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Started By
Message
re: A Message from Kyle Rittenhouse...
Posted on 9/15/20 at 9:54 am to BlackAdam
Posted on 9/15/20 at 9:54 am to BlackAdam
quote:
Is it all that hard when he is on film retreating before he fired the first shot, which occurred after someone else fired a handgun, KR was cornered between parked vehicles, and someone tried to disarm him? Is it hard after he begins to retreat again, but is chased down and attacked by multiple individuals, one of who has a pistol and feigns surrender before attempting to draw it on KR?
That depends on what narrative the jury believes.
If they see him as a well-intentioned teenager (if perhaps a little gung ho) who got in over his head, he walks.
If they seem him as a blood thirsty Rambo just itching for a chance to shoot somebody, he goes down.
That's just the truth. You can argue the "facts" all you want. Narrative is what matters.
0
Posted on 9/15/20 at 9:56 am to FreddieMac
quote:OK, first, the weapon is not "concealed" in any of the photos or video that we have seen. But let's assume that he HAD concealed the weapon at some point during the day. That is a misdemeanor under Wisconsin 941.23(2).quote:It was a concealed weapon
So, I ask again "How was Lefty prohibited from possessing a handgun on the night in question?"
Are you suggesting that law enforcement should arrest him (without issuance of a formal misdemeanor equivalent of an indictment, actually called on "information" in Texas), with no concrete evidence that the weapon was ever "concealed?"
With all due respect, you would be screaming at the top of your lungs, if law enforcement arrested a 2nd Amendment advocate with no affirmative evidence that he ever concealed the weapon, would you not?
Posted on 9/15/20 at 10:07 am to AggieHank86
quote:
Which is EXACTLY what I said in my very first post
Wrong again moron. Your first post said he committed “a murder.” Twice.
quote:
Most seem to be struggling with the concept that the jury will be presented with a two-stage analysis.
No one is struggling with anything except you. You keep trying to shift the discussion into a jury’s interpretation of justified to hide the fact that you don’t know what the definition of murder is.
And you’re failing miserably. As with just about everything else you do.
Posted on 9/15/20 at 10:10 am to Gtmodawg
quote:
cause he is a criminal in Wisconsin. It is a misdemeanor in Wisconsin for a 17 year old to be in possession of a "dangerous weapon" for any reason without adult supervision. If there is adult supervision and the child accidentally or intentionally shoots someone the adult is guilty of a felony. There is no stand you ground law in Wisconsin...if you ain't on your property and it is reasonable that you can retreat you are required to do so. Dude was definitely able to retreat afterwards but brandished the gun threateningly...on video...which is a felony in Wisconsin. Kids mama is also going to go to jail and thank goodness for "common sense". If you start a fight, start getting your arse kicked, pull a gun and shoot the person kicking your arse you are doing a GRAVE disservice to people who truly feel the need to carry a gun and have enough sense to do so without using it after they start a fight they can't finish. Any rational gun owner who knows they have a right to own a gun is disturbed by this kids idiotic actions..
WRONG LEFTIST F4GGOT
THERE IS A PROVISION FOR 16-17 YEAR OLDS TO CARRY LONG BARREL SHOTGUN, AND RIFLES! NO ADULT SUPERVISION REQUIRED! also that is the ENTIRE provision. just long Barrel. see all fire arms are dangerous. just because its a big bad scary black gun doesn't make it anymore dangerous than a fricking flint lock musket (also legal for him to carry)
KYLE IS AN AMERICAN HERO. SORRY YOUR F4GGOT COMMIE COMMRADES GOT MERCED BY A 17 YEAR OLD WHEN ATTACKING HIM
also the felon isn't even allowed to be in a home with any fire arm that isn't owned by another non felon, and locked in a safe. let alone hold one.
This post was edited on 9/15/20 at 10:15 am
Posted on 9/15/20 at 10:12 am to AggieHank86
quote:
Are you suggesting that law enforcement should arrest him (without issuance of a formal misdemeanor equivalent of an indictment, actually called on "information" in Texas), with no concrete evidence that the weapon was ever "concealed?"
