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Message
re: A biblical warning about our times
Posted on 2/8/22 at 2:31 pm to L.A.
Posted on 2/8/22 at 2:31 pm to L.A.
quote:
Tell me about it. I just finished reading the book of Deuteronomy. Yikes
Just curious are you reading it from front to back? Or you using a podcast or something like that.
I'm using the Bible in a Year podcast by Ascension Press. It's not exactly front to back but I will read/listen to every word in the Bible!
1
Posted on 2/8/22 at 2:38 pm to catholictigerfan
quote:It has NOTHING to do with our intellectual capacity. It has EVERYTHING to do with the communication capabilities of an omnipotent deity.
I get what you are saying, but in relation to God, we are like your 8 year old granddaughter. Do you expect your 8 year old to understand complicated truths?
As I said in the beginning. I can explain the revelation of God as found in the Old Testament to my 8-year-old granddaughter in under a minute, and she will understand it
Otoh, 2,000 years after the life of Jesus, Christian scholars are still arguing about the person and nature of Jesus. That's one big reason there are over 40,000 Christian denominations.
And when you point this absurdity out to Christians, they are taught to say, "Well who are we to understand the ways of God?"
There's nothing in the Old Testament that mentions that God is 3-in-one, or a Trinity, or that he has a Triune nature. As one rabbi is fond of saying, "Anything true in the New Testament is not new. And anything new in the New Testament is not true."
Posted on 2/8/22 at 2:44 pm to catholictigerfan
quote:Just finished reading through the Torah. I used the Jewish Study Bible: Second Edition, Oxford University Press
Just curious are you reading it from front to back? Or you using a podcast or something like that.
Before that I read through the 4 gospels. I used the NASB, Lockman Foundation Publication
In the last 50 years I've read through the entire Old Testament at least 4 or 5 times. I've read though the entire New Testament at least several dozen times; maybe more than that
Posted on 2/8/22 at 2:48 pm to L.A.
quote:Thank you for the notice but I'm not interpreting your words in that way. We've got a difference in opinion/belief and we're discussing it. Thank you for doing so in a civil and productive way.
I'm not trying to be belligerent. Please know that.
quote:I would like to point out a distinction between creating a doctrine and receiving a doctrine with clarity. All accepted, orthodox doctrine should be taken from the scriptures as a summary (or specifics) of what the Bible actually teaches to be true.
But it is man-made. All the teachings about the Trinity/Triune God/3 persons of the God head stuff took the Church centuries to agree upon. Things that were once believed became heresies later on. The Trinity didn't even become official church doctrine until the Council of Nicaea in 325 AD. Then they had to tweak the doctrine 56 years later at the council of Constantinople in 381 AD, and again at the Council of Ephesus in 431 AD, and again at the Council of Chalcedon in 451 AD, and again at the Third Council of Constantinople in 680 AD.
In this example, the Trinity is a doctrine that is taken from many passages of scripture that discuss the three-in-one nature of God. The issue is not in the communication from God but the reception from man.
When the NT Church was in its infancy and beginning to grow, there was a lot of teaching from the scriptures that needed to be clarified because people would take something said or taught and twist it to their own ends, or simply misunderstand it for themselves. We see this happening today with various controversies and heresies that creep up every now and then, even rehashing old heresies that have been long resolved. Either way, clarification was needed. Paul did this, himself, in his epistles where he would rebuke and correct churches or individuals who were leading people astray or teaching something that was different than what they received from him and the other Apostles.
Most of what was established in terms of written doctrine came about in response to heresies. The various creeds of the early church, for instance, came about to provide clarity in response to various heresies like Gnosticism. We can look at many of those heresies today and think that there isn't any way that someone who has read the Bible could come to such conclusions, yet we have the benefit of being taught from a clarified position as God gave gifted men to the Church to help teach and guide her over time. The Bible provides instructions for election overseers or elders for this very purpose, to teach and correct according to sound doctrine.
So I say all that to say this: if a doctrine faithfully represents a true teaching of scripture, then it is not man-made at all.
quote:I agree with you. I don't think He is, either. I think we're poor at understanding what God communicates to us.
