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Started By
Message
re: Morant or Tatum
Posted on 4/14/19 at 3:24 pm to Crewz
Posted on 4/14/19 at 3:24 pm to Crewz
quote:
I'd rather not be in that position. I'm more than happy to flip him to a 3rd team. But my overall point is that if you really look at the Celtics assets individually and project them forward, they really aren't that good. The flexibility that a Knicks or Clippers package can offer is more appealing to me. Only way I like Celtics offer more is if a third team gets involved to take some of those other items and give me something I like better
T/F, Brown can net a top 5 lotto pick from a team like Phoenix or Atlanta
Because if he can, than you'd ask for Brown > Smart in a trade
2
Posted on 4/14/19 at 3:35 pm to DeionDeion
Morant at this point. We haven't had a top tier PG consistently stay healthy and as dynamic as Morant. There may be more guys that can be drafted or traded for at wing. Perfect situation.
Posted on 4/14/19 at 4:13 pm to htran90
Smart would pretty much have to be included simply for salary purposes
Posted on 4/14/19 at 4:17 pm to htran90
as above
smart or Hayward must be included
could be horford also but he would have to opt in
with Hayward money has to go back from the pels
can’t be just Tatum and brown and flotsam
smart or Hayward must be included
could be horford also but he would have to opt in
with Hayward money has to go back from the pels
can’t be just Tatum and brown and flotsam
Posted on 4/14/19 at 4:29 pm to cgrand
quote:
can’t be just Tatum and brown and flotsam
Salary aside, I'm purely talking about returning assets.
Financially they'll make it work out. That's the least of the issues
Posted on 4/14/19 at 5:07 pm to htran90
Horford would have to opt in, and he wont opt in to be traded..
Its unlikely they would include Hayward because then they would likely have to take Hill back
The trade will pretty much be Tatum, Smart and picks, then they will start discussing Brown, Morris etc
Its unlikely they would include Hayward because then they would likely have to take Hill back
The trade will pretty much be Tatum, Smart and picks, then they will start discussing Brown, Morris etc
Posted on 4/14/19 at 6:10 pm to Crewz
quote:
Some people will do that. Smart people won't. Smart people know about sample size, recency bias, etc etc.
Thats why smart people need a separate place, free from the "others"
Recency bias? You mean like people fawning over a guy from a college conference no one has ever heard of for having a triple-double in the first round of the tournament, rather than a 20yo rookie who almost led a badly shorthanded Celtics team to the Finals last year?
Zion, if they offer him. But Ja over Tatum is a bad decision, even if the rest of Boston's package wasn't drastically better, which it is.
Thing about Boston this year is that they are carrying too many players while they wait for a kill shot. Tatum, Hayward, Rozier, and Jaylen are all majorly underutilized, and would be getting more usage on worse teams with less depth.
This post was edited on 4/14/19 at 6:12 pm
Posted on 4/14/19 at 7:02 pm to Vegas Buffet
As a Celts fan, I think some of you guys have gotten a little lost in your own heads on this one. Pels were smart to pass on the Lakers offer at the deadline. The Lakers assets are beyond ordinary. Whatever thire offer was, it will still be there this summer, and likely eclipsed by better offers from Boston, NY, or whoever else.
However, that isn't set in stone by any stretch. There have been leaks aplenty coming from the Knicks on KD, but we haven't heard a lot of willingness for them to deal Zion for AD, nor from AD for resigning with them. Adding KD and Zion in NYC is a license for the Knicks to print money, especially given that another max player will probably join them.
Speaking of which, we also don't know what Kyrie is going to do yet. Entirely possible he is headed to the Knicks regardless of whether or not Boston can trade for AD. If Boston goes to Kyrie on draft night and tells them they have an AD trade in hand so long as he resigns, what happens to Boston's offer if he tells them no? The chances of resigning AD drop dramatically if that happens, and their offer would reflect that accordingly.
There are all sorts of "basketball reasons" on both counts as to why those things shouldn't happen, but let's be real and say that if it were about basketball, neither KD nor Kyrie would leave their current teams.
Back to the Knicks, you have all seen the lottery odds. Not only is there a 5 of 7 chance they don't land top 2, again, they might not even deal that pick even if they do.
It is entirely possible this scenario of the Knicks landing the #2 pick and a bidding war ensuing between them and Boston based on Morant vs Tatum, but I'd give that roughly a 10% chance of happening.
However, that isn't set in stone by any stretch. There have been leaks aplenty coming from the Knicks on KD, but we haven't heard a lot of willingness for them to deal Zion for AD, nor from AD for resigning with them. Adding KD and Zion in NYC is a license for the Knicks to print money, especially given that another max player will probably join them.
