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re: Pelicans Hot Take
Posted on 6/2/16 at 8:39 am to cgrand
Posted on 6/2/16 at 8:39 am to cgrand
quote:
something good needs to happen and fast
It's going to be a long summer.
Pretty much all of our draft options already have their fair share of detractors. I can't imagine a trade that brings back an exciting player without sending out a future 1st, which would automatically create a melt down. And if we get excited about a player we land in FA, it probably means we overpaid for them.
0
Posted on 6/2/16 at 8:52 am to Dave England
This might've been said already, but in this ridiculous hypothetical trade scenario, why are you trading him for the #2 pick instead of #1?
You'd rather send him to a Western conf team for #2 than an Eastern conf team for #1?
Again for emphasis, I think the whole thing is ridiculous, but this part of it is really funny.
You'd rather send him to a Western conf team for #2 than an Eastern conf team for #1?
Again for emphasis, I think the whole thing is ridiculous, but this part of it is really funny.
Posted on 6/2/16 at 9:00 am to burdman
quote:
why are you trading him for the #2 pick instead of #1?
First, I think you could get more out of the Lakers. you basically strip them down to cap space and they have to believe they can attract the FAs to make something happen. I'm not sure Philly makes that bet on itself. The Ingram/Russell/Randle and taking Asik would be the floor of what I think you should be able to get from LA. You might not get much more, but I don't see why they wouldn't do that plus some future assets.
What do you get out of Philly? Simmons/Noel/Saric/young filler and future picks? Unless Simmons is much better than Ingram, and the split opinion suggests that's not the case, I think you come out better in an LA deal other than AD being in the West. A Lakers trade puts you on par with where the promising TWolves are. I'm almost tempted to blow it up for that Lakers trade, thinking about trading with Philly and I'd rather take my chances that we can somehow salvage the situation with AD.
Posted on 6/2/16 at 9:03 am to TigerinATL
You don't get a chance at a franchise player often. To trade him for a handful of good/unknown players and picks is about as stupid a move as we could make. If we had a competent GM, we would be building around AD and not just throwing band aids on the situation every year. Why would anyone think he could do anything with a few good/unknown players if he could not capitalize on a top young franchise player?
This post was edited on 6/2/16 at 9:05 am
Posted on 6/2/16 at 9:05 am to PortCityTiger24
Listen, friend. I disagreed with a post of yours. I also thought your response completely missed the point of my post. Doesn't mean I think you're stupid. If you want to talk hoops, let's do it.
You said
And my reply was that it's not all about physical gifts in the post. LeBron and the Heat became "next level" because he could score AND eviscerate teams with his passing. It wasn't just "LeBron is a post scorer, now he's awesome." It's he can beat you in the post, so you have to double, but then he will murder you with his passing out of the double.
Simpletons may think post play is irrelevant, but if you can't pass out of the post, it is very hard to have post ups be a large part of a successful offense in the NBA in 2016.
You also said
The Rockets were running offense through Hakeem on the block. So, are you just saying that you want Davis to be as good as Hakeem on the block, but the Pels shouldn't run their offense through a guy who is as good as Hakeem in the post?
You also claimed that Gentry is using Davis like Shawn Marion and that he is standing around the perimeter more than he is on the block, which is demonstrably false.
I never disputed that at all. I agree completely and think that knock on Davis (or LeBron or Durant or whomever) is just silly
Only you. It's passing from the post in the context of having a post game go "next level" like LeBron.
I don't necessarily think so. He's taller and longer, sure, maybe a better touch in the paint. He's also weaker and doesn't have the footwork (to say nothing of the passing/vision or bag of tricks) LeBron does. Those things can be improved upon though.
Much of this season was Davis stretching his offense to it's limits- ISOs, post ups, 3s, creating, etc because of what Gentry was asking, but also because there were very few facilitators for him. BSS had a good post about this being a 1 step back (if we can call 24/10 a step back) for two steps forward. I think that is correct and I think Davis will answer the critics of this past season.
You said
quote:
ADs problem is not a lack of killer instinct. He needs to develop a post game. I know the simpletons think that post play is irrelevant but LeBron became next level when he finally started playing back to the basket
And my reply was that it's not all about physical gifts in the post. LeBron and the Heat became "next level" because he could score AND eviscerate teams with his passing. It wasn't just "LeBron is a post scorer, now he's awesome." It's he can beat you in the post, so you have to double, but then he will murder you with his passing out of the double.
Simpletons may think post play is irrelevant, but if you can't pass out of the post, it is very hard to have post ups be a large part of a successful offense in the NBA in 2016.
You also said
quote:
let him torch bigs on the block like Hakeem
quote:
When did I say anything about running the offense through the post?
The Rockets were running offense through Hakeem on the block. So, are you just saying that you want Davis to be as good as Hakeem on the block, but the Pels shouldn't run their offense through a guy who is as good as Hakeem in the post?
