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Message
New Gun Build, 17 Remington Fireball
Posted on 5/6/25 at 11:36 pm
Posted on 5/6/25 at 11:36 pm
I’ve been hunting prairie dogs for 30 years or so, going on 2-3 prairie dog hunts every year. Although I've always hunted pd's with specialty pistols, my hunting battery has evolved. I started out w/ a T/C Contender in 223 Remington and an XP-100 in 22 BR. Later I added an XP in 6 BR In recent times I’ve moved into all bolt action specialty pistols: 20 VarTarg, 223 Ackley Improved and 22 Nosler. When the wind isn’t strong, the 20 VarTarg is my favorite. It’s very pleasant to shoot and surprisingly destructive. It’s built on a Howa Mini-Action with an 16” McGowen barrel and JTAC Industries chassis stock. For years I’ve toyed w/ the idea of a 17 caliber handgun. This year I pulled the trigger and built a 17 Remington Fireball using a Howa Mini-Action, a 16” Pac-Nor barrel with a threaded muzzle and JTAC Industries chassis stock in carbon gray color. Last week was my first opportunity to shoot it and I’m very impressed thus far.
I bought the barreled action from Brownell’s. The factory barrel was 223 Remington with a fairly thin contour and a threaded muzzle. The trigger is two stage, but breaks nicely at 2.5#. The barreled action came with a single 10 round magazine. When I built the 20 VarTarg with the same barreled action, it came without a magazine, but a 30 minute call with Customer Service got me a magazine. The magazine is cheap looking, but costs $40 and can be hard to find. The rounds of the new gun feed pretty well from all the magazines with a small hitch. I added an 1913 rail adapter at the rear of the gun to attach a sling swivel stud.
So far the loads use Nosler 17 Rem Fireball brass, CCI BR4 brass, 20 gr bullets (Hornady V-Max and Varrmageddon plastic tip) and CFE BLK and Accurate 2200 powders. RCBS dies were used.
After only shooting18 shots, the gun looks to be a shooter. Thus far, it prefers the CFE BLK/ 20 V-Max combination over the AA 2200/20 gr Varmageddon loads. The CFE BLK/20 gr Max loads shot 3 shot groups measuring 0.39” and 0.68: I mixed chowder charges and targets w/ AA 2200, but groups were about 3/4”. On the second shoot, groups were a disappointing 1.0" Chamber pressures look ok so far w/ all loads. If the AA 2200 groups don’t improve, I’ll try AA 2230.
Conclusions: I’m happy with my new gun. Accuracy looks promising. I’ve done nothing to the stock. The scope, rings and base are good. I’ve only encountered two problems, but I’ve remedied them. The Howa Mini-Action came w/ a factory 223 Rem barrel. It was reasonably accurate w/ some old handholds I shot in it, but I couldn’t get the barrel off. I had the same problem w/ the 20 VarTarg build. I turned the new barreled action over to a local gunsmith, knowing he might have to make a relief cut. Since time was getting low, I also asked him to install the new barrel and set the headspace. Due to a death in the family and the gunsmith becoming ill, the work was delayed. My biggest disappointment was the finish on the Pac-Nor barrel. I bought their best barrel and waited 5 months, but was very disappointed when it arrived: There were a lot of scratches on the outside of the barrel and some gouges that were deep enough to feel. I sent an email and videos to Pac-Nor. His response, “You ordered a no polish barrel.” He later agreed to polish for free, but I’d have to pay shipping both ways ($35 one way delivery from the factory). I ended up hand polishing it myself w/ various grates of sand paper . The gunsmith also polished it some using his lathe. It looks ok now although two dings remain. I’ve bought a lot of “no polish” factory and custom barrels through the years, but I’ve never seen a new or used barrel look nearly as bad as this one.
Usually when I finish a new project, there’s a couple things I would’ve done different. This time, the only thing I might’ve done differently is buy a different barrel. Unfortunately, there aren’t many folks who make 17 caliber barrels. I initially wanted to buy a McGown barrel and use their “Howage” barrel nut like I did w/ the VarTarg, but they don’t make 17 caliber barrels. I bought the Pac-Nor “pre-fit” barrel w/ the intention of using a “Howage” barrel nut. It was not until the barrel arrived that I found out their “pre-fit” barrel doesn’t use a barrel nut to set the headspace. Regardless, as long as the gun looks ok and shoots good like it does, I’ll be happy.
I bought the barreled action from Brownell’s. The factory barrel was 223 Remington with a fairly thin contour and a threaded muzzle. The trigger is two stage, but breaks nicely at 2.5#. The barreled action came with a single 10 round magazine. When I built the 20 VarTarg with the same barreled action, it came without a magazine, but a 30 minute call with Customer Service got me a magazine. The magazine is cheap looking, but costs $40 and can be hard to find. The rounds of the new gun feed pretty well from all the magazines with a small hitch. I added an 1913 rail adapter at the rear of the gun to attach a sling swivel stud.
