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Started By
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re: 164 years ago today: "No terms but unconditional and immediate surrender can be accepted."
Posted on 2/16/26 at 12:52 pm to RollTide1987
Posted on 2/16/26 at 12:52 pm to RollTide1987
If Jefferson Davis had picked his commanders based on merit instead of commanders who kissed his arse then Fort Donelson is a battle that the south could have won.
2
Posted on 2/16/26 at 12:53 pm to Cuz413
quote:
I'm talking about forced conscription and the ability of rich Yankees buying their way out or buying their sons way out.
It's called "substitution" and it happened on both sides. You think those rich plantation owners were picking up rifles and reporting to the front lines? No.
quote:
I'm talking about paying immigrants right off the boat with no job, not speaking English, money, and 3 hots and a cot to go shoot Johnny Reb.
That's exactly how Wheat formed his battalion in New Orleans:
"To attract even more bellicose souls to his [Roberdeau Wheat] nascent battalion, men who "were actuated more by a spirit of adventure and love of plunder than by love of country," or who filibuster General Henningsen once proclaimed "thought little of charging a battery, pistol in hand," Wheat christened his command "the Tiger Battalion." He then extolled his volunteers, led by Captain White's large company of Tiger Rifles...to continue to comb the docks, thoroughfares, alleyways, hotels, poor houses, and jails of the New Orleans waterfront for more recruits."
Men were 'shanghied' off the docks, including Germans, Poles, Irish, etc... such that many of the troops couldn't even understand the orders given in English or French.
The men fighting for the South weren't all saints. "Johnny Reb",
quote:
Go learn some history
Indeed.
Posted on 2/16/26 at 12:55 pm to WeeWee
quote:
Jefferson Davis had picked his commanders based on merit instead of commanders who kissed his arse then Fort Donelson is a battle that the south could have won.
Same could be said about the Uníon War Cabinet.
They did everything they could to sabotage Grant's career.
Lincoln finally had enough of the internal politics and took the reigns, promoting Grant to Supreme Leader
This post was edited on 2/16/26 at 12:56 pm
Posted on 2/16/26 at 12:56 pm to wadewilson
quote:
They were traitors to their country with even more ignoble motives for fighting
united States
Not
United States
Posted on 2/16/26 at 12:56 pm to theunknownknight
quote:
And when did the war start again?
When South Carolina seceded on Christmas Eve, 1860.
Why did they secede that December?
Posted on 2/16/26 at 12:57 pm to Salviati
quote:
unconstitutional (see Texas v. White, 74 U.S. 700 (1868))
As if 5 of the 8 judges appointed by Lincoln were going to say, yeah that war and 600,000 dead Americans was unnecessary.
There's a reason Jefferson Davis never went on trial even though he begged for it.
Where in the Constitution does in explicably state secession is not allowed? There is a reason the Anti Federalists wanted the reservation of powers to be the first amendment.
Posted on 2/16/26 at 12:58 pm to WeeWee
quote:
If Jefferson Davis had picked his commanders based on merit instead of commanders who kissed his arse then Fort Donelson is a battle that the south could have won.
This was true for both sides. So many incompetent political generals also served for the Union: Franz Sigel, Benjamin Butler, Daniel Sickles, Nathaniel Banks, John Logan, and John McClernand are just but a few examples of congressmen and senators who had their rank and position because Lincoln needed them for votes.
Posted on 2/16/26 at 1:15 pm to Cuz413
quote:TWO of the FIVE majority opinion Justices were NOT appointed by Lincoln. Justice Samuel Nelson was appointed by John Tyler, and Justice Nathan Clifford was appointed by James Buchanan. But please, continue to blame the refs. It's a Lost Cause shibboleth.
As if 5 of the 8 judges appointed by Lincoln were going to say, yeah that war and 600,000 dead Americans was unnecessary.
quote:The Constitution is filled with implied and dormant powers.
Where in the Constitution does in explicably state secession is not allowed?
Constitutional construction, like statutory or contract construction, does not require every term to be explicit.
This post was edited on 2/16/26 at 1:19 pm
Posted on 2/16/26 at 1:18 pm to Cuz413
quote:
Where in the Constitution does in explicably state secession is not allowed?
It doesn't have to say it because Precedent was set by Washington and his actions were upheld by the Court.
See: The Whiskey Rebellion
This post was edited on 2/16/26 at 1:22 pm
Posted on 2/16/26 at 1:23 pm to magildachunks
quote:
Jefferson Davis had picked his commanders based on merit instead of commanders who kissed his arse then Fort Donelson is a battle that the south could have won.
Same could be said about the Uníon War Cabinet.
They did everything they could to sabotage Grant's career.
Lincoln finally had enough of the internal politics and took the reigns, promoting Grant to Supreme Leader
Yes that is very true. However, Davis was more guilty of it than the Yankees. Plus that is talking about the entire war. I am just talking about the Battle for Fort Donelson. Jefferson Davis appointed Bishop Polk to be in charge of the armies defending the Mississippi River because he was Davis's roommate at West Point. Polk who had been a priest since graduating West Point decided to violate Kentucky's neutrality to secure Columbus. That might have been a good move if he had also moved to secure Paducah too. However, he did not and left a big hole in the south's defenses which caused Columbus to be abandoned once the Yankees began moving up the Tennessee River. Davis doubled down on his bad decision making by appointing Albert Sidney Johnson to be in charge of the western armies because Davis thought he was the shite at West Point. Johnson did not dare to complain about Davis's strategy to defend every inch of southern territory and therefore spread his army out so thin that it could not come together to counter a Union movement in time to actually do any good. Then Davis went so far as to appoint John Floyd to be Johnson's number 2 man which put him in charge of Fort Donelson. Floyd had already proved he was incompetent at the Battle of Carnifax Ferry. After that disaster Floyd should have been sent home but no Davis put him in charge of one of the most important points for the defense of the Confederacy. Lee and Beuregard were considered to be the best engineers in the US Army prior to the Civil War and Davis had both at his disposal in 1861 after Bull Run but he f**ked it up. Instead of sending one or both of them to the west where newly built fortifications would be essential to the southern defense he sent Lee to secure West Virginia which was an important task but could have been done by someone else and had Beuregard sit in northern Virginia and do nothing.