You also claimed that Gentry is using Davis like Shawn Marion and that he is standing around the perimeter more than he is on the block, which is demonstrably false.
quote:
I defended him and said he doesn't lack a killer instinct
I never disputed that at all. I agree completely and think that knock on Davis (or LeBron or Durant or whomever) is just silly
quote:
Who the hell brings up passing in the context of having a killer instinct?
Only you. It's passing from the post in the context of having a post game go "next level" like LeBron.
quote:
Davis definitely has physical advantages over Lebron in the post.
I don't necessarily think so. He's taller and longer, sure, maybe a better touch in the paint. He's also weaker and doesn't have the footwork (to say nothing of the passing/vision or bag of tricks) LeBron does. Those things can be improved upon though.
Much of this season was Davis stretching his offense to it's limits- ISOs, post ups, 3s, creating, etc because of what Gentry was asking, but also because there were very few facilitators for him. BSS had a good post about this being a 1 step back (if we can call 24/10 a step back) for two steps forward. I think that is correct and I think Davis will answer the critics of this past season.
Posted on 6/2/16 at 9:09 am to cgrand
quote:
my god the state of this team and the discussion around it is depressing...
something good needs to happen and fast
Just keep those expectations low for this summer-
Don't trade the pick or any future picks
Don't re-sign Gordon or Anderson unless at a discount and for 2 years
Check those boxes and I'll consider it a good summer
Posted on 6/2/16 at 9:23 am to TigerinATL
It's an interesting call re: Simmons/Ingram. Simmons has the higher ceiling, but Ingram has the higher floor and seems to fit in just about any roster style.
Lakers v Sixers package is interesting. Russell + 2 is probably better than #1 + a recent Philly lottery player. But the Sixers can toss in LA's first next year, Kings 1st swap rights for next year, and maybe a 2nd recent lotto pick.
Best case, you get Ingram, Saric, Noel, LA's 1st next year and swap rights to the Kings pick, plus your own pick. I'll toss in Holiday (just saying) to sweeten that for Philly and goose my lottery odds.
Lakers v Sixers package is interesting. Russell + 2 is probably better than #1 + a recent Philly lottery player. But the Sixers can toss in LA's first next year, Kings 1st swap rights for next year, and maybe a 2nd recent lotto pick.
Best case, you get Ingram, Saric, Noel, LA's 1st next year and swap rights to the Kings pick, plus your own pick. I'll toss in Holiday (just saying) to sweeten that for Philly and goose my lottery odds.
Posted on 6/2/16 at 9:24 am to NOSHAU
quote:
Why would anyone think he could do anything with a few good/unknown players if he could not capitalize on a top young franchise player?
Well this FO wouldn't even think about going this route because it makes you a sure fire non playoff team immediately. My lack of faith in this FO to keep AD is exactly why you think about the possibility of abandoning AD. Russell/Hield/Ingram/Randle/2017 pick seems like a pretty good core to build around and is likely much better than what we'd get if AD demands a trade in 2019-20.
This post was edited on 6/2/16 at 9:26 am
Posted on 6/2/16 at 10:08 am to corndeaux
quote:
It's an interesting call re: Simmons/Ingram. Simmons has the higher ceiling, but Ingram has the higher floor and seems to fit in just about any roster style.
Ingram has a higher floor? No way
Posted on 6/2/16 at 10:10 am to Dave England
quote:
Anthony Davis doesnot have the killer instinct that we need
Posted on 6/2/16 at 11:40 am to Dave England
quote:
Anthony Davis doesnot have the killer instinct that we need, he lacks passion. We aren't going to compete for a championship in the next 3 years so he will want a trade. Trade him before he makes us trade him. Trade Davis to the Lakers for the second pick and a couple future first round picks, then select Ingram at #2 and Buddy Heild at #6. Use the cap space Davis frees up and sign Whiteside to a hefty deal. I love AD don't get wrong, but this franchise isn't moving in the right direction.
I do not trust anyone I have seen associated with the Pelicans organization to handle building a team around the best young rising star in the NBA much less trading said young rising star and making the team better.
It's beginning to look like a long shot to have success in the NOLA/NBA experiment.
Posted on 6/2/16 at 11:58 am to Snipe
Regarding Hakeem v. Davis as a post game argument, it's apples and guacamole. Hakeem played in a MUCH different NBA. The lack of zone made low post offense much easier, as guys couldn't just sag constantly to him to rip from up top when he took passes.
Posted on 6/2/16 at 1:02 pm to Jester
I'm not going to say AD lacks a killer instinct, but if you've watched a lot of pelicans games the last 3 years, you would know that many games AD will literally touch the ball once in the last 4 minutes somehow.
You can blame Reke and the rest of the team for not getting it to him, or him for the lack of calling for the ball.
We have had 2 coaches and he disappears regularly down the stretch of games.
It's gotten better this year, but he still goes stretches in the 4th quarter without doing much of anything, which just should never happen.
The stats show he is very efficient and effective scorer in the clutch but was well behind in number of touches in that clutch time compared to the the usually hitters in that category, lebron, Durant, Cp3, melo, Westbrook, Harden, Wade.
