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Message
re: Dispensationalism is a Heresy
Posted on 8/24/25 at 7:08 am to prattalumni
Posted on 8/24/25 at 7:08 am to prattalumni
quote:
otherwise we could all just do what we want and claim salvation anyway
Many Christians believe this - that all that is required is they must believe in Jesus and accept him as Lord and Savior - that’s it.
quote:
"Not everyone who says unto me Lord, Lord shall enter the kingdom, but only those who DO the will of my Father." Also John 14:15 "If you love me, keep my commandments (Torah)"
Many of those people I mentioned do not know these verses. Some, like Foo, do know these verses and ignore or reject them.
quote:
I don't know how I tried to get around these verses in the traditional church
It wasn’t really your fault. You didn’t know any better and had been conditioned through years of preaching. But after someone studies the Bible and realizes verses like this exist, they can no longer be ignored if you want to be saved.
3
Posted on 8/24/25 at 8:00 am to wackatimesthree
quote:
I'm aware of no evidence that they didn't and lots of evidence that they did.
It’s the opposite actually.
Posted on 8/24/25 at 9:17 am to Mo Jeaux
quote:
It’s the opposite actually.
Only it's not.
Go ahead.
Post your evidence.
Then I'll post mine.
Posted on 8/24/25 at 9:44 am to Harald Ekernson
Harald, can you tell us what all of these verses really mean? And don't come back with some obscure verse that you think says something different. Focus here and tell us how these mean something other than believing in Jesus for everlasting life.
John 3:15–16
“That whoever believes in him may have eternal life.”
“For God so loved the world… that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.”
ohn 5:24
“Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.”
John 6:40
“For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”
John 6:47
“Truly, truly, I tell you, he who believes has eternal life.”
John 11:25–26
“I am the resurrection and the life. Whoever believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live; and everyone who lives and believes in me shall never die.”
John 20:31
“…that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.”
1 Timothy 1:16
“But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me… Christ Jesus might display his immense patience as an example for those who would believe in him and receive eternal life.”
1 John 5:11–13
“And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life.
I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.”
Ephesians 1:13
“In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit.”
Acts 16:31
“Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved…”
Romans 10:9–10
“…if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”
omans 4:5–6
“The one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness.”
Romans 3:22
“This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile.”
Acts 13:38–39
“Through this man [Jesus] is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins: And by him all that believe are justified from all things from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.”
Acts 10:43 – “Everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.”
John 3:15–16
“That whoever believes in him may have eternal life.”
“For God so loved the world… that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.”
ohn 5:24
“Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.”
John 6:40
“For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”
John 6:47
“Truly, truly, I tell you, he who believes has eternal life.”
John 11:25–26
“I am the resurrection and the life. Whoever believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live; and everyone who lives and believes in me shall never die.”
John 20:31
“…that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.”
1 Timothy 1:16
“But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me… Christ Jesus might display his immense patience as an example for those who would believe in him and receive eternal life.”
1 John 5:11–13
“And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life.
I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.”
Ephesians 1:13
“In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit.”
Acts 16:31
“Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved…”
Romans 10:9–10
“…if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”
omans 4:5–6
“The one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness.”
Romans 3:22
“This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile.”
Acts 13:38–39
“Through this man [Jesus] is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins: And by him all that believe are justified from all things from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.”
Acts 10:43 – “Everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.”
This post was edited on 8/24/25 at 9:45 am
Posted on 8/24/25 at 9:47 am to Harald Ekernson
And here is a bonus for you.
John 6:38–40
“For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me.
And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day.
For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”
quote:
"Not everyone who says unto me Lord, Lord shall enter the kingdom, but only those who DO the will of my Father." Also John 14:15 "If you love me, keep my commandments (Torah)"
John 6:38–40
“For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me.
And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day.
For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”
This post was edited on 8/24/25 at 10:10 am
Posted on 8/24/25 at 12:07 pm to Harald Ekernson
Hey Squirrelmeister- my Roman Catholic atheist friend! Still pretending to be someone else, I see. Makes sense. Anyway, let’s deal with your (intentional) false teaching.
I wonder where they get that idea from?
Romans 10:9
that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
Paul’s word not good enough for you? (I know how you feel about Paul) How about straight from the mouth of Jesus?
