Domain: tiger-web1.srvr.media3.us Are "human rights" a real thing and why should I care? | Page 4 | O-T Lounge
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re: Are "human rights" a real thing and why should I care?

Posted on 2/11/26 at 4:31 pm to
Posted by epbart
new york city
Member since Mar 2005
3273 posts
Posted on 2/11/26 at 4:31 pm to
quote:

I agree with Jefferson.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.


I can't believe it took this long for someone to finally post the correct answer.


This is satisfactory as an answer if you understand what Jefferson means by happiness.

For one, he appears to be riffing on John Locke's: “life, liberty and estate (property).”

Secondly, Jefferson, like many of the Founding Fathers, was heavily influenced by Greek philosophy, by Aristotle and Epicurus, in particular.

So, if you google, "what is happiness as a motive to human affairs according to thomas jefferson", the generated answer, supported by a number of sources is:

quote:

According to Thomas Jefferson, happiness as a motive in human affairs is not a state of fleeting pleasure, ease, or selfish indulgence, but rather eudaemonia—a profound, lifelong pursuit of virtue, moral purpose, and human flourishing. Drawing from classical Greek philosophy, Epicureanism, and the Enlightenment, Jefferson viewed this pursuit as an active, disciplined commitment to personal improvement and service to the common good.

Here is a breakdown of happiness as a motive in human affairs according to Jefferson:
1. The Core Definition: Eudaemonia and Virtue
Virtue as Foundation: Jefferson believed that virtue was the foundation of true happiness. He famously wrote that "without virtue, happiness cannot be".
Active Pursuit: It is not a passive state to be achieved, but a continuous,, active pursuit.
Not Materialistic: Jeffersonian happiness is distinct from the pursuit of wealth or "worldly possessions". It was defined by "tranquility and occupation" (meaning purposeful activity) rather than "wealth or splendor".

2. Happiness as a Human Motivation
A "Soul Condition": It is a state of the soul that arises from living in harmony with conscience, reason, and moral purpose.
Service and Employment: Jefferson felt that a mind always employed is always happy, suggesting that purposeful work is a primary driver of happiness.
Individual and Collective Good: The pursuit of happiness includes contributing to the greater good, not just personal satisfaction.

3. Happiness and Government
Purpose of Government: Jefferson maintained that the "only orthodox object of the institution of government is to secure the greatest degree of happiness possible to the general mass of those associated under it".
Protection, Not Provision: The government's role is not to provide happiness (as it is not owed to anyone), but to protect the freedom in which citizens can pursue it.
"Rights" to Pursuit: He deemed the "pursuit of happiness" an inalienable right, implying that individuals must be free from oppression (a "disruption of energies") to pursue their own thriving.

4. Philosophical Influences
Epicureanism: In his later life, Jefferson identified as an Epicurean, which in his view meant a rational, gentle philosophy focusing on friendship, limiting desires to necessities, and achieving peace of mind.
Stoicism/Ancient Philosophy: He was heavily influenced by Cicero and other classical thinkers who emphasized that happiness is a result of a good conscience and self-discipline.

In summary, for Jefferson, happiness is the ultimate human endeavor that drives individuals to develop their talents, act with integrity, and contribute to the community, while the government's role is to ensure the liberty to do so.


If you google "what is happiness as a motive to human affairs according to Aristotle", the answer will be very similar.

In short, there was a very strong, ethical and moral dimension that informed Jefferson's interesting deviation in word choice away from Locke's assertion. Understanding this notion of happiness, it is clear that there is a dutiful component to it-- a responsibility as to how we conduct our affairs and how we treat one another... and that the harmony that arises from this way of life generates true happiness. Happiness, to Jefferson, is not just selfishly engaging in pleasurable activity.
Posted by GRTiger
On a roof eating alligator pie
Member since Dec 2008
70175 posts
Posted on 2/11/26 at 4:36 pm to
Such a good post.
Posted by Bonkers119
Baton Rouge
Member since Dec 2015
11854 posts
Posted on 2/11/26 at 4:39 pm to
quote:

I care about protecting the rights of Judeo-Christians


Nothing screams Christian like rejoicing in the suffering of others.
Posted by GRTiger
On a roof eating alligator pie
Member since Dec 2008
70175 posts
Posted on 2/11/26 at 4:44 pm to
I don't think Jesus ever said to only love Judeo-Christians.

Posted by Globetrotter747
Member since Sep 2017
5511 posts
Posted on 2/11/26 at 6:00 pm to
quote:

So every person has the innate understanding of an absolute moral code?

Do not agree.
quote:

Can we discuss how that may have happened?

I think what morality we have evolved from humans being a social species that is more productive working together.
Posted by GRTiger
On a roof eating alligator pie
Member since Dec 2008
70175 posts
Posted on 2/11/26 at 6:02 pm to
quote:

Do not agree.


