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Posted on 3/8/14 at 8:42 pm to xXLSUXx
Under what scenario would there be no debris field? Even a nose dive seems like the wings would rip off.
Posted on 3/8/14 at 8:51 pm to Traffic Circle
NBC story from last month on shoe bombs
SIAP
Article sights shoe bomb threat on flights originating overseas. Malaysia is a Muslim country, so there are going to be Islamic terrorist connections there. Perhaps this was meant to happen earlier or during the Olympics, but the heightened security measures derailed the plans.
All just speculation on my part.
SIAP
Article sights shoe bomb threat on flights originating overseas. Malaysia is a Muslim country, so there are going to be Islamic terrorist connections there. Perhaps this was meant to happen earlier or during the Olympics, but the heightened security measures derailed the plans.
All just speculation on my part.
Posted on 3/8/14 at 10:18 pm to Traffic Circle
quote:
Under what scenario would there be no debris field? Even a nose dive seems like the wings would rip off.
That's what I'm wondering. If it was a bomb there'd be pieces scattered all over the area. Even if it hit the water intact you would think there'd be some debris. Instead all we have are a pair of oil slicks. Very strange.
This post was edited on 3/8/14 at 10:19 pm
Posted on 3/8/14 at 11:50 pm to RollTide1987
It's possible that when the plane hit the water or the debris hit the water it sank so within minuets maybe hours of the crash only the oil slicks would visible from the air.
I believe the air France crash from 4 or 5 years ago was found two years after the fact.
I don't like to be negative in situations like this but I think we can now assume all are dead and the plane or plane debris is underwater and not visible from the air
I believe the air France crash from 4 or 5 years ago was found two years after the fact.
I don't like to be negative in situations like this but I think we can now assume all are dead and the plane or plane debris is underwater and not visible from the air
Posted on 3/8/14 at 11:57 pm to catholictigerfan
AP is now saying radar indicated that plane might have turned back.
ETA: or at least tried to. Coming from the Malaysian Air Force chief
ETA: or at least tried to. Coming from the Malaysian Air Force chief
This post was edited on 3/8/14 at 11:59 pm
Posted on 3/9/14 at 12:04 am to unbeWEAVEable
I wonder if they went off course over someones restricted air space and got shot down.
Posted on 3/9/14 at 12:04 am to catholictigerfan
I wouldn't really expect debris to be on top of the water either. I don't remember if they knew the approximate area of the air France plane or not, but it was at least 2 years until they found the black box.
This post was edited on 3/9/14 at 12:08 am
Posted on 3/9/14 at 12:30 am to TheIndulger
they did not know where the Air France jet went down but there was a definite debris field on the water they did find the oil slicks first then they found the galley and the head pilot
Posted on 3/9/14 at 12:39 am to kclsufan
That's what I was thinking when I saw that
Posted on 3/9/14 at 12:41 am to kclsufan
Who has restricted airspace in SE Asia for commercial airliners?
Posted on 3/9/14 at 12:46 am to TheIndulger
quote:
it was at least 2 years until they found the black box.
Deep water, the area where the plane was supposed to be flying is much more shallow.
Posted on 3/9/14 at 2:08 am to Traffic Circle
quote:
Under what scenario would there be no debris field? Even a nose dive seems like the wings would rip off.
One possibility is a loss of engine power such that the the plane cannot maintain altitude. The pilot makes a controlled decent, attempts a water landing which goes bad, and the plane cartwheels on the water possibly going inverted and sinking before anyone can get out. The plane that ditched in the Hudson river would have sunk rapidly if the river had not been so shallow that the tail came to rest on the river bottom. The oil slick they found is likely Jet A fuel which would start leaking out of the submerged fuel tank vents. The only hole in this theory is that the pilots probably would have put out a mayday call, but who knows what type of radio coverage there is in that area. Looking at this from the possibility of terrorism the same scenario would fit. A explosive device of the type someone could get on board the plane would likely not instantly destroy the plane, just disable it to the point it is going to go down. Such an explosion could also have damaged equipment on the plane that left it unable to make a distress call.
This post was edited on 3/9/14 at 2:27 am
Posted on 3/9/14 at 3:17 am to jbgleason
quote:
That's mostly correct except the warning probe for the wing icing failed because it froze. They then went into a stall and did all the wrong things to recover. Can't imagine having to ride it in from that high. Breaking up would be so much better.
