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re: Our current starting center would probably be the worst starter among all West contenders
Posted on 8/1/24 at 3:17 pm to Balsamic_duck
Posted on 8/1/24 at 3:17 pm to Balsamic_duck
quote:People really do overexaggerate their hate for BI.
You absolutely can't close with BI.
Probably the least clutch player I've ever seen.
0
Posted on 8/1/24 at 3:18 pm to Balsamic_duck
quote:
So you think we can play 3 time MVP Nikola Jokic off the floor?
Do you think Jokic can gaurd Zion better than Zion can guard Jokic? It's not like anyone is stopping Jokic from getting 30/12/10 anyway.
Posted on 8/1/24 at 3:21 pm to whatiknowsofar
quote:
We will absolutely abuse bigs in the pnr
We better incorporate the pnr this year because this team barely runs it.
Posted on 8/1/24 at 3:23 pm to TeddyPadillac
quote:
Do you think Jokic can gaurd Zion better than Zion can guard Jokic?
They’ll stick Gordon on Zion. The real question is whoever is the weakest guy on offense in that lineup v Jokic. Can that guy take enough of an advantage to offset Jokic advantage on offense. Thats the real key.
Posted on 8/1/24 at 3:24 pm to Pels_Yaz
You can do more than just a pnr. There's plenty of switching/off ball screens/dribble handoffs that we do to create mismatches and space
Posted on 8/1/24 at 3:29 pm to TeddyPadillac
quote:
Do you think Jokic can gaurd Zion better than Zion can guard Jokic? It's not like anyone is stopping Jokic from getting 30/12/10 anyway.
What? Absolutely.
Jokic is one of the most efficient players of all time, can score from anywhere and has a 5 inch advantage on Zion
Posted on 8/1/24 at 3:41 pm to Balsamic_duck
quote:
So you think we can play 3 time MVP Nikola Jokic off the floor?
So you think there was a player we could have brought in to slow down 3 time MVP Nikola Jokic?
Posted on 8/1/24 at 3:46 pm to Balsamic_duck
quote:
Jokic is one of the most efficient players of all time, can score from anywhere and has a 5 inch advantage on Zion
and again, how is that any different than what he does to every other center in the league?
Do you know who the heaviest player in the NBA is?
Boban and Nurkic at 290.
You know who's next?
Jokic and Zion at 284.
There are 100 players in the NBA that weight 240 or above. The list of guys that come even remotely close to Zion's quickness is real short.
Lebron, Paolo, Ben Simmons, Siakam, OG.
Y'all can talk about length all you want, and i'm not saying it's not important b/c it obviously is, but Zion is one of the few people on this earth that is heavy enough and quick enough to attempt to keep Jokic away from the rim as best he can. So what if he scores 36, has 16 rebounds and 11 assists. If he took 26 shots to do it, that's a win. If the rest of the guys keep Murray and MPJ from scoring at will, then that's the formula to beating Denver. No one is stopping Jokic. He just averaged 29/13/9 against AD and Gobert in the playoffs. The best you can do is make it difficult on him, and Zion's weight/quickness can do that.
Posted on 8/1/24 at 3:47 pm to hugo_boss
quote:
So you think there was a player we could have brought in to slow down 3 time MVP Nikola Jokic?
I think the point is yes Jokic can get 30 pt triple double easily. The issue becomes when we have no legit center and all of sudden hes scoring 40 points or getting 20 assists. Hes getting above his normal average in those categories because of our lack of NBA quality centers. Thats where you lose ball games. If you hold Jokic to his averages you might have a shot at winning or at least be competitive.
Posted on 8/1/24 at 3:53 pm to TeddyPadillac
quote:
Y'all can talk about length all you want, and i'm not saying it's not important b/c it obviously is, but Zion is one of the few people on this earth that is heavy enough and quick enough to attempt to keep Jokic away from the rim as best he can.
Like we discussed before a lot of this depends on some massive defensive improvement from Zion at the 5 position. This is possible but I have not seen this at all in his career so far. Jokic gets what he wants on a guy like AD- who’s a tall very good established defender; I just can’t see Zion preventing Jokic from getting to the rim.
If you go into a game with Nuggets with our current roster- the best bet is just to outshoot them so Jokic doesn’t matter; I don’t think you can rely on Zion to make Jokic’s life tough.
Posted on 8/1/24 at 4:07 pm to Pels_Yaz
quote:
Like we discussed before a lot of this depends on some massive defensive improvement from Zion at the 5 position. This is possible but I have not seen this at all in his career so far.
I don't disagree with what you're saying.
What I'm saying is our path to a championship becomes much easier if he gets to that point.
Is 230lb Jonathon Isaac going to defend Jokic better than Zion b/c he's 4 inches taller?
The list of guys that have the size and quickness to defend Jokic is incredibly small, and even smaller if that guy also needs to be able to shoot 3's.
