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Posted on 11/20/21 at 9:28 am to SupermanSlim
quote:Zimmerman was on the phone with 911 nearly the entire time. He thought 911 needed more detail so he walked in the direction he'd last seen Martin.
And merely following him was not provocation
This is different.
Posted on 11/20/21 at 9:29 am to WaWaWeeWa
quote:
It’s a pretty cut and dry case. They are guilty.
Arbery did in fact try to disarm one of the red necks. Not sure why that is going by the wayside in this discussion. Not saying they are innocent by any stretch but all angles must be considered.
What culpability does one have when attempting to disarm someone during a citizens arrest? Also was the citizens arrest law on the books when they confronted Arbery? I seem to recall the law changed pretty much immediately afterwards.
Regardless, the white guys could’ve handled it better instead of being vigilantes
Posted on 11/20/21 at 9:35 am to SupermanSlim
quote:
What are your thoughts on this one??
Murder. It's nothing like Kyle's case.
Posted on 11/20/21 at 9:35 am to SupermanSlim
The only stupid people on this blog believe the media about anything. Don’t know what happened until all facts are heard. So don’t preach these guys are guilty because your asses don’t fricking know. They deserve a fair trial. That don’t mean trial by media.
Posted on 11/20/21 at 9:37 am to NC_Tigah
I understand it changes things in your opinion, but there is no legal requirement to be on the phone with 911 when you follow someone. If you remember correctly, the 911 dispatcher told Zimmerman not to follow Martin anymore.
In the Arbery case, the defendant can argue that he felt that serious bodily injury was imminent if he didn’t use deadly force. Many reasonable people in his position would agree, So, something leading up to this point would have to disqualify his self-defense claim. Simply following him does not. Pointing a gun at him and threatening to blow his head off probably does.
In the Arbery case, the defendant can argue that he felt that serious bodily injury was imminent if he didn’t use deadly force. Many reasonable people in his position would agree, So, something leading up to this point would have to disqualify his self-defense claim. Simply following him does not. Pointing a gun at him and threatening to blow his head off probably does.
Posted on 11/20/21 at 9:38 am to SupermanSlim
quote:
Pointing a gun at him and threatening to blow his head off probably does.
Why are you ignoring that the defendant has already testified to doing just this exactly?
Posted on 11/20/21 at 9:39 am to SupermanSlim
quote:
So, something leading up to this point would have to disqualify his self-defense claim. Simply following him does not. Pointing a gun at him and threatening to blow his head off probably does.
Hitting him with a car probably does. They did point their guns at Arbery and they did hit him with their vehicle. Based on that, I disqualify their self-defense claim.
Posted on 11/20/21 at 9:48 am to SupermanSlim
quote:That was not the issue. You were comparing two dissimilar cases.
I understand it changes things in your opinion, but there is no legal requirement to be on the phone with 911 when you follow someone.
I'm also surprised two things were not brought up at trial, at least not that I know of. (1) On the final shot, McMicheal appeared to deliberately maneuver the shotgun upward at the chest. (2) After that shot, as Arbery trotted a few more steps away, McMicheal turned and coldly walked back to his truck. When Arbery collapsed, McMicheal had already turned and was walking away.
Insofar as juries are impressionable, the impression I took was McMicheal couldn't have cared less about the man he'd just killed.
Posted on 11/20/21 at 10:01 am to SupermanSlim
the media said he was just a jogger. that set the tone for what is happening now.
anyone with a brain knows arbery was a career criminal and he never jogged a day in his life.
he was inside that house numerous times during the day and at night.
stuff had been stolen from the house.
he was confronted once and managed to escape.
he was confronted a second time. he ran again. then he attacked a man holdiing a loaded shotgun after they had asked him to stop.
my thoughts, f--- arbery.
anyone with a brain knows arbery was a career criminal and he never jogged a day in his life.
he was inside that house numerous times during the day and at night.
stuff had been stolen from the house.
he was confronted once and managed to escape.
he was confronted a second time. he ran again. then he attacked a man holdiing a loaded shotgun after they had asked him to stop.
my thoughts, f--- arbery.
Posted on 11/20/21 at 10:06 am to Dawgfanman
I haven’t watched the trial or his testimony. Also wasn’t aware they hit him with a vehicle. Taking these things into consideration, he probably doesn’t have a valid self/defense claim
Posted on 11/20/21 at 10:11 am to SupermanSlim
quote:
Think back on the Trayvon Martin case. The shooter followed him (chased him). Trayvon attacked him. The jury was convinced that the defendant acted in self defense. And merely following him was not provocation. You have a right to follow and observe someone who you believe has committed a crime.
There are 2 HUGE differences.
Zimmerman wasn't chasing down Trayvon Martin.
Zimmerman didn't have his gun drawn, used to threaten Trayvon Martin.
Those acts makes you the aggressor, which the McMichaels will almost assuredly be found to be.
quote:
So it comes down to who started the violence.