I just don't believe that God is such a poor communicator
Posted on 2/8/22 at 2:56 pm to L.A.
quote:
It has nothing to do with intellectual capacity but everything to do with the communication of our diety
This is your child so I say this out of respect. Just start of by telling her that God loves her and wants the best for her. This is so important at that age. If possible let her start off by knowing this. All people would agree with this simple statement. If my daughter later wanted to know more about this I would explain as best I could the Gospel. You are not going to intellectual bring her to God. I was 17 when I was presented the gospel, I barely knew there was an old and New Testament. The Holy Spirit has guided me into truth, thru His word and thru people. Plenty of loving correction . She will not understand this now but you must be born again to truly know God. Good luck you have a huge responsibility
This post was edited on 2/8/22 at 3:01 pm
Posted on 2/8/22 at 3:08 pm to L.A.
I think of it this way: when you see God you see God. When you see Jesus you see God. When you see the Holy Spirit you see God. Three distinct persons as One working in perfect harmony. It was God in Christ on trial. Who knows the mind of God? Only God, hence the Holy Spirit is God.
We, being made in the image of God means God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit for in doing so we are equipped to receive the Holy Trinity - God as God, God as Savior, God as Comforter. Love the Lord your God with all your......the Trinity manifested itself in creation as well as the book of Deuteronomy.
As for election, God elected to set apart some/others for His work. We see the Hebrews as well as the Patriarchs. We witness same with the apostles and later Saul/Paul. The elect are God's chosen to proclaim the Good News of the Gospel to the non-elect. For God so loved the world that He gave...whoever believeth....therein is the exercise of one's will - which is bond by sin and not free as in Adam and Eve. If election means some are given salvation and others not and will not then why the Great Commission?
We, being made in the image of God means God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit for in doing so we are equipped to receive the Holy Trinity - God as God, God as Savior, God as Comforter. Love the Lord your God with all your......the Trinity manifested itself in creation as well as the book of Deuteronomy.
As for election, God elected to set apart some/others for His work. We see the Hebrews as well as the Patriarchs. We witness same with the apostles and later Saul/Paul. The elect are God's chosen to proclaim the Good News of the Gospel to the non-elect. For God so loved the world that He gave...whoever believeth....therein is the exercise of one's will - which is bond by sin and not free as in Adam and Eve. If election means some are given salvation and others not and will not then why the Great Commission?
Posted on 2/8/22 at 4:31 pm to catholictigerfan
We are discussing a lot so I don't have enough space to respond to everything, but feel free to narrow the discussion down as you see fit. Thanks again for your civility in discussion.
The previous chapter was about faith and remaining faithful to Christ in the face of persecution and false prophets that will rise up and try to deceive the nations. It was about being faithful while waiting for the return of Christ, who is the bridegroom and the master of the house. That led to the parables of the 10 virgins and the talents, which were to show that the faithful must prepare for the return of Christ. This includes how we live our lives and treat others, which culminates in the final judgement passage that we're talking about where the sheep are given an inheritance (not entrance into the kingdom) based on their works.
In addition, as you said, the passage doesn't mention faith at all. Are we to conclude that faith is not necessary at all for salvation, but only good works, since faith in Christ is notably absent? Of course not, so we cannot use this passage to be the definitive text on the matter but must use other scriptures to guide our understanding. The gospel of John is very clear that faith is what grants eternal life.
Secondly, yes, God "wills" that evil should occur. Not in the sense that He desires it, but in the sense that He plans for it to occur. There are an abundance of passages that speak to this, but recall that Christ was sent by the Father with the purpose of being unjustly killed on the cross. The event was planned from eternity past for our good, yet it required evil to occur to make it happen.
quote:Simply put, faith wasn't the focus of that passage, but the result of faith: works that acquire an inheritance.
So you are saying we are not judged by our works. Which Matthew 25 seems to be saying, but instead that people will know we are saved by our fruits...In Matthew 25 there is no mention of faith, no mention of do you believe in God. I’m not saying that it doesn’t matter but if faith is all we need and we are not judged by our works then why would Jesus leave it out of the judgement scene?
The previous chapter was about faith and remaining faithful to Christ in the face of persecution and false prophets that will rise up and try to deceive the nations. It was about being faithful while waiting for the return of Christ, who is the bridegroom and the master of the house. That led to the parables of the 10 virgins and the talents, which were to show that the faithful must prepare for the return of Christ. This includes how we live our lives and treat others, which culminates in the final judgement passage that we're talking about where the sheep are given an inheritance (not entrance into the kingdom) based on their works.
