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Posted on 1/30/24 at 11:30 am to BigPerm30
quote:If so, we're failing at that and need to stop immediately.
I’m not taking up for Big Z but is his job to break down the court for a fast break when the ball is put up?
Zion ranks around 90th or so in the league in transition points per game, 3rd on the team behind CJ and Herb.
Posted on 1/30/24 at 11:48 am to Galactic Inquisitor
quote:
I also think it's kind of silly to expect your center to let other people rebound the ball.
I'm saying that JV could easily "allow" one of our other (more mobile) players to get the uncontested rebounds. And if you don't think JV can recognize an "uncontested" rebound...well, we'll just have to agree to disagree.
This ain't rocket surgery...watch how many uncontested rebounds there are in the next game. Then, see who most actively goes after those "plums". By the way, I don't blame JV in the least for grabbing those plums...he's at a point in his career where just about everybody is questioning his overall worth on the court. Adding 2-4 uncontested rebounds per game is probably VERY important to his ego...at this point.
Posted on 1/30/24 at 11:59 am to Dinky Mulberry
quote:
I'm saying that JV could easily "allow" one of our other (more mobile) players to get the uncontested rebounds. And if you don't think JV can recognize an "uncontested" rebound...well, we'll just have to agree to disagree.
How far gone is too far gone if we are rationalizing Zion's lack of rebounding by saying a player on the court should let him grab rebounds?
Posted on 1/30/24 at 12:05 pm to Broski
quote:I see what he's saying and there's merit to it, but I also think it's irrelevant to Zion's rebounding issues.
How far gone is too far gone if we are rationalizing Zion's lack of rebounding by saying a player on the court should let him grab rebounds?
And if we did that and Zion's rebounds went up, it would still be masking all the times he doesn't try for rebounds.
Posted on 1/30/24 at 12:06 pm to BigPerm30
Lazy take. JV is a rebounding machine - he and Zion can’t both grab the same ball.
Posted on 1/30/24 at 12:09 pm to M3From225
quote:
JV is a rebounding machine - he and Zion can’t both grab the same ball.
We had 40 rebounds last night. JV doesn’t grab 40 rebounds. What are you talking about lol?
Posted on 1/30/24 at 12:10 pm to shel311
quote:
And if we did that and Zion's rebounds went up, it would still be masking all the times he doesn't try for rebounds.
That's my point. The bending over backwards to cover up Zion's lack of progression is so old here. Like if we suddenly let Zion grab uncontested boards to get his rebound numbers up, that doesn't suddenly mean he isn't lazy anymore.
It's like so many people are afraid to say Zion is letting the team down because that also comes with the realization that we've wasted another top overall pick.
This post was edited on 1/30/24 at 12:11 pm
Posted on 1/30/24 at 12:11 pm to Dinky Mulberry
quote:
And if you don't think JV can recognize an "uncontested" rebound...well, we'll just have to agree to disagree.
Let's work through it. How does a center, facing the basket, know if a rebound is contested or not? He is paid to treat every rebound as contested and go get it.
Do you expect him to see the shot go up, survey the court to spot all 5 opponents, confirm none of them are attempting to rebound, all before looking up at the rim to start gauging where the ball is going to bounce?
Seriously, people complained that Al-Farouq Aminu took too many rebounds from AD. "He needs to let the bigs rebound the ball!" I took the same stance then. AD should be taking those rebounds from Aminu if he's going to be elite.
The idea that a guy boxing out on the low block can determine who may or may not be crashing from the perimeter before deciding to rebound the ball is silly.
This post was edited on 1/30/24 at 12:18 pm
Posted on 1/30/24 at 12:12 pm to Broski
quote:
Like if we suddenly let Zion grab uncontested boards to get his rebound numbers up, that doesn't suddenly mean he isn't lazy anymore.
Yeah, that's not what I mean though. He needs to get boards so he can get out and run the offense, because we don't have the pgs to get him the ball when he gets an early seal in the post.
Posted on 1/30/24 at 12:13 pm to whatiknowsofar
quote:
He needs to get boards so he can get out and run the offense,
Then he should go for them.
Posted on 1/30/24 at 12:14 pm to Broski
quote:
How far gone is too far gone if we are rationalizing Zion's lack of rebounding by saying a player on the court should let him grab rebounds?