Posted on 8/1/24 at 4:11 pm to TeddyPadillac
When the main argument is "we won't be able to stop the best player in the league" I don't think you have a good argument.
Posted on 8/1/24 at 4:23 pm to whatiknowsofar
quote:
When the main argument is "we won't be able to stop the best player in the league" I don't think you have a good argument.
I think theres a difference though between stopping Jokic and Jokic going nuclear though in my opinion. Holding a guy to his MVP averages is different than him setting career highs on you.
Posted on 8/1/24 at 4:27 pm to TeddyPadillac
quote:
Is 230lb Jonathon Isaac going to defend Jokic better than Zion b/c he's 4 inches taller?
I will disagree here a bit. 4 inches and a bigger wingspan matter. Plus Isaac is a substantially better defender and has no pressure to really produce offensively.
I wanted your take on this as well but we haven’t talked about if Zion plays the 5- how does that affect him in regards to getting into foul trouble and then hes on the bench with his elite scoring? Remember a big part of Draymond at the 5 was he really didn’t have to do anything offensively. Zion is our basic hub on offense.
Posted on 8/1/24 at 4:43 pm to Pels_Yaz
quote:
think theres a difference though between stopping Jokic and Jokic going nuclear though in my opinion. Holding a guy to his MVP averages is different than him setting career highs on you.
He went nuclear on us when we had nba caliber centers. You don't stop jokic. You stop everyone around him. It's what the Wolves did.
Posted on 8/1/24 at 4:45 pm to Pels_Yaz
quote:
I think theres a difference though between stopping Jokic and Jokic going nuclear though in my opinion. Holding a guy to his MVP averages is different than him setting career highs on you.
I agree.
Jokic getting 30/15/12 on 15 shots is vastly different than him getting it on 25 shots, but I say that knowing Jokic is a smart player and rarely is he going to have games where he has a low shooting %.
It's so much more important to limit Murray and MPJ.
You can beat the Nuggets when Jokic has a 40/15/12 line. Won't be easy, but if you hold Murray/MPJ to under 18 each, you might have a chance.
The Nuggets were 26-4 this year when either of Murray or MPJ scored 24+ points.
Posted on 8/1/24 at 4:46 pm to whatiknowsofar
quote:
You stop everyone around him. It's what the Wolves did.
correct. Murray, MPJ and KCP all shot under 35% from 3 against the Wolves.
Posted on 8/1/24 at 4:49 pm to Pels_Yaz
quote:
I will disagree here a bit. 4 inches and a bigger wingspan matter. Plus Isaac is a substantially better defender and has no pressure to really produce offensively.
i'm not saying they don't matter. What i'm saying is against 284lb Jokic, it doesn't matter that much. He'll just back you all the way down, go right up on you and even if you block it, he'll just get it back and you will have already fallen out of the way while he puts back up the easy put back.
quote:
I wanted your take on this as well but we haven’t talked about if Zion plays the 5- how does that affect him in regards to getting into foul trouble and then hes on the bench with his elite scoring? Remember a big part of Draymond at the 5 was he really didn’t have to do anything offensively. Zion is our basic hub on offense.
Zion needs to get in elite shape. simple as that. I don't see Lebron or Giannis getting tired out there. And no they aren't guarding Jokic, but it's not like they aren't giving effort defensively. Even Jokic is in awesome shape for being so big. When he got in shape is when they started being a true contender. When Embiid realizes this then maybe his team can be a true contender too.
Posted on 8/1/24 at 4:50 pm to whatiknowsofar
quote:
He went nuclear on us when we had nba caliber centers. You don't stop jokic. You stop everyone around him. It's what the Wolves did.
Come on man. Wolves had multiple talented bigs to throw at Jokic like Gobert, Reid, and Towns. Did they STOP Jokic? No. Did he go crazy nuclear on them every game? No.
In regards to Jokic vs. pels last year, he had one game against us in 3 games where he scored 35 the other two were his typical averages. I wouldn’t say thats nuclear.
This post was edited on 8/1/24 at 4:59 pm
Posted on 8/1/24 at 5:00 pm to Pels_Yaz
quote:
Did they STOP Jokic? No. Did he go crazy nuclear on them every game? No.
He shot over 50% for the series and had games of
34 19rebs 7ast
40 7 rebs 13 ast
35 7 and 7
Those are pretty nuclear stat lines.
He had a couple of bad games for him too, sure but he had only one game with 10 assists or more. The guys around him sucked because the wolves took everyone away around him.
quote:
he had one game against us in 3 games where he scored 35 the other two were his typical averages. I wouldn’t say thats nuclear.
What box score are you even looking at that you think a guy that put up 14 and 18 assists on us isn't nuclear?
This post was edited on 8/1/24 at 5:03 pm
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