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re: Cool Video Describing Ancient Christian Liturgy
Posted on 4/23/25 at 1:44 pm to Richleau
Posted on 4/23/25 at 1:44 pm to Richleau
quote:
Where in the Bible does it mention popes, bishops, cardinals or any of the man made traditions that Catholics dedicate their lives to? Where does it mention nunneries, shutting themselves off from the world, etc? Please understand that you are the same Pharisees Jesus rebelled against who value rules and tradition over the nature of the Word.
This is utter nonsense. First, the idea of priests existed since the time of Moses and is clearly in the Bible. Bishops, Cardinals, and the pope, are nothing more than priests of various ranks and responsibilities.
Second, you liken me to a Pharisee, and that is ridiculous, Tradition does not get you close to heaven, it is just things that men came up with long ago. The Word of God and your belief in that gets you to salvation. Traditions are not rules given by God.
I am assuming that you are a Protestant that has some sort of issue with the Catholic Church, but don’t assume that you know anything about the church prior to researching it.
1
Posted on 4/23/25 at 1:55 pm to Champagne
quote:
they are more comfortable to give free rein to their natural and deep-seated prejudice and hatred
There does seem to be an awful lot of hate in religious threads on this board - ironically enough.
Posted on 4/23/25 at 2:20 pm to SkiUtah420
the translation of the bible into english was a political event not a divinely inspired one. as soon as they did protestants found a whole bunch of crazy stuff in that book. growing up in little rock catholic it's very insulated lots of big families, mine being one of them, my wife's being one of them, parochial schools, catholic high for boy's, st. mary's for girls.
so i find myself at ouachita baptist university my freshman and i'm hearing all kinds of crazy stuff that i'd never heard before, the rapture, jesus had brothers and sisters, mary and joseph had sex.
i'm sure people will reply with that's in the bible. maybe, but it wasn't in the bible for the first 1600 years.
so i find myself at ouachita baptist university my freshman and i'm hearing all kinds of crazy stuff that i'd never heard before, the rapture, jesus had brothers and sisters, mary and joseph had sex.
i'm sure people will reply with that's in the bible. maybe, but it wasn't in the bible for the first 1600 years.
Posted on 4/23/25 at 2:21 pm to SkiUtah420
Thats interesting. Since the early Christians (ya know those services in the first 100 years of Christianity) practiced worship in a non-liturgical form
First, there were no ornate leaders (priests). In fact, they dressed as common man because they did not want the attention of elaborate dress like the sadducees and pharisees that delivered Christ to be killed
Second, they moved the worship day from the Saturday Sabbath, to Sunday, the day of resurrection. And always met in homes, not some elaborate, ornate building
Thirdly, baptisms, reading of letters from or actual instruction from the apostles, congregational singing of psalms, and reading from the law were always included. As was a meal consisting of items listed in the Last Supper
Lastly, the actual service was not laid out in a detailed order, as has become the Catholic liturgy. All members were expected to participate
quote:
In Christianity, a distinction is made between "liturgical" and "non-liturgical" churches based on how elaborate or formal the worship; in this usage, churches whose services are unscripted or improvised are called "non-liturgical".
First, there were no ornate leaders (priests). In fact, they dressed as common man because they did not want the attention of elaborate dress like the sadducees and pharisees that delivered Christ to be killed
Second, they moved the worship day from the Saturday Sabbath, to Sunday, the day of resurrection. And always met in homes, not some elaborate, ornate building
Thirdly, baptisms, reading of letters from or actual instruction from the apostles, congregational singing of psalms, and reading from the law were always included. As was a meal consisting of items listed in the Last Supper
Lastly, the actual service was not laid out in a detailed order, as has become the Catholic liturgy. All members were expected to participate
quote:
When you assemble, each one has a psalm, has a teaching, has a revelation, has a tongue, has an interpretation. Let all things be done for edification. - St. Paul
Posted on 4/23/25 at 2:21 pm to BornAgain
quote:
Catholicism is a tragedy. Jesus saves!!