So far the loads use Nosler 17 Rem Fireball brass, CCI BR4 brass, 20 gr bullets (Hornady V-Max and Varrmageddon plastic tip) and CFE BLK and Accurate 2200 powders. RCBS dies were used.
After only shooting18 shots, the gun looks to be a shooter. Thus far, it prefers the CFE BLK/ 20 V-Max combination over the AA 2200/20 gr Varmageddon loads. The CFE BLK/20 gr Max loads shot 3 shot groups measuring 0.39” and 0.68: I mixed chowder charges and targets w/ AA 2200, but groups were about 3/4”. On the second shoot, groups were a disappointing 1.0" Chamber pressures look ok so far w/ all loads. If the AA 2200 groups don’t improve, I’ll try AA 2230.
Conclusions: I’m happy with my new gun. Accuracy looks promising. I’ve done nothing to the stock. The scope, rings and base are good. I’ve only encountered two problems, but I’ve remedied them. The Howa Mini-Action came w/ a factory 223 Rem barrel. It was reasonably accurate w/ some old handholds I shot in it, but I couldn’t get the barrel off. I had the same problem w/ the 20 VarTarg build. I turned the new barreled action over to a local gunsmith, knowing he might have to make a relief cut. Since time was getting low, I also asked him to install the new barrel and set the headspace. Due to a death in the family and the gunsmith becoming ill, the work was delayed. My biggest disappointment was the finish on the Pac-Nor barrel. I bought their best barrel and waited 5 months, but was very disappointed when it arrived: There were a lot of scratches on the outside of the barrel and some gouges that were deep enough to feel. I sent an email and videos to Pac-Nor. His response, “You ordered a no polish barrel.” He later agreed to polish for free, but I’d have to pay shipping both ways ($35 one way delivery from the factory). I ended up hand polishing it myself w/ various grates of sand paper . The gunsmith also polished it some using his lathe. It looks ok now although two dings remain. I’ve bought a lot of “no polish” factory and custom barrels through the years, but I’ve never seen a new or used barrel look nearly as bad as this one.
Usually when I finish a new project, there’s a couple things I would’ve done different. This time, the only thing I might’ve done differently is buy a different barrel. Unfortunately, there aren’t many folks who make 17 caliber barrels. I initially wanted to buy a McGown barrel and use their “Howage” barrel nut like I did w/ the VarTarg, but they don’t make 17 caliber barrels. I bought the Pac-Nor “pre-fit” barrel w/ the intention of using a “Howage” barrel nut. It was not until the barrel arrived that I found out their “pre-fit” barrel doesn’t use a barrel nut to set the headspace. Regardless, as long as the gun looks ok and shoots good like it does, I’ll be happy.
3
Posted on 5/7/25 at 6:27 am to TigerOnThe Hill
I always like your threads.
What caliber would you suggest for prairie dogs if you were going to shoot factory loads?
It’s about time for me to buy a new gun. I would like something fast and flat shooting.
What caliber would you suggest for prairie dogs if you were going to shoot factory loads?
It’s about time for me to buy a new gun. I would like something fast and flat shooting.
Posted on 5/7/25 at 6:46 am to TigerOnThe Hill
Great stuff. Been shooting a 221 fireball for quite some time.
Posted on 5/7/25 at 11:38 am to Shut Up Mulllet
Thx for the kind words.
quote]What caliber would you suggest for prairie dogs if you were going to shoot factory loads?[/quote]
Good question. The 223 Remington is ALWAYS a good gun for pd hunting whether one is using factory loads or hand loads. OTOH, the 204 Ruger is really awesome. It's flatter shooting and has less recoil than the 223. Being able to spot your shots is a BIG help. Depending on the weight of the rifle, one might not be able to self spot w/ a 223, but should be able to w/ the 204. The 22-250 is a good pd gun as well but burns more powder and has more muzzle blast and recoil than the 204 and 223. 221 Fireball is great, but factory loads are hard to find and expensive. I've had friends shoot pd's w/ a 243, but they used handloads. The key thing w/ any pd gun is bullet choice. It's imperative to use a very fragile bullet that will go to pieces when it hits the target and not ricochet as there are usually cattle in the pasture as well. I like fragile HP bullets like the Speer TNT or plastic tip bullets like the Hornady VMax, Nosler Ballistic Tip or Varmageddon (either HP or plastic tip). I find myself moving away from traditional lead tip soft points. They aren't bad, but they don't seem as destructive. One of my few "rules" for pd hunting: No FMJ bullets.