In addition, as you said, the passage doesn't mention faith at all. Are we to conclude that faith is not necessary at all for salvation, but only good works, since faith in Christ is notably absent? Of course not, so we cannot use this passage to be the definitive text on the matter but must use other scriptures to guide our understanding. The gospel of John is very clear that faith is what grants eternal life.
quote:I fully understand that you believe that God's grace is a necessary component to justification. That isn't the part I have a problem with. It's the added works on our part that I have a problem with. Salvation wouldn't be a cooperative event if it were only based on our works. However if God only makes it possible for us to be saved by His grace, then He doesn't actually save anyone. It's why Catholics and Protestant Arminians are often times referred to as semi-pelagians.
God gives us freedom and allows us to cooperate with his grace or reject it. The error you are making with our view is that because we believe in works justification as you call it, you think we believe we can be saved without God’s grace. That is a heresy as I’ve shown called pelagianism. We cannot be saved apart from God’s grace. However, that doesn’t mean we don’t play a part in our own salvation.
quote:Baptism isn't meant to remove our original sin and make us tabula rasa, but to be a sign and seal of the promise of God that we enter into His covenant and are saved by faith. The sign of baptism points us to Christ's sacrifice, not our own (by our works). Yes, we disagree with this, but it would be a different subject altogether. I'll just say that we are not the vine in this particular passage, no matter how connected we may be to Christ by faith.
the only way we are connected to the vine is through baptism. Baptism saves us by God’s grace, but if we sin we can be cut off from the vine and lose our salvation. But I know you disagree with this. It just doesn’t make sense to me how someone can be baptized but not receive sanctifying grace, because they later fall away. I could see how someone is just going through the motions but there are plenty of people who took their own baptisms seriously (excluding infant baptisms which is another topic) but then fall away later.
quote:First, I'll say that I don't believe that we are incapable of choosing evil after being regenerated. While we do have the Spirit at work in us, we also still have our sinful natures. It's why Paul multiple times talks about the spirit and the flesh competing against each other, in a sense.
Let’s assume you are correct that there is no free will in man. We can’t choose the good by ourselves and when we are saved we can’t choose evil. If men are not free to choose the good then does that mean that God willed that man does evil? Does that mean that when Adam was given the choice to be obedient to God’s law about the tree or eat the fruit, that God willed that Adam eat the fruit? What about serious sins people have committed throughout the centuries? Did God will that?
Secondly, yes, God "wills" that evil should occur. Not in the sense that He desires it, but in the sense that He plans for it to occur. There are an abundance of passages that speak to this, but recall that Christ was sent by the Father with the purpose of being unjustly killed on the cross. The event was planned from eternity past for our good, yet it required evil to occur to make it happen.
quote:It's not just man's freedom, but freedom to be sovereign that is at stake. If man is sovereign, then God is not. Recall that the event of the evil performed on Joseph by his brothers was evil that they willfully performed, but Joseph said that God meant it for good. God orchestrated those evil events to save Israel from famine by brining them to Egypt to be saved by Joseph.
God’s sovereignty can allow the freedom of man, he is God all things are possible in God.
quote:God is good and He is just. God's sovereignty does not remove our personal accountability for our sins as we desire to sin and we do so without compulsion. God is not obligated to offer salvation to any one, yet in His mercy, He has chosen some to be a bride for His son.
But speaking of God’s sovereignty if God’s will cannot be resisted or a better way to put it, God’s grace cannot be resisted than it seems that God willed that some are chosen by God to go to hell, eternal punishment, eternal fire, eternal separation from God. So basically God is punishing us because he chooses to punish us. How does that work with God being all good? Or do you reject the perfection of God or the absolute goodness of God?
quote:Paul answers this concern in chapter 9 of Romans. God can do as He pleases, and especially with us who are all rebels and enemies of God prior to His saving us. God owes no man anything except for what He binds Himself to do through covenant. Every sin deserves death, both physical and spiritual, and we all sin and fall short of the glory of God. Therefore God would be just to allow us all to perish in our sins. It's precisely due to that backdrop that the gospel is so merciful and loving. God doesn't delight in the destruction of the wicked, yet wills that they be destroyed to fulfill His purposes.