Well, Jesus Himself, started Catholicism, so…..
Not sure how you can reconcile your statement to the Truth.
Posted on 4/23/25 at 2:24 pm to Furious
quote:We Orthodox would like a word with you.
Well, Jesus Himself, started Catholicism, so
Posted on 4/23/25 at 2:30 pm to mudshuvl05
quote:
We Orthodox would like a word with you.
St Peter was the first pope of the Catholic Church. The orthodox split from the Catholic Church well after the formation of the Catholic Church.
While orthodox aren’t labeled as Protestants, it is in some ways similar to the Protestants leaving the church.
This is not to say that orthodox aren’t Christian’s or they can’t go to heaven, it just is factual truth.
Posted on 4/23/25 at 2:32 pm to Furious
Who gave them those ranks? Man or God? You do realize the Pharisees were exactly the same “ranked” priests that Jesus rebelled, right? Tell me, Jesus was the son of a carpenter. What was his church? Where did he build it? Did he shut himself off from the world or did he walk through it regardless of consequence?
Jesus started Catholicism? Are you kidding me?
Jesus started Catholicism? Are you kidding me?
This post was edited on 4/23/25 at 2:36 pm
Posted on 4/23/25 at 2:57 pm to Furious
quote:
St Peter was the first pope of the Catholic Church.
uh, about that
St Peter never knew he was the first pope. In fact, he himself voted for Jesus' brother (James) to lead the very first Church at Jerusalem
quote:
Clement of Alexandria related, "This James, whom the people of old called the Just because of his outstanding virtue, was the first, as the record tells us, to be elected to the episcopal throne of the Jerusalem church.
quote:
After Pentecost James quickly rose to the position of the leader of the both the Jerusalem church and of the entire Jesus movement.
Gal. 2:9 - Paul did what James requested that he do
Acts 12.17 - But motioning to them with his hand to be silent, he [Peter] described to them how the Lord had brought him out of the prison. And he said, Tell these things to James
Posted on 4/23/25 at 2:57 pm to SkiUtah420
All of a sudden the Latin Mass became bad after centuries of use.
Posted on 4/23/25 at 2:58 pm to SkiUtah420
How old was Judaism when Jesus was born and flipped it upside down? He was quite clear on mistakingly valuing tradition over loving God and your neighbors. I’m not saying you can’t have or do both, but boasting is not the way either. I believe He’s working ALL things TOGETHER for good. I believe if you are seeking and loving God and your neighbor as yourself, you have a place in Christianity
Posted on 4/23/25 at 3:05 pm to Furious
quote:It never ceases to amaze me at how little Catholics know about Orthodoxy — almost as bad as protestants. The overwhelming majority know next to nothing about the Apostolic church.
The orthodox split from the Catholic Church well after the formation of the Catholic Church.
You don't have the slightest clue as what you are talking about. The one, true, unchanged Apostolic church from the day of Pentecost are the Orthodox. We never left any church, Rome left the church, and it was to its own detriment as far as theology goes: It's why you have the Catholic church doing things like flying rainbow flags in Germany, to the papacy saying all religions will lead you to God— it's nonsense, and the exploding number of Catholic converts that pretty much every Orthodox parish is experiencing is testament to that.
You know that saying that says something along the lines of, "if it's everyone else who has the problem, maybe you should look into the mirror"? That applies to the original 5 patriarchates and Rome. We never left, Rome did.
Far before Roman Catholicism stood alone, the ecumenical council consisted of the 5 patriarchates known as the Pentarchy. Four are still Orthodox: Constantinople, Alexandria, Antioch, and Jerusalem. Since Romes heretical filioque and Papal primacy nonsense that cause the great schism, Constantinople is now primus inter pares, since there has to be a primus inter pares to act as a moderator. Originally, Rome was chosen, and by no means did that mean Rome had any special power over the others— it was simply the moderator of the Pentarchy. It most certainly had no power to change the creed and appoint one bishop and supreme leader over all others. I'm sure they never thought 1000 years later they'd have purple haired atheists and globalists giving their input on who they want to be supreme leader of your church, but here we are. It's a fallacy at best, a heresy at worst.