This post was edited on 2/16/26 at 1:33 pm
Posted on 2/16/26 at 1:26 pm to Harry Boutte
quote:
Why did they secede that December?
Again, for the smooth brains
Secession was not illegal. Secession didn’t start the war. The true northern invasion started the war. You can cry and claim it was ft sumpter, but the south let those soldiers go back home, no one was harmed. All the south did was make them leave the fort
If anything, the war was fought because Lincoln was butthurt he had to abandon federal property so he invaded. It’s almost like it was a “states” rights issue against a growing bloated federal bureaucracy
This post was edited on 2/16/26 at 1:27 pm
Posted on 2/16/26 at 1:32 pm to theunknownknight
quote:
You can cry and claim it was ft sumpter, but the south let those soldiers go back home, no one was harmed. All the south did was make them leave the fort
If anything, the war was fought because Lincoln was butthurt he had to abandon federal property so he invaded. It’s almost like it was a “states” rights issue against a growing bloated federal bureaucracy
The South attacked no less than 15 Union forts, armories, and Mints before the North "invasion".
The South were the aggressors, not the North. The North merely responded after months of violence by the South.
Posted on 2/16/26 at 1:35 pm to RollTide1987
Damn shame
Posted on 2/16/26 at 1:39 pm to theunknownknight
quote:Secession was unconstitutional.
Secession was not illegal.
quote:Why do people think they can take things that do not belong to them and think there will be no consequences? But you're right. Confederate forces firing on Fort Sumter, a United States fort, started the war.
Secession didn’t start the war.
quote:Confederate forces fired on a federal fort. Why do people think they can fire cannons for 34 hours at a federal fort and think there will be no consequences? Do you think those folks thought it was just a harmless shelling of an occupied federal fort?
You can cry and claim it was ft sumpter, but the south let those soldiers go back home
quote:That's not true. There were two deaths and four soldiers injured as a result of the Confederate forces taking the federal fort.
no one was harmed. All the south did was make them leave the fort
Do you think it would be okay for Cuba to shell Naval Station Guantanamo Bay for 34 hours?
Would it be okay if all Cuba did was make the U.S. forces leave the base? Or do you think that would be an act of war?
This post was edited on 2/16/26 at 1:44 pm
Posted on 2/16/26 at 1:39 pm to magildachunks
quote:
The South attacked no less than 15 Union forts, armories, and Mints before the North "invasion".
Yea that’s false
The Union Soldiers were released on 04/14/1861
The North invaded Virginia on 05/24/1861
The number of attacks on forts in those 6 weeks: zero
Posted on 2/16/26 at 1:44 pm to Salviati
quote:
That's not true. There were two deaths and four soldiers injured as a result of the Confederate forces taking the federal fort.
Actually it is true. You were just baited by J6 insurrection logic
quote:
Major Robert Anderson negotiated the right to fire a 100-gun salute to the U.S. flag before evacuating. During the 47th discharge of the cannons on April 14, 1861, a pile of cartridges was accidentally ignited by a spark.
Men were killed, by an accident that occurred while sending the union soldiers off on a peaceful salute. A spark accidentally set off cartridges that created a small explosion. No one was actually harmed in any confrontation.
This post was edited on 2/16/26 at 1:45 pm
Posted on 2/16/26 at 1:46 pm to theunknownknight
quote:The accident was caused by the confrontation and taking of Fort Sumter. The accident would NOT have happened if the insurgents had not attempted to take the fort.
Men were killed, by an accident that occurred while sending the union soldiers off on a peaceful salute. A spark accidentally set off cartridges that created a small explosion. No one was actually harmed in any confrontation.
Do you think it would be okay for Cuba to shell Naval Station Guantanamo Bay for 34 hours?
Would it be okay if all Cuba did was make the U.S. forces leave the base?
Do you think President Trump would consider that to be an act of war?
Posted on 2/16/26 at 1:48 pm to soccerfüt
quote:
Now it has the largest concentration of millionaires in Adams County, Mississippi.
Madison county probably has more Natchez millionaires than Natchez at this point. I personally know several that left.
Posted on 2/16/26 at 1:52 pm to Salviati
quote:
The accident was caused by the confrontation and taking of Fort Sumter. The accident would NOT have happened if the insurgents had not attempted to take the fort.
Like I said - J6 “insurrection” logic
Take your logic to the absurd conclusion: if those men would have died on a train going home, their deaths would be attributed to Ft Sumpter because “MUH THEY WOULDNT HAVE BEEN ON THAT TRAIN OF NOT FOR FT SUMPTER!!”
They didn’t die in battle. Period. They died during a peaceful ceremony where they were being shown dignity and respect. The southerners were literally SALUTING the soldiers.
This post was edited on 2/16/26 at 1:53 pm
Posted on 2/16/26 at 1:57 pm to theunknownknight
quote:
Secession was not illegal.
Lincoln believed it was. There was no "exit clause" to be found in the Constitution and, as might makes right, the South lost the argument via the arbiter of the sword.
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