How can God will that all be saved as St. Paul says, 1 Timothy 2:4, but then will that some be damned to eternal punishment?...God willfully creates men who will be faced with eternal punishment. Why would you follow such a God? A God who creates something just to be punished for all eternity?
Posted on 2/8/22 at 7:35 pm to L.A.
quote:
As I said in the beginning. I can explain the revelation of God as found in the Old Testament to my 8-year-old granddaughter in under a minute, and she will understand it
So can Jesus.
Matthew 6:5-15
When you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.
And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.
“This, then, is how you should pray:
“‘Our Father in heaven,
hallowed be your name,
your kingdom come,
your will be done,
on earth as it is in heaven.
Give us today our daily bread.
And forgive us our debts,
as we also have forgiven our debtors.
And lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from the evil one.’
For if you forgive other people when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.
Matthew 7:12-
So whatever you wish that others would do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets
Matthew 22: 36-40
Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”
‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment.
And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”
Posted on 2/8/22 at 7:37 pm to L.A.
quote:
I just don't believe that God is such a poor communicator
He’s not. He has always been extremely easy to understand and direct in his message.
Love him. Believe in him. Trust in him. Pray to him. Be nice to other people. Forgive other people.
That’s it. That’s what God says. Over and over and over again.
This post was edited on 2/8/22 at 7:40 pm
Posted on 2/8/22 at 7:40 pm to Nguyener
quote:You're not responding to anything I wrote except a quote, and you completely ignored the context of the quote.
I just don't believe that God is such a poor communicator
He’s not. He has always been extremely easy to understand and direct in his message.
Read what I wrote before about the Trinity, church councils ranging over 600 years, etc. I don't feel like typing it all again.
Posted on 2/8/22 at 7:53 pm to L.A.
quote:
You're not responding to anything I wrote except a quote, and you completely ignored the context of the quote.
I read every post of yours and unless I misunderstood you, I agree and was agreeing that the Lord wouldn’t reveal himself in such an unbelievable complicated way. It’s not how he has done it ever.
Every time he reveals himself it’s very easy to understand and very digestible by the normal common man. That’s the entire point of Jesus’s teachings.
Posted on 2/8/22 at 8:08 pm to Nguyener
quote:Ah, Okay. Then yes, we agree.
Every time he reveals himself it’s very easy to understand and very digestible by the normal common man. That’s the entire point of Jesus’s teachings.
And you cited a perfect example. Jesus summarizing all the Law and the Prophets in two easy to understand sentences. Love God with all your heart; love your neighbor as yourself. Such simplicity, and yet such brilliance
Posted on 2/8/22 at 8:12 pm to Nguyener
quote:
He’s not. He has always been extremely easy to understand and direct in his message.
Love him. Believe in him. Trust in him. Pray to him. Be nice to other people. Forgive other people.
That’s it. That’s what God says. Over and over and over again.
I completely misread this post the first time I read it. That's excellent. And once again, it's easy to understand
Posted on 2/8/22 at 8:20 pm to salty1
Because no previous generation has behaves like they are reliving Sodom and Gomorrah.
The way most people behave towards one another and themselves is down right pitiful, and it doesn’t matter what side of the isle you’re on. It’s not political, it’s lack of decency.
The way most people behave towards one another and themselves is down right pitiful, and it doesn’t matter what side of the isle you’re on. It’s not political, it’s lack of decency.
Posted on 2/8/22 at 8:28 pm to Jay Quest
Yep, when the temple is rebuilt and the false prophet units the world, that's when it likely go down.
Posted on 2/8/22 at 9:52 pm to LatinTiger30
Why you can believe the Bible.
Might be the most important 45 minutes yet
Might be the most important 45 minutes yet
This post was edited on 2/8/22 at 9:53 pm
Posted on 2/9/22 at 11:02 am to FooManChoo
quote:All of which goes to my point about the fact that God doesn't lack clarity when He communicates
When the NT Church was in its infancy and beginning to grow, there was a lot of teaching from the scriptures that needed to be clarified because people would take something said or taught and twist it to their own ends, or simply misunderstand it for themselves. We see this happening today with various controversies and heresies that creep up every now and then, even rehashing old heresies that have been long resolved. Either way, clarification was needed. Paul did this, himself, in his epistles where he would rebuke and correct churches or individuals who were leading people astray or teaching something that was different than what they received from him and the other Apostles.
