing to Ingram as the unheralded hinge between also-ran and contender.
“We didn’t sign him to be anything other than a leader of our franchise, and he didn’t sign to be anything other than a leader,” Griffin said after inking Ingram to a five-year, $158 million deal in 2020. “We’re a family here, and it’s what we want to be. What I see him doing is leading this group and helping Zion through the growing pains he went through.”
- kushner article in 2022
He literally talks about him helping Zion through growing pains. Come on man. This as clear as it gets.
“We didn’t sign him to be anything other than a leader of our franchise, and he didn’t sign to be anything other than a leader,” Griffin said after inking Ingram to a five-year, $158 million deal in 2020. “We’re a family here, and it’s what we want to be. What I see him doing is leading this group and helping Zion through the growing pains he went through.”
- kushner article in 2022
He literally talks about him helping Zion through growing pains. Come on man. This as clear as it gets.
Posted on 6/13/23 at 12:20 pm to Pels_Yaz
quote:Steph Curry is the only player that size to be the best player on a title team in decades.
I wouldn’t discount Scoot. He definitely has the character and those gleague teams really follow him as a leader. He definitely has the talent as well.
Anything could happen, but it's a very, very long shot/lottery ticket to get and build around that guy as your #1.
Posted on 6/13/23 at 12:23 pm to shel311
Again I get the whole title thing but this franchise hasn’t even made a conference finals. How about we try to build a team that can constantly get into playoffs at least before finding the next steph curry. I think Scoot can do that.
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