The people chasing down a lone individual in a truck with weapons drawn. Clear-cut.
Posted on 11/20/21 at 10:12 am to idlewatcher
quote:
What culpability does one have when attempting to disarm someone during a citizens arrest?
It has to be a legal citizen's arrest, which this almost assuredly was not.
quote:
Arbery did in fact try to disarm one of the red necks.
Self defense against people committing a violent felony against him.
He would have been justified shooting any armed person if he had gotten control of that shotgun and possibly the person he disarmed (not exactly sure about GA law). That's classic self defense.
Posted on 11/20/21 at 10:15 am to SupermanSlim
quote:
In the Arbery case, the defendant can argue that he felt that serious bodily injury was imminent if he didn’t use deadly force.
You mean the people in the car?
You mean the only people acting aggressively?
THEY are the ones who can claim that AA, the one being chased who had no weapons and who was trying to avoid a confrontation, was a threat for SBI committed upon them?
How?
quote:
Simply following him does not.
Attempting to falsely imprison someone is not "following" them.
Committing aggravated assault on someone is not "following" them.
This post was edited on 11/20/21 at 10:16 am
Posted on 11/20/21 at 10:17 am to WaWaWeeWa
Yeah they are guilty, should’ve let the police handle this one…..Arbery was probably up to no good but that wasn’t for them to decide……they were out of line and will pay dearly for it.
Posted on 11/20/21 at 10:28 am to SupermanSlim
My take:
The deceased party was not a saint just out for an evening jog as the media tries to depict him with old grade school photos. He was a crackhead and fuiled his addictions with acts of petty crime.
This above has been factually substantiated and vetted 100%
You can’t shoot the neighbors cat for crossing your yard and you can’t play pretend police when you feel like it.
These guys are guilty of conspiracy, manslaughter and probably more at best.
They could have just called 911 took a phone picture of him and let it go.
Bad choices all the way around by all involved.
The deceased party was not a saint just out for an evening jog as the media tries to depict him with old grade school photos. He was a crackhead and fuiled his addictions with acts of petty crime.
This above has been factually substantiated and vetted 100%
You can’t shoot the neighbors cat for crossing your yard and you can’t play pretend police when you feel like it.
These guys are guilty of conspiracy, manslaughter and probably more at best.
They could have just called 911 took a phone picture of him and let it go.
Bad choices all the way around by all involved.
Posted on 11/20/21 at 10:39 am to SupermanSlim
Lock em up for life. They murdered that guy. Not a huge fan of citizen arrests 99% of the time anyways. Aside from killing Arbery, these two guys were dumb as hell and had no business trying to arrest anyone for anything.
Posted on 11/20/21 at 10:41 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
You mean the people in the car? You mean the only people acting aggressively? THEY are the ones who can claim that AA, the one being chased who had no weapons and who was trying to avoid a confrontation, was a threat for SBI committed upon them? How?
I mean the defendant who was standing in front of his truck when Arbery ran around the truck, ran up to him, grabbed his shotgun, and punched him repeatedly.
Did you watch the video??
My comments on a possible self defense claim according to the video. And the video alone shows a possible self-defense claim.
I understand that there are some facts that have been brought into evidence that are not in the video.
Here is the video link again. Watch it. LINK
Posted on 11/20/21 at 10:41 am to SupermanSlim
You see the son in front of the truck and shoots Arbery within a split second of Arbery running in front of it. Then you see Arbery fighting over the gun.
People are going to make the argument that Arbery was hunted down and murdered, others will say it was a citizen's arrest gone bad.
I know Georgia fixed their citizen's arrest law after the Arbery killing. I'm no law expert, but I feel like that trial comes down to if the McMichaels followed the law or not.
I do morally feel the McMichaels used excessive force and are responsible for his death. But laws and morals are not the same thing, and I tend to find the people that rely more on emotions have a hard time understanding why trials go the way they do.
People are going to make the argument that Arbery was hunted down and murdered, others will say it was a citizen's arrest gone bad.
I know Georgia fixed their citizen's arrest law after the Arbery killing. I'm no law expert, but I feel like that trial comes down to if the McMichaels followed the law or not.
I do morally feel the McMichaels used excessive force and are responsible for his death. But laws and morals are not the same thing, and I tend to find the people that rely more on emotions have a hard time understanding why trials go the way they do.
Posted on 11/20/21 at 10:45 am to LSU Grad Alabama Fan
quote:
You see the son in front of the truck and shoots Arbery within a split second of Arbery running in front of it. Then you see Arbery fighting over the gun
No. The video doesn’t show him shoot Arbery as soon as he runs in front of the truck. That is false.
The video shows Arbery run behind the back of the truck and toward the front of the truck. Then the video turns and they are out of view. When they come back into view you hear a shot and see the defendant being pushed backward while he and Arbery both have hands on the shotgun.
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