Speaking of which, we also don't know what Kyrie is going to do yet. Entirely possible he is headed to the Knicks regardless of whether or not Boston can trade for AD. If Boston goes to Kyrie on draft night and tells them they have an AD trade in hand so long as he resigns, what happens to Boston's offer if he tells them no? The chances of resigning AD drop dramatically if that happens, and their offer would reflect that accordingly.
There are all sorts of "basketball reasons" on both counts as to why those things shouldn't happen, but let's be real and say that if it were about basketball, neither KD nor Kyrie would leave their current teams.
Back to the Knicks, you have all seen the lottery odds. Not only is there a 5 of 7 chance they don't land top 2, again, they might not even deal that pick even if they do.
It is entirely possible this scenario of the Knicks landing the #2 pick and a bidding war ensuing between them and Boston based on Morant vs Tatum, but I'd give that roughly a 10% chance of happening.
Posted on 4/14/19 at 7:36 pm to Vegas Buffet
I completely agree
I think we know the basics of what BOS will offer for Davis
the Knicks getting #1 and trading it for Davis is a pipe dream.
they might if they get 2 or 3 but the BOS offer is better than that based on brown and Tatum alone.
we will find out after the lottery but the odds are that Davis is a Celtic in 2019
I think we know the basics of what BOS will offer for Davis
the Knicks getting #1 and trading it for Davis is a pipe dream.
they might if they get 2 or 3 but the BOS offer is better than that based on brown and Tatum alone.
we will find out after the lottery but the odds are that Davis is a Celtic in 2019
This post was edited on 4/14/19 at 7:38 pm
Posted on 4/14/19 at 7:47 pm to cgrand
People keep discounting the timeline. The trade will be agreed to in mid June. You think Kyrie or KD will KNOW where they are going then? And even if they do, you think they will tell anyone?
On July 2nd, in the years they left, the Thunder and Cavs thought KD and Lebron were coming back, respectively. Let alone June 16th.
The Knicks, Celtics, etc will have to negotiate and execute the trade BEFORE they have that info. And they will believe that having AD on their roster will give them a better shot at the other guys. Yes, having AD is 5 times more appealing to KD and Kyrie than having Zion. The Knicks would absolutely trade that pick for AD, because they will see it as trading Zion for AD and KD/Kyrie.
I don't know why people always talk about this timeline backwards. The trade negotiations will happen starting May 14th, at the draft combine. They will be finalized in mid June, well before Kyrie, KD, Kawhi, etc make any firm decisions
On July 2nd, in the years they left, the Thunder and Cavs thought KD and Lebron were coming back, respectively. Let alone June 16th.
The Knicks, Celtics, etc will have to negotiate and execute the trade BEFORE they have that info. And they will believe that having AD on their roster will give them a better shot at the other guys. Yes, having AD is 5 times more appealing to KD and Kyrie than having Zion. The Knicks would absolutely trade that pick for AD, because they will see it as trading Zion for AD and KD/Kyrie.
I don't know why people always talk about this timeline backwards. The trade negotiations will happen starting May 14th, at the draft combine. They will be finalized in mid June, well before Kyrie, KD, Kawhi, etc make any firm decisions
Posted on 4/14/19 at 9:07 pm to Crewz
Morant is getting too overhyped. Kris Dunn was once hyped. So was Markelle Fultz and Lonzo Ball. It's tough to predict these things. Tatum's far likelier to get into star territory, but no question he's regressed.
This post was edited on 4/14/19 at 9:13 pm
Posted on 4/14/19 at 9:51 pm to Crewz
quote:i seem to recall that you hinted that the Pels and Celtics had discussed the framework for a deal and that Pels fans would be happy with what was discussed. You indicated that AD was going to the Celtics unless the Knicks got the #1. I may be mis-remembering the details. However, given that and now that Griffin has taken over, do you think all of that is still in place or does he start the process over again?
People keep discounting the timeline. The trade will be agreed to in mid June. You think Kyrie or KD will KNOW where they are going then? And even if they do, you think they will tell anyone?
On July 2nd, in the years they left, the Thunder and Cavs thought KD and Lebron were coming back, respectively. Let alone June 16th.
The Knicks, Celtics, etc will have to negotiate and execute the trade BEFORE they have that info. And they will believe that having AD on their roster will give them a better shot at the other guys. Yes, having AD is 5 times more appealing to KD and Kyrie than having Zion. The Knicks would absolutely trade that pick for AD, because they will see it as trading Zion for AD and KD/Kyrie.
