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Message
re: A biblical warning about our times
Posted on 2/6/22 at 1:39 pm to Revelator
Posted on 2/6/22 at 1:39 pm to Revelator
quote:
And the vast majority of their congregation is biblically illiterate and worse, most don’t even have a rudimentary knowledge of their own churches history, writings or doctrine.
This is true of 99% of all churches in the US regardless of denomination.
1
Posted on 2/6/22 at 1:57 pm to Revelator
I am presuming you are An Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB)? Because they are the wickedest catholic haters.
I also in general take issue with the don't drink part of some religious sects. As Jesus speaks over and over of drinking wine at weddings. Even turning water into wine.
Right now there are catholic priests speaking out because Francis forbids the Traditional Latin Mass. There is no reason to forbid this. But that is another subject.
As well as Saint Malachy prophesies on the last Pope & Fatima.
I also think studying Saint Padre Pio is most interesting.
I also in general take issue with the don't drink part of some religious sects. As Jesus speaks over and over of drinking wine at weddings. Even turning water into wine.
Right now there are catholic priests speaking out because Francis forbids the Traditional Latin Mass. There is no reason to forbid this. But that is another subject.
As well as Saint Malachy prophesies on the last Pope & Fatima.
I also think studying Saint Padre Pio is most interesting.
Posted on 2/6/22 at 2:01 pm to LSUconvert
quote:
Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man. - Luke 21:36
Simply stated: Know the Bible and it's teachings for it has been written ....
Jesus lists three things that can weigh down our hearts; (1) carousing; (2) drunkenness; and (3) the cares of this life. The expression “that Day” refers to the end time and the day of the Lord’s return. “Watch therefore” means I am warning you.
If a believer is naïve enough to follow the destruction of the world ...you end up up with what I stated earlier ....A church filled with pew sitters and a pastor that won't recognize the signs when the time has come. evident form one poster already .....that claimed to have been a Catholic and now is an atheist. All that was stated is that he read the science and decided he would be his own god.
Posted on 2/6/22 at 2:12 pm to Revelator
This thread has made for enjoyable reading, I love how "christs" church's disagree amongst themselves. If y'all can't agree, why should I believe. I don't need church to be a good person.
Carry on with the fighting.
Carry on with the fighting.
Posted on 2/6/22 at 2:20 pm to bluedragon
Posted on 2/6/22 at 3:02 pm to cajunangelle
quote:
I am presuming you are An Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB)? Because they are the wickedest catholic haters. I also in general take issue with the don't drink part of some religious sects. As Jesus speaks over and over of drinking wine at weddings. Even turning water into wine.
I am Southern Baptist, and I agree. The strict prohibition on all drinking is a manmade rule and can’t be found in scripture.
Posted on 2/6/22 at 4:35 pm to Revelator
quote:
It’s not simply about these things being done, but the widespread practice of these traits, how they are done without any remorse or repentance, and how it’s looked upon in a favorable way and not something to be shunned.
Right Rev.
20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!
The one prophecy that absolutely cannot be attributed to another era is the return of the Jewish people to their ancient homeland and the rebirth of the nation of Israel. Who has heard such a thing? Who has seen such things? Shall a land be born in one day? Shall a nation be brought forth in one moment? For as soon as Zion was in labor she brought forth her children. - Isaiah 66:8
Yes it can, and it was on May 14, 1948.
This doesn't even touch upon the many prophecies about their 2000-year Diaspora or the incredible rise of Israel as a a major food producer, technological marvel, and a military power. If a person spent a month studying and understanding all the prophecies about the Jewish people, they would realize that God's Word is absolute Truth. Prophecy is what sets the Bible apart from all other religious texts, and there is no prophecy that is as unique and "provable" than that of Israel's rebirth as a nation.
Posted on 2/6/22 at 9:11 pm to Revelator
quote:
I am Southern Baptist, and I agree. The strict prohibition on all drinking is a manmade rule and can’t be found in scripture.
As am I and I agree.
