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Started By
Message
re: Can an engineer or lithium battery expert make me feel better?
Posted on 8/2/24 at 8:14 am to XenScott
Posted on 8/2/24 at 8:14 am to XenScott
quote:
LI FE PO4 are very safe, safe for marine environments. The key is don’t buy cheap Chinese crap.
i upgraded my golf cart toe LifePO4 last year using a company out of GA with very good reviews.
has there been any updates on the country club golf cart shed that burned down?
was that fleet of golf carts LifePO4? seems once one caught on fire..the whole fleet went down.
under extreme heat; is any battery safe? seems like the answer is NO.
0
Posted on 8/2/24 at 8:17 am to CAD703X
If you stop buying cheap batteries on Amazon and stick to the name brand options that are UL1642 certified in the USA then you have little to worry about.
UL1642 Overview
IEC 6213 also exists and basically the safety requirements across the world for transport. Basically you cant fly your batteries on a plane without proving that it meets this standard anywhere in the world.
Once again cheap crap might have come across the ocean on a boat, and probably not verified to be certified when coming form places like China.
You are not building a battery powered system in the USA and not getting certified to these standards. Otherwise you are not allowed to transport and sell.
UL1642 Overview
IEC 6213 also exists and basically the safety requirements across the world for transport. Basically you cant fly your batteries on a plane without proving that it meets this standard anywhere in the world.
Once again cheap crap might have come across the ocean on a boat, and probably not verified to be certified when coming form places like China.
You are not building a battery powered system in the USA and not getting certified to these standards. Otherwise you are not allowed to transport and sell.
This post was edited on 8/2/24 at 8:19 am
Posted on 8/2/24 at 8:17 am to CAD703X
quote:
i keep replaying in my head what it would have been like had the elevator been full of people.
Weirdly, if the elevator was full you'd likely have 2-3 people as blockers that would take the brunt of it and the rest would've maybe gotten out with smoke inhalation injuries. Just my guess.
Posted on 8/2/24 at 8:18 am to CocomoLSU
quote:
"It's still under investigation," Kenner Fire Chief Terence Morris said Monday. "We've ruled out any suspicious activity. The early indications are that it could be something electrical."
The fire was contained to a standalone building that housed the country club's fleet of 70 golf carts and its pro shop, according to General Manager Michelle Yenni.
LINK
i cant seem to find any updates on this.
Posted on 8/2/24 at 8:20 am to CocomoLSU
quote:
otten out with smoke inhalation injuries. Just my guess.
what about the heat? it was an oven; that guy was charred; i dont think anyone would survive..how hot did it get?
look at cars in the parking lot next to that kenner fire
Posted on 8/2/24 at 8:21 am to CAD703X
Why do you think you’re not allowed to have them in checked airline luggage?
Posted on 8/2/24 at 8:23 am to CAD703X
i found this:
LINK
NINE HUNDRED AND THIRTY-TWO DEGREES
I don't want 'rapid disassembly' to be anywhere near my obituary
quote:
Let’s examine the inner workings of the cell more closely. A mild short will only cause elevated self-discharge and the heat buildup is minimal because the discharging power is very low. If enough microscopic metallic particles converge on one spot, a sizable current begins to flow between the electrodes of the cell, and the spot heats up and weakens. As a small water leak in a faulty hydro dam can develop into a torrent and take a structure down, so too can heat buildup damage the insulation layer in a cell and cause an electrical short.
The temperature can quickly reach 500°C (932°F), at which point the cell catches fire or it explodes. This thermal runaway that occurs is known as “venting with flame.” “Rapid disassembly” is the preferred term by the battery industry.
Uneven separators can also trigger cell failure. Poor conductivity due to dry areas increases the resistance, which can generate local heat spots that weaken the integrity of the separator. Heat is always an enemy of the battery.
LINK
NINE HUNDRED AND THIRTY-TWO DEGREES
I don't want 'rapid disassembly' to be anywhere near my obituary
This post was edited on 8/2/24 at 8:25 am
Posted on 8/2/24 at 8:24 am to CAD703X
quote:
What is trigger(s) that causes them to spark?
China. And we all have a bomb in our pocket.