So it is your assertion that the person in question made the weapon appear out of thin air? Did the person in question take proper steps to insure the weapon was not concealed. I know in Louisiana I cannot just carry my weapon in a pocket without a permit. I cannot even have it in a hip holster under a jacket during winter, it must be in plain view to be open carry. There is video of that dude all night from multiple angles, you are going to tell me they cannot investigate to answer the question?
Here is what I suggest, lefty should be investigated for his crimes he may have committed that night. Something tells me he is not going to be investigated, but the person that is obviously innocent is being charged with murder and in jail. That is political prosecution.
This post was edited on 9/15/20 at 10:26 am
Posted on 9/15/20 at 10:19 am to Open Your Eyes
quote:Open Your Eyes, we are discussing "justification."quote:Wrong again moron.quote:Which is EXACTLY what I said in my very first post.
Any reasonable person can look at the evidence and conclude that Kyle was justified in his actionsquote:
"That (offense) is ALMOST CERTAINLY justified, and he will ALMOST CERTAINLY not be convicted, but that is a question for the jury."
Look, I used the term "murder," when the term "homicide" would have been more accurate. I have acknowledged that and issued a "mea culpa."
Grow up and move on, son.
Posted on 9/15/20 at 10:27 am to FreddieMac
quote:Of course not.
So it is your assertion that the person in question made the weapon appear out of thin air?
I simply assert that we do not normally arrest people based upon assumptions, especially without a formal investigation and indictment/information. Charges MAY still be in the pipeline.
quote:I agree.
Here is what I suggest, lefty should be investigated for his crimes he may have committed that night.
quote:I won't be waiting for the above-active cast of characters to attack YOU for using the imprecise term "murder."
the person that is obviously innocent is being charged with murder and in jail.
A prosecutor has a lot of discretion, and he is accountable to his constituents. Pragmatically, in that jurisdiction, the DA could "NOT" decline to file charges in this matter. He probably knows that he will lose on the felonies.
quote:To some extent, yes. His constituents would expect charges, and he has the discretion to prosecute them. If he declines to do so, he likely loses his job.
That is political prosecution.
Posted on 9/15/20 at 10:30 am to AggieHank86
quote:
That is political prosecution.
To some extent, yes. His constituents would expect charges, and he has the discretion to prosecute them. If he declines to do so, he likely loses his job.
Then the DA should be subject to criminal charges. Filing charges just to get reelected is not the purpose of the DA's office. Laws need to be passed such that that prosecutors need to pay a penalty (criminal or civil) for doing something of this nature.
Posted on 9/15/20 at 10:33 am to TrueTiger
quote:
if what Kyle Rittenhouse did is not clearly and unmistakably affirmed as self defense, then we have lost the right of self defense
Had he shot the guy who shot at him I would agree. I think he was scared and shot the guy chasing him because of that gunshot not because he was being chased.
Has the guy who shot at him and started the whole thing been arrested?
Posted on 9/15/20 at 10:36 am to AggieHank86
quote:
Open Your Eyes, we are discussing "justification."
No dumbass, you are discussing justification.
Every time someone uses a variant of that word you attempt to revert back to ‘that’s what I said in my first post that everyone is disagreeing with’ when that’s not anyone disagreed with at all.
The disagreement is entirely around your incorrect use of “murder” to attempt to portray rittenhouse in negative manner.
quote:
Look, I used the term "murder," when the term "homicide" would have been more accurate. I have acknowledged that and issued a "mea culpa."
You also dared me to enlighten you, so you could be entertained. I did and you never responded to it. Why is that?
You also attempted to excuse your stupidity as alternate “vernacular” when that is even more incorrect than your original claim.
You also attempted to claim intellectual superiority over us “laypersons” when you don’t even know the definition of murder. Why is that?
quote:
Grow up and move on, son.
Learn the definition of murder, impotent imbecile.
Posted on 9/15/20 at 10:39 am to AggieHank86
quote:
I won't be waiting for the above-active cast of characters to attack YOU for using the imprecise term "murder."
That’s because what he said is 100% accurate you dimwitted hack. Rittenhouse is being charged with murder.
You said he committed “a murder.” Twice.
You just aren’t intelligent enough to understand the differences.