Just read up on it. It was pilot error and a really terrible way to crash.
quote:
At 02:10:05 UTC the autopilot disengaged and the airplane transitioned from normal law to alternate law. The engines' auto-thrust systems disengaged three seconds later. Without the auto-pilot, the aircraft started to roll to the right due to turbulence, and the pilot reacted by deflecting his side-stick to the left. One consequence of the change to alternate law was an increase in the aircraft's sensitivity to roll, and the pilot's input over-corrected for the initial upset. During the next thirty seconds, the aircraft rolled alternately left and right as the pilot adjusted to the altered handling characteristics of his aircraft. At the same time he made an abrupt nose-up input on the side-stick, an action that was unnecessary and excessive under the circumstances. The aircraft's stall warning sounded briefly twice due to the angle of attack tolerance being exceeded, and the aircraft's recorded airspeed dropped sharply from 274 knots to 52 knots. The aircraft's angle of attack increased, and the aircraft started to climb. By the time the pilot had control of the aircraft's roll, it was climbing at nearly 7,000 ft/min.
At 02:10:34, after displaying incorrectly for half a minute, the left-side instruments recorded a sharp rise in airspeed to 215 knots, as did the Integrated Standby Instrument System (ISIS) another half a minute later (the right-side instruments are not recorded by the recorder). The icing event had lasted for just over a minute. The pilot continued making nose-up inputs. The trimmable horizontal stabilizer (THS) moved from three to thirteen degrees nose-up in about one minute, and remained in that latter position until the end of the flight.
At 02:11:10 UTC, the aircraft had climbed to its maximum altitude of around 38,000 feet. There, its angle of attack was 16 degrees, and the thrust levers were in the Takeoff/Go-around detent (fully forward), and at 02:11:15 UTC the pitch attitude was slightly over 16 degrees and falling, but the angle of attack rapidly increased towards 30 degrees. A second consequence of the reconfiguration into alternate law was that "stall protection" no longer operated. Whereas in normal law, the airplane's flight management computers would have acted to prevent such a high angle of attack, in alternate law this did not happen. (Indeed, the switch into alternate law occurred precisely because the computers, denied reliable speed data, were no longer able to provide such protection - nor many of the other functions expected of normal law). The wings lost lift and the aircraft stalled.
At 02:11:40 UTC, the captain re-entered the cockpit. The angle of attack had then reached 40 degrees, and the aircraft had descended to 35,000 feet with the engines running at almost 100% N1 (the rotational speed of the front intake fan, which delivers most of a turbofan engine's thrust). The stall warnings stopped, as all airspeed indications were now considered invalid by the aircraft's computer due to the high angle of attack. In other words, the aircraft was oriented nose-up but descending steeply. Roughly 20 seconds later, at 02:12 UTC, the pilot decreased the aircraft's pitch slightly, air speed indications became valid and the stall warning sounded again and sounded intermittently for the remaining duration of the flight, but stopped when the pilot increased the aircraft's nose-up pitch. From there until the end of the flight, the angle of attack never dropped below 35 degrees. From the time the aircraft stalled until it impacted with the ocean, the engines were primarily developing either N1 100% or TOGA thrust, though they were briefly spooled down to about N1 50% on two occasions. The engines always responded to commands and were developing in excess of N1 100% when the flight ended.
The flight data recordings stopped at 02:14:28 UTC, or 3 hours 45 minutes after takeoff. At that point, the aircraft's ground speed was 107 knots, and it was descending at 10,912 feet per minute. Its pitch was 16.2 degrees (nose up), with a roll angle of 5.3 degrees left. During its descent, the aircraft had turned more than 180 degrees to the right to a compass heading of 270 degrees. The aircraft remained stalled during its entire 3 minute 30 second descent from 38,000 feet before it hit the ocean surface at a speed of 151 knots (280 km/h), comprising vertical and horizontal components of both 107 knots. The aircraft broke up on impact; everyone on board died.
This post was edited on 3/9/14 at 3:46 am
Posted on 3/9/14 at 3:23 am to TheIndulger
quote:
I wouldn't really expect debris to be on top of the water either.
Buoyant shite will not refuse to float, sorry but unless sealed in a container stuff like life vests and the such will make their way to the surface. Finding them in time before they float off is another story.
Posted on 3/9/14 at 8:29 am to tigerfan88
quote:
If I was a betting man I would lean towards terrorism at the moment. The passport thing combined with no distress signal at all and boeings sterling reputation is pretty telling
Posted on 3/9/14 at 8:37 am to Snatchy
Wasn't the show LOST about an island in this area???
Posted on 3/9/14 at 8:41 am to unbeWEAVEable
I think so.
Posted on 3/9/14 at 8:44 am to redstick13
If you're interested in that Air France flight 447 crash, there was an awesome NOVA documentary on it that I watched on Netflix a while ago...if it's still there, I would highly recommend it.
Posted on 3/9/14 at 8:46 am to When in Rome
Sooooooo
The tickets that were bought with the two stolen passports were bought at the same time.
Really looks suspicious. Granted they could have just been people trying to get into other countries illegally. Its starting to be too much of a coincidence.
The tickets that were bought with the two stolen passports were bought at the same time.
Really looks suspicious. Granted they could have just been people trying to get into other countries illegally. Its starting to be too much of a coincidence.
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