Matthew 10:32 “Therefore everyone who confesses Me before men, I will also confess him before My Father who is in heaven.
But, you’re right- in that you must repent and believe-
Mk 1:15 and saying, “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel.”
I think that is what you are saying, that many profess to be His, but have not turned away from sin? There’s been no real change? In that regard, I would agree- with the caveat that none of us can see the heart, and the outward appearance may not necessarily reflect the inward struggle. Only God knows.
And what is the will of the Father? In Jesus’s own words-
John 6:40 ESV
For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”
Well, that’s convenient!
That’s a fact- but not a requirement for entry. Grace abounds.
Jn 1:16 For from his fullness we have all received, grace upon grace.
Jn 1:17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.
Ro 4:16 That is why it depends on faith, in order that the promise may rest on grace and be guaranteed to all his offspring— not only to the adherent of the law but also to the one who shares the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all,
Ro 11:6 But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace.
I challenge you to show me one verse that infers that one’s salvation is performance based.
That’s low- even for you!
quote:
Many Christians believe this - that all that is required is they must believe in Jesus and accept him as Lord and Savior - that’s it.
I wonder where they get that idea from?
Romans 10:9
that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
Paul’s word not good enough for you? (I know how you feel about Paul) How about straight from the mouth of Jesus?
Matthew 10:32 “Therefore everyone who confesses Me before men, I will also confess him before My Father who is in heaven.
But, you’re right- in that you must repent and believe-
Mk 1:15 and saying, “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel.”
I think that is what you are saying, that many profess to be His, but have not turned away from sin? There’s been no real change? In that regard, I would agree- with the caveat that none of us can see the heart, and the outward appearance may not necessarily reflect the inward struggle. Only God knows.
quote:
quote: "Not everyone who says unto me Lord, Lord shall enter the kingdom, but only those who DO the will of my Father."
And what is the will of the Father? In Jesus’s own words-
John 6:40 ESV
For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”
Well, that’s convenient!
quote:
Also John 14:15 "If you love me, keep my commandments
That’s a fact- but not a requirement for entry. Grace abounds.
Jn 1:16 For from his fullness we have all received, grace upon grace.
Jn 1:17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.
Ro 4:16 That is why it depends on faith, in order that the promise may rest on grace and be guaranteed to all his offspring— not only to the adherent of the law but also to the one who shares the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all,
Ro 11:6 But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace.
I challenge you to show me one verse that infers that one’s salvation is performance based.
quote:
Some, like Foo, do know these verses and ignore or reject them.
That’s low- even for you!
Posted on 8/24/25 at 12:48 pm to prattalumni
Hey friend- just thought you should know who you’re conversing with in this Harald Ekernson character (literally a character). He’s the recently created alter of Squirrelmeister. He’s an atheist, who attends Catholic Church and sends his children to Catholic school. I’m sure I could dig up some evidence in his post history. Why am I doing this? To expose fraud. He’s a fraud, a failed atheist evangelist who has created this new character in an attempt attack Christianity by pretending to be the strawman Christian that he has always argued against. I just thought you should know that. Do with it what you will.
Posted on 8/24/25 at 2:20 pm to Prodigal Son
Paul told us in Galatians that if anyone preached a gospel other than what they had first received than let that person be accursed. Jude says to earnestly contend for the faith that was once for all delivered to the saints. Works based salvation is a heresy and must be confronted everywhere it pops up. It takes the focus off of Christ and puts the focus on the believer's ability. If someone is trusting in their own good deeds and efforts as a means to get them into heaven then they aren't going.
Posted on 8/24/25 at 2:25 pm to Canon951
Amen!
Posted on 8/24/25 at 2:27 pm to wackatimesthree
quote:
Go ahead.
Post your evidence.
Then I'll post mine.
Nothing?
That's what I thought.
Posted on 8/24/25 at 4:13 pm to Prodigal Son
I think the idea is that Salvation is a free gift but the idea of living in sin while doing so is contrary to what Messiah says is Salvation. I am reminded of this verse..
Luke 13:24 NKJV
[24] “Strive to enter through the narrow gate, for many, I say to you, will seek to enter and will not be able.
And also this..
Philippians 2:12 NKJV
[12] Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;
Not to mention after the Great Tribulation with the parable of sheep and goats:
Matthew 7:22 NKJV
[22] Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ [23] And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’
The word lawlessness is basically Torahlessness. For the Torah is the law.