Since Rome took primus inter pares to the extreme and committed the filioque heresy and came up with papal primacy out of thin air, there was a mutual Excommunication between Rome and the other original Apostolic churches, i.e., the great schism.
quote:Your knowledge of the Apostolic church history is anything but factual. On a scale of 1-10, you're at about a 1 on knowing what in the hell you are talking about. Get your head out of the Catholic echo chambers where it resides and you'll soon learn that the 4 Orthodox patriarchates left nothing — we are as we were 2000 years ago.
This is not to say that orthodox aren’t Christian’s or they can’t go to heaven, it just is factual truth.
Posted on 4/23/25 at 3:06 pm to Furious
quote:
You are someone that lacks understanding of the one true Catholic church. Priests being unmarried and celibate is not a mandate handed down by God, nor is it in the gospels. It is simply church tradition. The pope can at anytime change this and it would not undermine sacred scripture in anyway. Tradition in the Catholic Church can be changed. The Word of God can’t be changed, and that is what the video shows in the testimony of Justin Martyr.
The first Pope of the Catholic Church, St. Peter, was married as well.
The scripture quoted above pretty clearly states that being successful at running a family is the a pre-requisite but you are saying since it is a church tradition that requirement can be ignored?
Posted on 4/23/25 at 3:10 pm to Speckhunter2012
quote:
I agree. But before casting stones, how much is the Catholic Church worth?
Do immigrants get to go to the Vatican and claim asylum?
Glass houses and stuff.
Dont get mad.
I think its brilliant what they do. Most of the hierarchy doesnt spend they just get paid and most of their travel and housing is already covered. Many priests etc. can become millionaires and youd never know it. THe thing is when they die they just leave their money to the church.
That consistently takes cash off the streets as they dont buy much.
Posted on 4/23/25 at 3:10 pm to Harry Boutte
quote:
There does seem to be an awful lot of hate in religious threads on this board - ironically enough.
Because the branch offs dont give credit where credit is due and instead fight their creator.
They all fall under the Vatican at the end of the day and they know it. If they were ever to get into a pickle, the Catholics would be the hand that feeds.
This post was edited on 4/23/25 at 3:12 pm
Posted on 4/23/25 at 3:16 pm to Speckhunter2012
quote:
I agree. But before casting stones, how much is the Catholic Church worth?
Do immigrants get to go to the Vatican and claim asylum?
Glass houses and stuff.
The fact of the matter is there is Truth and there is not Truth.
The Catholic Church has it and the rest do not have it, or have modified and watered it down to make it palatable to the average person who wants to have their cake and eat it too. Watered down Truth is "Not Truth."
Posted on 4/23/25 at 3:17 pm to Champagne
With you, I thought Chicken and his hamsters strongly dissuade religious discussions in this forum.
Posted on 4/23/25 at 3:18 pm to SkiUtah420
quote:
Last time I check there was no Fog Machine in the upper room when the 12 received the Holy Spirit on Pentacost.
Nor was there electricity or central heating and air.
Posted on 4/23/25 at 3:36 pm to jizzle6609
quote:Again, nonsense from a know-nothing Catholic in your echo chamber. Constantinople, Alexandria, Antioch, and Jerusalem do not "fall" under the Vatican in any shape, form or fashion, and certainly no pope with imagined supremecy and an affinity for lgbtq perversions and universalism.
They all fall under the Vatican at the end of the day
We settled that misunderstanding on Rome's part one thousand years ago. The Orthodox church stands alone and on its own from the day of Pentecost.
Posted on 4/23/25 at 3:36 pm to jizzle6609
(no message)
This post was edited on 4/23/25 at 3:38 pm
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