Respectfully, I didn't ask you

quote:

I think what morality we have evolved from humans being a social species that is more productive working together


But since you're here, let's track morality to its origin. Forget a creator, where did it come from? Where did the enlightened atheist learn it?
Posted by The Pirate King
Pangu
Member since May 2014
67212 posts
Posted on 2/11/26 at 6:15 pm to
quote:

Nothing screams Christian like rejoicing in the suffering of others.


Shocking you don't understand the nuance between not getting worked up over something you have no control over versus rejoicing in the suffering of others.

Spoiler alert, there's evil shite happening around the globe 24/7 365. You could spend your entire life researching and being appalled at awful things and still never get to the end of it.
Posted by Globetrotter747
Member since Sep 2017
5511 posts
Posted on 2/11/26 at 6:56 pm to
quote:

Respectfully, I didn't ask you

Respectfully, I don’t care.
quote:

But since you're here, let's track morality to its origin. Forget a creator, where did it come from? Where did the enlightened atheist learn it?

I told you what it is. It is an extension of complex social constructs that vary by culture (including individuals) and has evolved over time.

It’s not really difficult to see.
Posted by Kafka
I am the moral conscience of TD
Member since Jul 2007
155736 posts
Posted on 2/11/26 at 7:03 pm to
Here's a little something I wrote in response to your post:

No man is an island,
Entire of itself.
Each is a piece of the continent,
A part of the main.
If a clod be washed away by the sea,
Europe is the less.
As well as if a promontory were.
As well as if a manor of thine own
Or of thine friend's were.
Each man's death diminishes me,
For I am involved in mankind.
Therefore, send not to know
For whom the bell tolls,
It tolls for thee.
Posted by OWLFAN86
Erotic Novelist
Member since Jun 2004
195601 posts
Posted on 2/11/26 at 7:27 pm to
quote:

the rights of Judeo-Christians worldwide
... endowed by the Creator. if you trully appreciate what the America expirement has been and still can be
You understand it's not limited to Americans, we should have a founding document that protects our ability to access, and with that blessing, we are required to extend it t

admitadly we haven't always done the best job of that but we've tried more than any other government or civilization that has existed prior to
Posted by GRTiger
On a roof eating alligator pie
Member since Dec 2008
70175 posts
Posted on 2/11/26 at 8:14 pm to
quote:

It is an extension of complex social constructs that vary by culture (including individuals) and has evolved over time.


But where did it start?

quote:

It’s not really difficult to see.


See when you go to this place, my end goal changes. Let's forget that. See above.
Posted by TexasTiger08
Member since Oct 2006
29621 posts
Posted on 2/11/26 at 11:39 pm to
quote:

You are doing something about it....you care. That means you may be less likely to support the abuser financially. It means you may vote for a politician in this country who is in a position to do something about it. I get it that we feel helpless and there's nothing we can do but our being aware and concerned is something and multiply that times millions it becomes a big something.


Touché.
Posted by Dalosaqy
I can't quite re
Member since Dec 2007
13389 posts
Posted on 2/12/26 at 1:15 am to
quote:

Are rights in general a real thing at all?
Read the US Constitution just for fun.
Posted by Stealth Matrix
29°59'55.98"N 90°05'21.85"W
Member since Aug 2019
11427 posts
Posted on 2/12/26 at 5:38 am to
quote:

Are "human rights" a real thing and why should I care?

quote:

I care about protecting the rights of Judeo-Christians

Posted by JiminyCricket
Member since Jun 2017
6201 posts
Posted on 2/12/26 at 6:52 am to
quote:

Read the US Constitution just for fun.


You missed my point.
Posted by Sweep Da Leg
Member since Sep 2013
2718 posts
Posted on 2/12/26 at 7:25 am to
quote:

Judeo-Christians


Is a made up term from WWII used for propaganda.
We’re a Christian founded nation. Get it right dummy
Posted by UptownJoeBrown
Baton Rouge
Member since Jul 2024
8471 posts
Posted on 2/12/26 at 7:33 am to
Google “natural rights”.
Posted by BrodyDad
Member since Dec 2025
189 posts
Posted on 2/12/26 at 7:50 am to
Yall have convinced me. Im off to join the Peace Corps.
Posted by Globetrotter747
Member since Sep 2017
5511 posts
Posted on 2/12/26 at 8:19 am to
quote:

But where did it start?

That’s like asking where language started. Morality started in a lot of different places at a lot of different times and has evolved considerably through the millennia. And morality can even be unique to the individual.

I doubt the ancient Aztecs who practiced human sacrifices had a morality consistent with modern Christian values. But then again God supposedly had Abraham all ready to slay his son Isaac before stopping him at the last second and needlessly sacrificing a ram instead.

So who knows?
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