But would point out the agrarian society of OT Israel has little in common with the liquor industry of today.
"And do not get drunk with wine, in which there is debauchery, but be filled with the Spirit" (Eph 5:18)
Jesus has something far better than getting drunk.
Posted on 2/6/22 at 9:57 pm to L.A.
quote:
I'm late to this debate, but Azkiger is absolutely correct on that. The disciples believed it, and do did the Apostle Paul. You can also make a good case that Jesus believed it as well
quote:
Jesus said, "Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.” Matthew 16:28
Regarding Mt. 16:28, in my view Jesus is speaking in reference to his soon appearance on the mount of transfiguration.
In vs. 28 Jesus makes this bold claim: "For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and WILL THEN REPAY EVERY PERSON ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS." he prefaces His next claim with "Amen (truly), I say to you" which carries with the idea 'and watch this.'
Since there were no chapter divisions in the original Gospel, the discourse picks up in 17:1 as told by Matthew with a notable time marker ("After six days") and the use of historical present verbs. These are used to narrate a past event with vividness as if the action is unfolding before the reader's eyes. When this is understood, 17:1ff is presented as the fulfillment of 16:28.
To illustrate, it would be if an MLB player predicted he would win the triple crown in the upcoming season. Paused, and moreover predicted he would pitch a no hitter on opening day. Then the story continues with the storyteller describing in real-time terms just how he did what he said he would do. IMO, that is just what Matthew does.
This understanding is confirmed in 2 Peter 1:16-19 when Peter writes as follows:
"For we did not follow cleverly devised tales when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of His majesty. For when He received honor and glory from God the Father, such a declaration as this was made to Him by the Majestic Glory: “This is My beloved Son with whom I am well pleased”— and we ourselves heard this declaration made from heaven when we were with Him on the holy mountain."
This post was edited on 2/7/22 at 3:10 am
Posted on 2/7/22 at 2:31 am to Macavity92
quote:
I could take that vague collection of phrases and apply it to almost every time period since the phrase was written. The problem with looking for signs is that people that do often have a very serious recency bias.
That's part of the 'recipe.' Every generation ought to watch for the signs.
The point being made in II Tim. 3:1-5 in the OP is that there will be an intensification of these things as time marches on, not that there were no instances in the first century or other generations.
As an example, take the homosexual revolution we've observed in the last 4-5 decades. Homosexuality is consistently condemned in God's Word from Genesis to Revelation (cp. "dogs" in Rev. 22:15). It was viewed in every (?) culture as sexual aberration until now (the parts don't correspond and they don't reproduce). Now it is formally sanctioned as normal (Obergefell v. Hodges).
The following verses (II Tim. 3:6-9) give an example of what Paul has in mind. Jannes and Jambres (Egyptian magicians who contended with Moses but not mentioned by name) are the type Timothy is to avoid. IOW, those that promote and represent such excess and God-opposed morality.
Posted on 2/7/22 at 3:09 am to Champagne
quote:
Also please tell Revelator that the phrase "Imputed Righteousness" appears nowhere in the Bible and that this doctrine was not in the Church for the first 1,500 years of the history of Christ's Church.
I cannot tell Revelator that. The locus of inspiration is Scripture, not church history.
Rom. 4:5-6 states: "But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness, just as David also speaks of the blessing of the person to whom God credits righteousness apart from works"
The word translated "credits" above is from the Gk. word log?zomai. Its base meaning (related to our word logic) is to count, to put together in one's mind, to calculate. From there, it meant to credit or reckon or (watch this) impute.
Imputed righteousness is on solid Biblical grounds.
When one places their faith in the Lord Jesus, God credits the righteousness of Christ to our account because He credited our sins to Jesus on the Cross.
That's amazing grace. I get His righteousness because He took my sin.
My sin—oh, the bliss of this glorious thought!—
My sin, not in part but the whole,
Is nailed to the cross, and I bear it no more,
Praise the Lord, praise the Lord, O my soul!