Sorry...my bad. My entire post had NOTHING to do with Zion's lack of rebounding and ability to lead a fast break IF he did grab a rebound. I consider that a lost cause...because IF Zion managed to haul his fat azz full-speed down the court after grabbing a rebound...he'll probably have to immediately come out of the game and take 5 minutes or so to recover.
My post was just about letting our more mobile players get uncontested rebounds...and maybe lead a fastbreak...whenever possible.
Posted on 1/30/24 at 12:17 pm to M3From225
quote:
Lazy take. JV is a rebounding machine - he and Zion can’t both grab the same ball.
We collect 52.3 rebounds per game and give up 50.6. Jonas collects 9.6 rebounds or 9.3% of available rebounds. That leaves 93.3 rebounds for everyone else.
Bottom line, JV is doing his job.
Posted on 1/30/24 at 12:18 pm to Dinky Mulberry
quote:
because IF Zion managed to haul his fat azz full-speed down the court after grabbing a rebound...he'll probably have to immediately come out of the game and take 5 minutes or so to recover.
Beyond everything else, coaching, BI, Dyson, etc., this is the biggest thing holding the team back in my eyes.
Here we have this dude who, with the way he jumped out the gym in college, promised us a franchise cornerstone
that is a freak-of-an-athlete, yet here we are in year 5, complaining about how lazy Zion plays, and yet even with that perceived laziness, he is worn ragged by the 4th quarter despite having his minutes limited to ~32 per game because he doesn't have the stamina to play for long stretches.
It fricks up our rotations, it fricks up our ideal point Zion playstyle, it's fricking a lot of things up.
Posted on 1/30/24 at 12:19 pm to whatiknowsofar
quote:
Yeah, that's not what I mean though. He needs to get boards so he can get out and run the offense, because we don't have the pgs to get him the ball when he gets an early seal in the post.
He needs to start trying to rebound before I'm ready to shift any blame here onto Jonas.
Posted on 1/30/24 at 12:22 pm to Galactic Inquisitor
quote:
needs to start trying to rebound before I'm ready to shift any blame here onto Jonas.
Try? He does, is he good at it? No, and that's awful. But there's many instances of him and val/Nance going for boards and Zion not getting it, causing a precious 1-3 second delay for him to get the ball and run the offense.
The whole hey zion sprint down and get an early seal shite has to go. It was fine with lonzo but we don't have anyone on this team with that passing ability, so now you're wasting a Zion sprint and you didn't get him the fricking rock
Posted on 1/30/24 at 12:31 pm to Broski
quote:
Then he should go for them.
Beautiful, just beautifully done.
Posted on 1/30/24 at 12:35 pm to whatiknowsofar
quote:
Try? He does, is he good at it? No, and that's awful. But there's many instances of him and val/Nance going for boards and Zion not getting it, causing a precious 1-3 second delay for him to get the ball and run the offense.
Are we really doing this? Breaking down frame by frame why Zion doesn’t get rebounds? I love Zions talent but his conditioning and rebounding are major issues. He just needs to make an effort to rebound- its not rocket science.
Posted on 1/30/24 at 12:36 pm to whatiknowsofar
quote:Disagree
Try? He does
Zion guards bigs. He's huge and a freak athlete that can jump out of the gym.
There is no world where that guy above tries to get rebounds and has a total of 18 rebounds over his last 6 games, which Zion does.
You almost have to try to not average more than 3 boards a game over a 6 game span lol.
For reference, in addition to Val, Naji/Trey/BI/Dyson all have a higher defensive rebound rate than Zion.
Another concerning trend, as we discuss mainly defensive rebounding, is Zion doesn't even get offensive boards any more. His ORB% was over 10% his rookie year. It's down to 6.3% this season.
Posted on 1/30/24 at 12:38 pm to shel311
I just watched a Zion duke highlight video and now want to just end it all.
Don't even care about the dunks in here, but the way he runs the floor and the way he hunts the glass for blocks is just night and day from the sloth that he is now. I get it, it's college vs pro, but that shouldn't affect your effort.
Not even going to mention the weigh disparity between now and then.
LINK
Don't even care about the dunks in here, but the way he runs the floor and the way he hunts the glass for blocks is just night and day from the sloth that he is now. I get it, it's college vs pro, but that shouldn't affect your effort.
Not even going to mention the weigh disparity between now and then.
LINK
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