I don't know why people always talk about this timeline backwards. The trade negotiations will happen starting May 14th, at the draft combine. They will be finalized in mid June, well before Kyrie, KD, Kawhi, etc make any firm decisions
Posted on 4/14/19 at 9:57 pm to NOSHAU
Ferry has clued Griffin in on the discussions. Celtics offer is there. The X Factor here is how much Griffin likes Morant. Dell had RJ higher than Morant but below Tatum. I bet that after all his evaluations are done, Griffin has Morant higher than RJ and Tatum
Posted on 4/14/19 at 10:03 pm to Crewz
I think we all do. Maybe Garland higher than both too
Posted on 4/14/19 at 10:15 pm to Crewz
And I can say it now since the principal people are basically gone. The Celtics essentially said the deal would be Tatum, Smart, filler and at least 3 firsts, including the Grizzlies pick, depending on where they all fell. Dell said they would ask for all that plus Brown and Ainge didn't rule that out of the rhelm of possibilities. Celtics are going to do whatever it takes. And the deal will be finalized by June 20th at the latest, so I don't know why people keep talking about what Kyrie does. Because the Celts won't know by then
Posted on 4/14/19 at 10:42 pm to Pelefraan 1
quote:
Maybe Garland higher than both too
What? I mean I’m interested in the guy too but how the hell can you say garland is better than RJ and Tatum based off of 4.2 games against shite teams? You’re getting to invested into the hype train with this guy. You might be right but you can’t say you know that based off such little of a resume to analyze off of
Posted on 4/14/19 at 11:38 pm to Crewz
quote:
People keep discounting the timeline. The trade will be agreed to in mid June. You think Kyrie or KD will KNOW where they are going then? And even if they do, you think they will tell anyone?
On July 2nd, in the years they left, the Thunder and Cavs thought KD and Lebron were coming back, respectively. Let alone June 16th.
The Knicks, Celtics, etc will have to negotiate and execute the trade BEFORE they have that info. And they will believe that having AD on their roster will give them a better shot at the other guys. Yes, having AD is 5 times more appealing to KD and Kyrie than having Zion. The Knicks would absolutely trade that pick for AD, because they will see it as trading Zion for AD and KD/Kyrie.
I don't know why people always talk about this timeline backwards. The trade negotiations will happen starting May 14th, at the draft combine. They will be finalized in mid June, well before Kyrie, KD, Kawhi, etc make any firm decisions
Yes, the trade will be agreed to in principle prior to draft night, but what I am telling you is that (a) KD is already a Knick unless something drastic changes his mind, which I can inform is in no way dependent on the lottery and the Knicks trading for AD or not, (b) no one has any idea if the Knicks will actually trade Zion for AD in the less than favorable odds they actually land him, and (c) Boston's offer will reflect whether Kyrie and AD tell them yes, no, or maybe. They will definitely go hard, but you are kinda tripping if you think otherwise, IMO.
FWIW, Boston thinks they will keep Kyrie, and that they have the inside track on AD. The Knicks or Lakers could throw that off, but IMO you are putting too much emphasis on that given the lottery odds. Most likely scenario (by a lot) is them not even being in the game on this.
And so we wait.
Posted on 4/14/19 at 11:41 pm to Crewz
quote:
And I can say it now since the principal people are basically gone. The Celtics essentially said the deal would be Tatum, Smart, filler and at least 3 firsts, including the Grizzlies pick, depending on where they all fell. Dell said they would ask for all that plus Brown and Ainge didn't rule that out of the rhelm of possibilities. Celtics are going to do whatever it takes. And the deal will be finalized by June 20th at the latest, so I don't know why people keep talking about what Kyrie does. Because the Celts won't know by then
This is my understanding as well. Biggest importance of NYK landing Morant at #2 in all this is forcing Boston to include Jaylen or not. They don't have to if the pick is 3rd or beyond. He would likely still go out in another deal. Kyrie hates Jaylen and Terry.
This post was edited on 4/14/19 at 11:44 pm
Posted on 4/15/19 at 6:32 am to Crewz
I said it was a pipe dream because the odds are so incredibly high against them getting the #1 pick in the first place. The Celtics already own the assets they need
Posted on 4/15/19 at 8:34 am to cgrand
quote:
The Celtics essentially said the deal would be Tatum, Smart, filler and at least 3 firsts, including the Grizzlies pick, depending on where they all fell. Dell said they would ask for all that plus Brown and Ainge didn't rule that out of the rhelm of possibilities
Basically the former deal if the cards all go against us, and the latter if they all go our way.
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