Posted on 8/2/24 at 8:25 am to CAD703X
Look at Salt Technology
FZSoNick
Built in BMS, no gassing, no explosion threat
FZSoNick
Built in BMS, no gassing, no explosion threat
Posted on 8/2/24 at 8:26 am to CocomoLSU
quote:
That one is staying with me for a while. And I think pretty much 100% of people in that scenario are dead
Yup. Even if the flames didn't get you I'd think the fire would suck up all the oxygen pretty quick
Posted on 8/2/24 at 8:32 am to CocomoLSU
quote:
I've been replaying it in my head and thinking about what I would (or even could) do in that situation, and I'm coming up blank.
I'm avoiding elevators from now on. What a painful way to go.
Posted on 8/2/24 at 8:36 am to CAD703X
Some good lower-tech info in this piece LINK
I think most explosive failures are due to the battery casing shorting out to the same battery or an adjacent cell in a pack. Insulation between cells is a pack may just be a thin plastic sleeve. Once shorted the temp soars...battery ignites and explodes.
40+ years ago early lithium batteries became popular in ocean-deployed sensors. One such battery stored in a metal cabinet at U. Miami exploded taking the leg off a technician sitting nearby.
Just a few years ago a young man tinkered with a vape battery to get a higher current. The explosion next to his head killed him.
I have a few tool batteries and never charge them near combustibles.
I think most explosive failures are due to the battery casing shorting out to the same battery or an adjacent cell in a pack. Insulation between cells is a pack may just be a thin plastic sleeve. Once shorted the temp soars...battery ignites and explodes.
40+ years ago early lithium batteries became popular in ocean-deployed sensors. One such battery stored in a metal cabinet at U. Miami exploded taking the leg off a technician sitting nearby.
Just a few years ago a young man tinkered with a vape battery to get a higher current. The explosion next to his head killed him.
I have a few tool batteries and never charge them near combustibles.
Posted on 8/2/24 at 8:37 am to TigerTatorTots
quote:
There isn’t really. A co-worker had their house burn down earlier this year because the lithium batteries to his drills in his garage spontaneously exploded
Had a friend with the same problem. We caught the batteries before they burned down the garage, but it was not cool.
I have an old stove/oven unit that doesn't work. It came with the house. Instead of scrapping it, I hauled it out to my garden barn, shoved it in back, and I keep most of my batteries inside the oven.
If a battery melts down, I hope it's contained in the oven. If it does melt through the oven, hopefully it ony burns down the barn which is 25' from the house.
Posted on 8/2/24 at 8:37 am to Whiznot
quote:
I'm avoiding elevators from now on. What a painful way to go.
whos to say you're not stepping into an elevator with some urbanite who stuffed an e-Bike battery in his backpack he just ordered from TEMU??
i mean..this is a no-warning situation.
Posted on 8/2/24 at 8:40 am to Tree_Fall
quote:
Just a few years ago a young man tinkered with a vape battery to get a higher current. The explosion next to his head killed him.
I have a few tool batteries and never charge them near combustibles.
and there's a whole army of tik-tok morons who are now wetting a towel and draping it over their tesla plug when supercharging to make the sensor read lower temps and charge faster and effectively override the temp failsafe.
this is not going to end well.
Posted on 8/2/24 at 8:42 am to CAD703X
That’s just the modern day version of Darwin’s theory of evolution.
Posted on 8/2/24 at 8:43 am to CAD703X
So I’m on a road trip with one of these. Do I toss it now? Holy schnikes that elevator incident gives me the willies.
Posted on 8/2/24 at 8:47 am to CAD703X
All I’ve got here is that lithium batteries are legit in everything nowadays and if they were that spontaneously dangerous, a house or two in every neighborhood in the country would have burned down by now.
Think about how many portable electronics (mostly phones) smack onto the ground without catching fire.
Think about how many portable electronics (mostly phones) smack onto the ground without catching fire.
Posted on 8/2/24 at 8:47 am to CAD703X
quote:
what about the heat? it was an oven; that guy was charred; i dont think anyone would survive..how hot did it get?
look at cars in the parking lot next to that kenner fire
I'm saying the 2-3 closest to it are dead and likely shield the others enough to get out and possibly survive. Look at the right side of that car.
And I'm not saying I'm right. Just some of the shite that's gone through my mind when analyzing it for the last few days.
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