Again I realize it looks like I'm adding something to salvation, but I read the verses and I think the church just thinks there is no follow through at all. Its very dangerous playing with eternity, I should know as a former calvinist (though not a 5 point calvinist I should add).
There are planty of testimonies of people who checked all the salvation boxes that the church gave them that had death encounters, went to hell, and came back with a HUGE warning. I just dont see the fear of God in anyone anymore. People who call themselves Christians telling family members they can't forgive so-and-so for something, all the while reading a verse that says if we dont forgive others, our heavenly father won't forgive us. My soul is just too expensive to take these chances.
Luke 13:24 NKJV
[24] “Strive to enter through the narrow gate, for many, I say to you, will seek to enter and will not be able.
And also this..
Philippians 2:12 NKJV
[12] Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;
Not to mention after the Great Tribulation with the parable of sheep and goats:
Matthew 7:22 NKJV
[22] Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ [23] And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’
The word lawlessness is basically Torahlessness. For the Torah is the law.
Again I realize it looks like I'm adding something to salvation, but I read the verses and I think the church just thinks there is no follow through at all. Its very dangerous playing with eternity, I should know as a former calvinist (though not a 5 point calvinist I should add).
There are planty of testimonies of people who checked all the salvation boxes that the church gave them that had death encounters, went to hell, and came back with a HUGE warning. I just dont see the fear of God in anyone anymore. People who call themselves Christians telling family members they can't forgive so-and-so for something, all the while reading a verse that says if we dont forgive others, our heavenly father won't forgive us. My soul is just too expensive to take these chances.
Posted on 8/24/25 at 4:22 pm to Canon951
quote:
Harald, can you tell us what all of these verses really mean? And don't come back with some obscure verse that you think says something different.
The devil believes in Jesus.
Sorry many you wasted a bunch of your own energy.
Posted on 8/24/25 at 4:50 pm to Harald Ekernson
quote:
The devil believes in Jesus.
Sorry many you wasted a bunch of your own energy.
So, no?
It's amazing to me that you can look at all of those verses and there are others I'm sure, and basically just say that it means something else. You don't know what you are talking about.
This post was edited on 8/24/25 at 4:59 pm
Posted on 8/24/25 at 4:57 pm to prattalumni
quote:
Luke 13:24 NKJV
[24] “Strive to enter through the narrow gate, for many, I say to you, will seek to enter and will not be able.
Narrow gate is faith alone. That is what is so hard for so many people to grasp. It is solely by faith. We can't add to it. I admit, true conversion results in a changed life. Some people's change is more evident than others. But Paul said "judge nothing before the appointed time." The Lord knows who belongs to him.
It's faith alone in Christ alone. The semantics on this topic are over what it means to believe. If someone truly believes in Christ for eternal/everlasting life and puts their faith in him they are forever secure in him regardless of any external evidence we may see. Sure they know they are a sinner. Sure they know they are going to hell. Sure they know that Jesus is the only one that can save them. No one is debating that. But once they believe they are in his family forever.
Posted on 8/24/25 at 5:10 pm to Canon951
I pray you are correct in that understanding, but Im gonna live my life in Holy fear of the LORD
We both agree faith alone saves, but the warnings in scripture remain. Let us do our work for Him and eagerly wait for his return!
Shalom brother.
We both agree faith alone saves, but the warnings in scripture remain. Let us do our work for Him and eagerly wait for his return!
Shalom brother.
Posted on 8/24/25 at 5:59 pm to wfallstiger
quote:Greece, Egypt, and Poland would like a word, so would many others.
for I believe it is the only nation [geographical] that has been reconstituted in the annals of history.
This post was edited on 8/24/25 at 6:00 pm
Posted on 8/24/25 at 6:22 pm to Canon951
Canon in here cooking with scripture.
Why does someone’s “interpretation” from 350 AD or 900 AD mean anything more than an interpretation from 2025 or 1800. Especially in today’s technology to be able to search the scripture much easier. To look up words in Hebrew Greek and English and see that actual meaning of each word in a Bible verse.
The Bible interprets the Bible. You just have to know how to search the scriptures. Be a Berean and search the scriptures daily. Commanded in the Bible. It doesn’t say form a governmental governing body and follow their pagan Roman traditions.