Posted on 9/15/20 at 10:41 am to FreddieMac
quote:No, but it IS the job of the DA to enforce the law in accord with the mores of the residents of his jurisdiction.
Then the DA should be subject to criminal charges. Filing charges just to get reelected is not the purpose of the DA's office.
Look, I would not have filed the charges because I think that the self-defense is pretty obvious, but there is no reasonable way to claim that Kyle did NOT violate Wisconsin 940.01. He killed someone by pointing a firearm at that person's center-mass and pulling the trigger multiple times.
YOU think his actions were justified. I think his actions were justified. But "self-defense" is an affirmative defense, and the burden of proof lies with the defendant. If the citizenry demands that the defendant to meet that burden in a court of law, I think it is the duty of the DA to hold the defendant to that burden.
This post was edited on 9/15/20 at 11:02 am
Posted on 9/15/20 at 10:46 am to JudgeHolden
quote:
If you are suggesting a double standard, saying a black man at a BLM riot would not have been charged or held under identical circumstances, well, I don’t know but I doubt that is right.
For once, the double-standard here isn't black vs white, it's antifa vs non-antifa. It's been played out all over the country.
Posted on 9/15/20 at 10:49 am to Open Your Eyes
quote:No, he is not. He is charged with homicide. I made the same misstatement, and I acknowledged and corrected the imprecise usage.
Rittenhouse is being charged with murder.
quote:Yes, I did. And (again) that language was imprecise. I SHOULD have said that he committed a homicide. Because he DID commit a homicide. He violated Wisconsin 940.01. He "cause(d) the death of another human being with intent to kill that person." There is really no question about that.
You said he committed “a murder.” Twice.
Under the self-defense statute (Wisconsin 939.48), he was "privileged" to commit that offense, but that "privilege" does not alter the fact that he DID commit it. His actions are simply legally-excused. (Again, I initially used the Texas term "justification" rather than "privilege," but the net effect is exactly the same. The violation/offense is excused.)
Hurling pejoratives at me does not alter this analysis, which is 100% correct.
Posted on 9/15/20 at 10:50 am to Gtmodawg
not sure if it's been established in this thread, forgive me if i'm repeating this:
contrary to what every major news outlet is reporting, and contrary to what "everyone knows" is true on social media, it was *not illegal* under WI law for kyle to carry an AR-15 at age 17.
wisconsin gun laws
note that WS 941.28 has to do with sawed off or otherwise modified barrels which do not apply to the AR-15 in question.
contrary to what every major news outlet is reporting, and contrary to what "everyone knows" is true on social media, it was *not illegal* under WI law for kyle to carry an AR-15 at age 17.
wisconsin gun laws
quote:
Open carry of loaded handguns and long guns and knives is permitted without a license for adults over 18, or for minors 16 or older when carrying a long gun that doesn't violate WS 941.28.
note that WS 941.28 has to do with sawed off or otherwise modified barrels which do not apply to the AR-15 in question.
Posted on 9/15/20 at 10:50 am to AggieHank86
I hope you are on retainer
Posted on 9/15/20 at 10:54 am to AggieHank86
quote:
No, but it IS the job of the DA to enforce the law in accord with the mores of the residents of his jurisdiction.
That's funny....I thought the DA's first and only responsibility was to the Constitution, NOT the whims of the Community...hmmmmmm......
Posted on 9/15/20 at 10:56 am to AggieHank86
quote:
I made the same misstatement, and I acknowledged and corrected the imprecise usage.
But you lack the character to admit WHY you used the word "murder".
As with all Lawyers, truth means dick to you....
Even your "mea culpa" is part of your shtick.
Posted on 9/15/20 at 10:57 am to oogabooga68
quote:
That's funny....I thought the DA's first and only responsibility was to the Constitution, NOT the whims of the Community...hmmmmmm......
There you go again thinking logically. I love how easily this dufus aggie condones political prosecution to appease the mob. Aggies, uhgg....
Posted on 9/15/20 at 10:57 am to Djinn
quote:
Had he shot the guy who shot at him I would agree
If someone who has shown nothing but hostility is pursuing you and lunges for your weapon,
any reasonable person would have to assume that their weapon will be used against them if successfully taken.
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