I can recall many times saying the last 3 years, it's not that we lost, it's that we lost with EG and Reke missing the shots/turning it over down the stretch instead of AD.
You can blame Reke and the rest of the team for not getting it to him, or him for the lack of calling for the ball.
We have had 2 coaches and he disappears regularly down the stretch of games.
It's gotten better this year, but he still goes stretches in the 4th quarter without doing much of anything, which just should never happen.
The stats show he is very efficient and effective scorer in the clutch but was well behind in number of touches in that clutch time compared to the the usually hitters in that category, lebron, Durant, Cp3, melo, Westbrook, Harden, Wade.
I can recall many times saying the last 3 years, it's not that we lost, it's that we lost with EG and Reke missing the shots/turning it over down the stretch instead of AD.
Posted on 6/2/16 at 1:23 pm to TeddyPadillac
Christ, you people lack perspective.
Anthony Davis just completed his age 22 season and has posted 24/10/2 the past two seasons.
What does "killer instinct" even frickin mean
If anything the guy has shouldered the load for this shite organization and has been asked to do too much.
Are you really knocking him for bring efficient and effective in the clutch?
All those empty touches in the clutch has really helped guys like Westbrook and Durant clank shots down the stretch and blow a 3-1 vs GS
Anthony Davis just completed his age 22 season and has posted 24/10/2 the past two seasons.
What does "killer instinct" even frickin mean
If anything the guy has shouldered the load for this shite organization and has been asked to do too much.
quote:
The stats show he is very efficient and effective scorer in the clutch but was well behind in number of touches in that clutch time compared to the the usually hitters in that category, lebron, Durant, Cp3, melo, Westbrook, Harden, Wade.
Are you really knocking him for bring efficient and effective in the clutch?
All those empty touches in the clutch has really helped guys like Westbrook and Durant clank shots down the stretch and blow a 3-1 vs GS
Posted on 6/2/16 at 1:32 pm to GynoSandberg
Why isn't anyone talking about the fact that this guy said "a couple first rounders" for Anthony Davis ? Are you out of your mind you could fleece a team for this guy.
That being said don't trade him.
That being said don't trade him.
Posted on 6/2/16 at 1:33 pm to GynoSandberg
Get your panties out of the wad they are in.
All i said was he does not touch the ball enough in the clutch compared to the other stars of the league, and I want him to.
I don't know why he doesn't. I blame AD, the coach, and guys like Reke, EG, and a little of jrue although I don't care if jrue is taking shots down the stretch.
I'm not asking for AD to go one on one every possession down the stretch, but the offense has to go throw him at minimum every possession.
If you've never noticed this then i would assume you dont watch a lot of pelicans games or you don't watch with any care or knowledge of basketball.
All i said was he does not touch the ball enough in the clutch compared to the other stars of the league, and I want him to.
I don't know why he doesn't. I blame AD, the coach, and guys like Reke, EG, and a little of jrue although I don't care if jrue is taking shots down the stretch.
I'm not asking for AD to go one on one every possession down the stretch, but the offense has to go throw him at minimum every possession.
If you've never noticed this then i would assume you dont watch a lot of pelicans games or you don't watch with any care or knowledge of basketball.
Posted on 6/2/16 at 1:34 pm to GynoSandberg
quote:
What does "killer instinct" even frickin mean
It means "Why didn't he win the game all by himself?" It's really silly and completely ignores what he's good at. AD is still "just" a finisher and not a creator. That doesn't mean he's not an elite player or that he doesn't want to win as badly as anyone else.
Posted on 6/2/16 at 1:36 pm to TeddyPadillac
quote:
All i said was he does not touch the ball enough in the clutch compared to the other stars of the league, and I want him to.
But it's not as simple as him demanding the ball. He still doesn't know what to do with it on his own. Gentry got the job by selling the FO that he could make better use of AD. Then he proceeded to make sure that AD and the player that set him up for efficient scoring better than anyone else played as few minutes together as possible. This team
Posted on 6/2/16 at 1:43 pm to TigerinATL
quote:
He still doesn't know what to do with it on his own.
I agree. I dont want to just give it to him like he's Dirk and expect him to score.
A jrue/AD pick and roll/pop should be the play every time down the stretch, with 3 point shooters waiting to hit an open 3 if the lane gets clogged.
This worked well two years ago with reke/AD and EG/ryno/qpon spotting up and knocking down threes at a 40% rate.
But you can't have jrue and reke never give him the ball in that pick and roll down the stretch, which was more the norm.
Posted on 6/2/16 at 1:54 pm to TigerinATL
quote:
It means "Why didn't he win the game all by himself?" It's really silly and completely ignores what he's good at. AD is still "just" a finisher and not a creator. That doesn't mean he's not an elite player or that he doesn't want to win as badly as anyone else
Perfect
He's tried to take over 4th quarters before and failed miserably, too. Like, embarrassingly bad
Yea we want a guy w melo and hardens killer instinct
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