And fwiw, the phenomenon you describe was not limited to the early church. It took the church over 600 years (Third Council of Constantinople in 680 AD) before they even agreed on who and what Jesus was. And the debate is still going on today. That's why there are over 40,000 Christian denominations. There's a business park not too from where I live. Within 60 yards of one another there is a Presbyterian church, a Lutheran church, an Apostolic church, and a Christian Missionary Alliance church. All with their own version of the truth. Within 60 yards of one another! It's equal parts embarrassing and depressing
Posted on 2/9/22 at 5:58 pm to L.A.
quote:When I say clarification is needed, it's not because I believe God wasn't clear. It's because in our sinful natures, we do not understand as well as we should. We interpret words (not just the Bible) based on our presuppositions. Our reading comprehension isn't always great. Sometimes we simply don't understand the context of the writing. Regardless of the reason, clarification is needed because of us, not because of God. I believe in the perspicuity of scripture, meaning that what is essential for us to know is clear enough for everyone to understand.
All of which goes to my point about the fact that God doesn't lack clarity when He communicates
Even a statement like "Jesus is Lord" seems simple, but it needs to be fleshed out because people will naturally ask questions like, "Lord of what or who, and when? Is He Lord of all people, or just the Church? Is He Lord now, or after the resurrection and judgement of all people?"
When someone says that "God is love", we don't always know what that means. The Bible says God disciplines and chastises the son He loves, and that He does so for our good (Heb. 12:6; Rom. 8:28), yet such chastisement (often in the form of trials) is often times interpreted as hatred by God, or God being evil rather than loving. So we have to understand what the Bible means when it says that God is love. It doesn't mean that it's not clear, only that it's not always simple, which is why we need to be students of God's word, studying it often.
quote:This is due to us, not God. And it's not true that Christians by and large didn't agree on who Jesus was. Church councils typically convened to deal with heresies that would crop up, where a minority would teach/believe a falsehood about the Bible that needed to be addressed by the larger Church. Doing so wasn't an admission that the issue at hand was unclear or that no one knew what to believe, but that those things which were taught and believed according to God's Word were coming under attack and those things required a response in the form of a formal doctrinal statement. Sometimes details needed to be clarified simply because they were not considered previously, but it was necessary to clarify to reject a larger false teaching.
And fwiw, the phenomenon you describe was not limited to the early church. It took the church over 600 years (Third Council of Constantinople in 680 AD) before they even agreed on who and what Jesus was. And the debate is still going on today.
quote:When you realize that most denominations vary on secondary issues, it's not as bad as you'd think.
That's why there are over 40,000 Christian denominations. There's a business park not too from where I live. Within 60 yards of one another there is a Presbyterian church, a Lutheran church, an Apostolic church, and a Christian Missionary Alliance church. All with their own version of the truth. Within 60 yards of one another! It's equal parts embarrassing and depressing
Obviously it would be great if sin didn't exist and we could all agree on what the Bible teaches (or how it's applied) in every matter and doctrine. That's what the Church will look like in heaven: complete agreement. But that's not reality for today in our sinful world, because sin does exist and we naturally seek to divide over disagreements. Ironically, it's through the formal division that unity exists, albeit on a smaller scale.
A confession of faith allows people to group together based on shared beliefs. Non-denominational churches actually have a lot of disagreements over doctrine within the congregations because there is usually no requirement to adhere to a single confession of faith (think of the Westminster Confession or the London Baptist Confession). Usually there's a very basic and rudimentary statement of faith with the bare necessities for salvation, and then people are free to believe just about anything else they want from that point. Confessional churches provide greater unity in doctrine because they lay out exactly what they believe about all sorts of things related to the Faith, and the people who attend there know that.
This post was edited on 2/9/22 at 6:01 pm
Posted on 2/10/22 at 8:58 am to FooManChoo
quote:
Thanks again for your civility in discussion.
No problem
quote:
Matthew 25
We've discussed this chapter to death it seems. I don't think you are going to budge from your viewpoint.