From the hymn "It Is Well with My Soul"
Posted on 2/7/22 at 6:52 am to Revelator
quote:
Said by a man who belongs to an antichrist church led by an apostate Pope.
Ad Homenin
Come on rev you are better than this.
Posted on 2/7/22 at 6:55 am to Revelator
quote:
As an ex-Catholic who attended Catholic elementary school, I’ve already done that.
Which makes you an expert on Catholic Teaching. Ok got it
I’ll respond in more detail later but the fact that you ignored the council of Trent in my response shows you, you don’t understand Catholic Teaching. You just rely on quoting scripture and using your own interpretation of that scripture. While documents like the council of Trent are not scripture and shouldn’t be taken as such, they will be full of references to the scriptures and are also based on hundreds if not a thousand years of Scripture Study and development.
Personally, I’ll trust the interpretation of justification from St. Paul by the Council of Trent and the Church who was involved in that council than my own interpretation, or someone on a message board.
This post was edited on 2/7/22 at 6:59 am
Posted on 2/7/22 at 10:03 am to catholictigerfan
quote:
Which makes you an expert on Catholic teaching
I never said that. All I said is, I’ve already read the Catechism as a rebuttal to you advising me to do so.
Let me ask you a question, you say that Catholic teachings are the bedrock of your faith right?
Well, what about all the teachings that were added piecemeal along the way? What happened to Catholics that died before the church decided the doctrine that Mary was sinless? Was their understating incomplete?
What about Catholics that died before the Church decided the Pope was infallible in proclamations made
Ex Cathedra? Was their understanding incomplete?
What about all the parents for thousands of years who lost unbaptized babies who thought they could never get to heaven and who had to burry their kids in unmarked graves outside the normal cemetery?
Then one day, a bunch of guys in robes sit around and say, you know what, God changed his mind about the unbaptized babies. They can now go to heaven!
Don’t pretend that the Catholic Church’s teachings haven’t changed along the way and that it’s been the same throughout history.
Their teachings were changed as recently as Vatican 2.
Posted on 2/7/22 at 10:23 am to Revelator
quote:
If salvation is based on one’s works, even partially, then it is no longer a gift and is then reliant on the person keeping himself saved.
I never said this.
What I said was initial justification is by the gift and grace of God alone. However, as St. Paul himself says we should work on our salvation with fear and trembling.
No-one can earn his own salvation it only comes through the grace of Jesus Christ however, we can lose the salvation God gave us by our sinfulness. I point you to John 15:1-17. It's not a direct explanation of how we lose our salvation but an indirect one. I hope it's not too hard for you to see.
Again as I've said before, what you claim we believe, the Catholic Church in the Council of Trent has condemned as heresy.
quote:
Paul here is describing the characteristics of what a saving faith looks like. Saving faith isn’t simply walking an aisle and saying words. It’s a life changing event and the Holy Spirit takes up residence in your body and life and you become a new creature. And that kind of faith produces works.
And if your faith doesn’t produce good works, it’s a false faith.
Some people decide to turn over a new leaf, and they were never drawn by the Holy Spirit to repent, but they simply prayed a sinner’s prayer, but nothing changed in their life.
This is a false faith
I guess you meant to say St. James, but why is your interpretation of James correct and mine wrong?
As I said St. Paul is speaking primarily about initial justification or the grace of justification we obtain at our baptisms. St. James is speaking about the work of salvation which we will be judged on by Jesus at the end of time. You know the whole, if you don't feed me cloth me, visit me, etc. you will be condemned.
What seems clear to me, and correct me if I'm wrong. But you believe that if we obtain the true gift of faith from God we can never lose it. While the Church teaches that even if we obtain salvation through baptism we can still lose our salvation through sin. Just as a branch connected to Jesus can be cut off if he/she doesn't bear fruit in their lives.
BTW a branch cannot connect to the branch on his own, only through being connected to Jesus Christ the Vine can a branch be saved.