Just a general question for the Catholics on the board. How many submit to a picture or statue of the Mother and child with the disk type shapes behind their heads? How many have this type of ornament in their Catholic Churches in their houses or wear on their bodies?
Why does someone’s “interpretation” from 350 AD or 900 AD mean anything more than an interpretation from 2025 or 1800. Especially in today’s technology to be able to search the scripture much easier. To look up words in Hebrew Greek and English and see that actual meaning of each word in a Bible verse.
The Bible interprets the Bible. You just have to know how to search the scriptures. Be a Berean and search the scriptures daily. Commanded in the Bible. It doesn’t say form a governmental governing body and follow their pagan Roman traditions.
Just a general question for the Catholics on the board. How many submit to a picture or statue of the Mother and child with the disk type shapes behind their heads? How many have this type of ornament in their Catholic Churches in their houses or wear on their bodies?
Posted on 8/24/25 at 7:12 pm to prattalumni
quote:
Again I realize it looks like I'm adding something to salvation, but I read the verses and I think the church just thinks there is no follow through at all.
No, I agree, actually. I read one of your previous posts, where you seem to understand that “works” are the result of salvation- not the cause.
But, where does the Bible give an exhaustive list of acceptable works? It doesn’t. One man’s sprint equals another’s jog. But Jesus wants all that we have- not just what we’re willing to give. Consider this:
Romans 12:3 New American Standard Bible 1995
3 For through the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think more highly of himself than he ought to think; but to think so as to have sound judgment, as God has allotted to each a measure of faith.
We know that none of us comes to Christ of our own volition- we are called. But, this “measure of faith” indicates that some have more, some less, and yet we’re all on the same team. I like the analogy of a superbowl winning team- everyone on the team gets the same ring. You follow?
quote:
I think the idea is that Salvation is a free gift but the idea of living in sin while doing so is contrary to what Messiah says is Salvation.
This is the key. What is “living in sin?”
I am reminded of
Romans 7:15-20 New American Standard Bible 1995
15 For what I am doing, I do not understand; for I am not practicing what I would like to do, but I am doing the very thing I hate. 16 But if I do the very thing I do not want to do, I agree with the Law, confessing that the Law is good. 17 So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me. 18 For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh; for the willing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not. 19 For the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want. 20 But if I am doing the very thing I do not want, I am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.
Is the Apostle Paul “living in sin?”
Of course not! But he certainly seems to be saying that he is living with it. How much is too much? I think that depends upon the measure of faith that God has allotted. As a matter of scriptural fact, what may be sin to. You may not be to me… Romans 14 deals with this in sufficient detail.
quote:
There are planty of testimonies of people who checked all the salvation boxes that the church gave them that had death encounters, went to hell, and came back with a HUGE warning.
I’d be careful with the NDE phenomena. Jesus said that if you wouldn’t believe Moses and the prophets, you’d not be convinced though one rise from the dead. I don’t see any scriptural support for these NDE’s.
quote:
I just dont see the fear of God in anyone anymore
I’m with you. But neither of us sees all. We see what we are looking for.
quote:
People who call themselves Christians
Careful, brother.
Romans 14:4 NASB 95
4Who are you to judge the servant of another? To his own master he stands or falls; and he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.
Bearing in mind that-
Romans 15:1-2
Now we who are strong (think in measures allotted) ought to bear the weaknesses of those without (allotted by God) strength and not just please ourselves. 2Each of us is to please his neighbor for his good, to his edification.
I cherish these conversations, and I appreciate your sincerity.
Posted on 8/24/25 at 7:27 pm to Prodigal Son
Philippians 1:6 (ESV)
“And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.”
This is my go to verse when I feel like I'm falling short. We are not saved by our works, nor are we kept by our works. God is the author of our salvation and he will finish it. It's all about him.
“And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.”
This is my go to verse when I feel like I'm falling short. We are not saved by our works, nor are we kept by our works. God is the author of our salvation and he will finish it. It's all about him.
Posted on 8/24/25 at 7:32 pm to Canon951
quote:
God is the author of our salvation and he will finish it. It's all about him.
Amen brother. I’m happy to know that…
Romans 9:16 New American Standard Bible 1995
16 So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy
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