Faith is in fact necessary for salvation but God expects us to do good works, that is clear throughout the scriptures. If we don't do good works as Matthew 25 suggests we will be condemned even if we have saving grace.
I guess a way to think about it faith gets you into the club but our good works and God’s grace keeps us in.
quote:
I fully understand that you believe that God's grace is a necessary component to justification. That isn't the part I have a problem with. It's the added works on our part that I have a problem with. Salvation wouldn't be a cooperative event if it were only based on our works. However if God only makes it possible for us to be saved by His grace, then He doesn't actually save anyone. It's why Catholics and Protestant Arminians are often times referred to as semi-pelagians.
We are not semi-pelagians even though you believe we are. I guess the best way to explain it is that God's grace is at play at all times in our works. We can't do good works without the grace of God. We are incapable of doing good works without the grace of God. However, we are still free to choose God or Evil even though we can't choose God without his help. Semi-pelagians say we don't need God's grace to do good works, we just need the spirit to be saved after that we don't need him.
It is a problem that has no easy solution how does God give us the grace to do something but we have the freedom to reject it or accept it. You seem to say that if God gives us grace to do something we cannot reject it, this is where we seem to primarily disagree. Another way to look at it and how it is traditionally thought is how does God know our actions in the future but we somehow still have the freedom to choose those actions.
quote:
Secondly, yes, God "wills" that evil should occur. Not in the sense that He desires it, but in the sense that He plans for it to occur. There are an abundance of passages that speak to this, but recall that Christ was sent by the Father with the purpose of being unjustly killed on the cross. The event was planned from eternity past for our good, yet it required evil to occur to make it happen.
We agree that God passively wills that evil should occur. However, I don't see how that could work if man doesn't have freedom to choose good or evil as you have suggested before. Maybe I'm mistaken in what you said earlier but you seem to believe that we don't have the freedom once we are saved but that God's irrestiable grace makes it impossible for us to sin.
quote:
God is good and He is just. God's sovereignty does not remove our personal accountability for our sins as we desire to sin and we do so without compulsion. God is not obligated to offer salvation to any one, yet in His mercy, He has chosen some to be a bride for His son.
Simple question does God choose those who are saved based on our response to his grace, or does he choose those who are saved without that in mind?
I posit that God knows all possibilities and who will and will not reject his grace. So he gives grace to those who will freely accept it and not to those who will reject it. It's more complicated than that but that is how Man's freedom is held up with a God who is all knowing and powerful.
A note about sovereignty I would argue that God's plan is to allow man's freedom and that allows him to keep sovereignty. Honestly, I need to read up more on this.
quote:
Paul answers this concern in chapter 9 of Romans. God can do as He pleases, and especially with us who are all rebels and enemies of God prior to His saving us. God owes no man anything except for what He binds Himself to do through covenant. Every sin deserves death, both physical and spiritual, and we all sin and fall short of the glory of God. Therefore God would be just to allow us all to perish in our sins. It's precisely due to that backdrop that the gospel is so merciful and loving. God doesn't delight in the destruction of the wicked, yet wills that they be destroyed to fulfill His purposes.
I agree those who are condemned are justly condemned. However my question has not to do with God's justice but when God chooses to condemn or save.
I hold that in God all things are present to him in the same moment. Meaning he experiences our past present and future all as present. With that in mind, he sees how we act and respond to his call, and his grace. Taking that into consideration he chooses those who he will save and those he will condemn. We can't be saved without him, but he allows for our freedom.
Unless I'm mistaken, which I very well could be, it seems that you believe that God makes his choice not based on our response to his grace.
I guess an analogy might help. You are picking players for a draft. I would argue that you make your decision based on how the person plays, his ability, his stats, etc. While it seems to me you choose based on nothing but maybe the players name.
Justice is clearly at work in those who are condemned we don't disagree there. But how is it just for God to choose something without taking into consideration how we act, respond to his grace?
So I repose my question from earlier.
Simple question does God choose those who are saved based on our response to his grace, or does he choose those who are saved without that in mind?
Posted on 2/10/22 at 9:10 am to Nguyener
I have a question.
Why do we forgive others?
So that we may be forgiven?
Or do we forgive one another because we have been forgiven.
Why do we forgive others?
So that we may be forgiven?
Or do we forgive one another because we have been forgiven.
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