Posted on 2/7/22 at 10:30 am to catholictigerfan
quote:
BTW a branch cannot connect to the branch on his own, only through being connected to Jesus Christ the Vine can a branch be saved.
A church that believes in lining up to confess their sins to a priest, then paying retribution for the sin ...
Seems that Jesus covered that price on Calgary and when resurrected. There is no mention of paying humans for the gift of forgiveness. But the Catholic Church believes ...
Posted on 2/7/22 at 10:39 am to Revelator
quote:
Let me ask you a question, you say that Catholic teachings are the bedrock of your faith right?
Jesus Christ is the bedrock of my faith, but I also believe he left us a Church.
quote:
Catholics that died before the church decided the doctrine that Mary was sinless? Was their understating incomplete?
Yes, complete understanding is not a necessity for salvation. BTW no-one not even all the combined knowledge on earth could possibly understand all theology.
quote:
What about all the parents for thousands of years who lost unbaptized babies who thought they could never get to heaven and who had to burry their kids in unmarked graves outside the normal cemetery?
Then one day, a bunch of guys in robes sit around and say, you know what, God changed his mind about the unbaptized babies. They can now go to heaven!
Quote me Catholic Teaching that shows once we said unbaptized infants can't go to heaven, and then quote me another Catholic Teaching that says they can.
As I understand Catholic history, the Church never officially taught that non-baptized infants can't obtain salvation. The scriptures do teach that without baptism one cannot be saved. The question an extremely complicated one asks what about those who through no fault of their own cannot be baptized. Infants in the womb, pagans who never heard of Jesus or the Bible, or the God of Abraham. Are they going to hell even though they had no free choice to choose God or evil? There are still some Catholic who say yes they will go to hell and they are not in error to say this, personally I believe an infinitely merciful God would not allow people to go to hell who through no fault of their own didn't recieve what was necessary for salvation. We are bound by what God told us to do, but God can save whomever he pleases even if they weren't baptized for example.
As I understand it the Church teaches that we entrust those who die without baptism through no fault of their own to the infinite mercy of God.
THE HOPE OF SALVATION FOR INFANTS WHO DIE WITHOUT BEING BAPTISED
Read the above link if you have the time, it's the closest you will see the Church come to teaching what happens to unbaptized infants. It's a complicated matter and the Church has never come down on one side or the other.
quote:
Don’t pretend that the Catholic Church’s teachings haven’t changed along the way and that it’s been the same throughout history.
I point you to the concept of the development of doctrine. Doctrine doesn't change it only develops. John Henry Newman spoke a lot about this but that is a lot to read and kinda complicated. But the basic concept is doctrine is not set in stone it is more like a living being that grows and develops. Its central truths never change but our understanding of those truths change constantly.
Posted on 2/7/22 at 10:45 am to bluedragon
quote:
A church that believes in lining up to confess their sins to a priest, then paying retribution for the sin ...
The power to bind and loose is where the Church primarily gets her authority to forgive sin and give penance.
quote:
Seems that Jesus covered that price on Calgary and when resurrected
He did
quote:
There is no mention of paying humans for the gift of forgiveness
Are you talking about indulgences? Because an indulgence can never forgive mortal sin. Only Baptism and Confession can forgive mortal sin.
quote:
But the Catholic Church believes ...
What? Finish your statement.
BTW confession is very biblical.
LINK
Posted on 2/7/22 at 10:48 am to FATBOY TIGER
quote:
This thread has made for enjoyable reading, I love how "christs" church's disagree amongst themselves. If y'all can't agree, why should I believe. I don't need church to be a good person.
Carry on with the fighting.
Different coaches apply different strategies from play books to win games.
Different faiths apply scriptures to win the acceptance of God.
Don't be so smug. It's not fooling the Almighty.
Posted on 2/7/22 at 10:50 am to cajunangelle
The seven deadly sins have always been with us, but we have seen a severe uptick in all of them lately. Can you think of any of these that we don't see on a daily basis?
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