quote]What caliber would you suggest for prairie dogs if you were going to shoot factory loads?[/quote]
Good question. The 223 Remington is ALWAYS a good gun for pd hunting whether one is using factory loads or hand loads. OTOH, the 204 Ruger is really awesome. It's flatter shooting and has less recoil than the 223. Being able to spot your shots is a BIG help. Depending on the weight of the rifle, one might not be able to self spot w/ a 223, but should be able to w/ the 204. The 22-250 is a good pd gun as well but burns more powder and has more muzzle blast and recoil than the 204 and 223. 221 Fireball is great, but factory loads are hard to find and expensive. I've had friends shoot pd's w/ a 243, but they used handloads. The key thing w/ any pd gun is bullet choice. It's imperative to use a very fragile bullet that will go to pieces when it hits the target and not ricochet as there are usually cattle in the pasture as well. I like fragile HP bullets like the Speer TNT or plastic tip bullets like the Hornady VMax, Nosler Ballistic Tip or Varmageddon (either HP or plastic tip). I find myself moving away from traditional lead tip soft points. They aren't bad, but they don't seem as destructive. One of my few "rules" for pd hunting: No FMJ bullets.
Posted on 5/7/25 at 11:52 am to TigerOnThe Hill
my recently passed uncle has a 17 Remington fireball rifle (7 CDL) that we used to shoot nutria rats. Nothing will roll them like that thing
Last time we hunted he told me he was out of factory ammo though and couldn’t find any more. Badass rifle round for sure
Last time we hunted he told me he was out of factory ammo though and couldn’t find any more. Badass rifle round for sure
Posted on 5/7/25 at 11:53 am to TigerOnThe Hill
thx for sharing brother as this topic is definitely in my wheel-house. 
I've owned a 1/2 dozen Pac-Nor 3-groove Select Match .17 caliber barrels and they all shot extremely well. Other than the barrel nut configuration, you should have nothing to worry about regarding accuracy. Those Howa mini barreled actions are a great deal and make a great donor action for an affordable priced custom build rifle. Other .17 caliber barrel options: Lilja, Shilen, Wilson Arms (used by Cooper Firearms), McGowen, and Schneider. Bartlein and Kreiger no longer make 17's.
Powders: VV N120, Benchmark, H4198, H322, TAC, and X-Terminator served me well. 20gr - 25gr bullets really shine in that small case.
I've owned a 1/2 dozen Pac-Nor 3-groove Select Match .17 caliber barrels and they all shot extremely well. Other than the barrel nut configuration, you should have nothing to worry about regarding accuracy. Those Howa mini barreled actions are a great deal and make a great donor action for an affordable priced custom build rifle. Other .17 caliber barrel options: Lilja, Shilen, Wilson Arms (used by Cooper Firearms), McGowen, and Schneider. Bartlein and Kreiger no longer make 17's.
Powders: VV N120, Benchmark, H4198, H322, TAC, and X-Terminator served me well. 20gr - 25gr bullets really shine in that small case.
Posted on 5/7/25 at 2:54 pm to cgrand
quote:
Last time we hunted he told me he was out of factory ammo though and couldn’t find any more.
Sounds like a good reason to start handloading or ask a known handloader to load up some ammo. Lots of good components for the 17 RFB.
Posted on 5/7/25 at 3:05 pm to Got Blaze
I remember you're a 17 afficionado. I've got a LOT to learn. Since the initial shooting I've been frustrated finding a load for the 20 gr Varmageddon plastic tip bullet. I was disappointed w/ accuracy using AA 2200 and Western X-terminator (rebranded AA 2230). I think I've got a load w/ H335 and the VG bullet, but I'm also going to try N133. Starting w/ powders I already have. I've run IMR 4227 in the 221 FB w/ good success, but haven't found reliable loads for 4227 and the 17 RFB. Have you ever tried 4227 for this round? I leave next next for a pd hunt so obviously the additional load work will be later. I also want to try 20 gr HPs from Midway and Varmageddon and 25 gr VMax bullets. McGowen no longer makes 17 caliber barrels and Shilen had a 12 month wait. 
ETA: I also tried LT-32 but accuracy was subpar.
ETA: I also tried LT-32 but accuracy was subpar.
This post was edited on 5/7/25 at 8:40 pm
Posted on 5/7/25 at 3:39 pm to TigerOnThe Hill
another powder to try is the 8208 XBR
Posted on 5/7/25 at 4:29 pm to bbvdd
quote:
another powder to try is the 8208 XBR
Lots of good reports using it in the 17 RFB. Unfortunately, I don't have it. I do have Shooter's World AR Plus and Tactical Rifle, but haven't found any load data for this application. The times I've shot Shooter's World powders, I like them, but load data is very limited.
Posted on 5/7/25 at 5:36 pm to TigerOnThe Hill
H322 under a 20g V-Max ... 3850fps is easy on the barrel and accurate
I'll find you more data once I get home
I'll find you more data once I get home
Posted on 5/7/25 at 6:52 pm to TigerOnThe Hill
quote:
Unfortunately, I don't have it.
I have a little bit of it and if I was closer I’d let you have it.
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