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re: Do the Confederate statues coming done peacefully bother you or is ripping down the issue?
Posted on 7/1/20 at 3:13 pm to Covingtontiger77
Posted on 7/1/20 at 3:13 pm to Covingtontiger77
(no message)
This post was edited on 2/7/21 at 12:18 pm
2
Posted on 7/1/20 at 3:14 pm to Covingtontiger77
I don’t think about statues
Posted on 7/1/20 at 3:16 pm to Covingtontiger77
It started as a pandering “look how woke I am” issue with Landrieu. That’s what I had a problem with. Then came the “screw it, we gonna year em down ourselves”. It’s just a microcosm of what’s going on around us and the opening of Pandora’s box. Do it legally and I couldn’t care less. I’m in the same boat as you with the “why do we have secessionist statues?” issue
Posted on 7/1/20 at 3:17 pm to Tiger on the Rag
quote:Exactly.
Taking down the statues does absolutely nothing for race relations.
Besides, the timing of the statue building can be explained in the fact that most were built in one of two waves.
The first were in the late 1800s/early 1900s. The south was impoverished right after the war, and most had to do everything they could to scrape by. Across the south there were hundreds of women's memorial groups that sprang up in virtually every city and town. These were made up of the widows and mothers of fallen Confederate soldiers, and are the true inventors of Memorial Day. Almost as soon as the war was over they began making plans and attempting to raise money for statues/memorials to honor their fallen husbands and sons. Even at that time, it was not cheap to hire a sculptor to design and execute a statue. Donations came in in minuscule amounts - a penny here, a nickle there - anything that could be scraped up. It took 25, 30, 40 years to actually raise the money and commission the work, have it executed and installed.
The second wave came in the late 1950s/early 1960s as the centennial of the war was approaching. Towns wanted to mark the anniversary to remember the citizen soldiers who went off to war and returned as different me, or didn't return at all.
Just because the statues were put up during times of major upheaval and strife, doesn't mean they were erected in response to it. Correlation is not proof of causation.
Posted on 7/1/20 at 3:18 pm to Kennerkarl
Personally, I don’t think they should be in a museum either. The US in the year 2020 has no reason to celebrate anything of the confederacy that split this nation. And it was fought over slavery. Don’t let anyone mislead you.
And I’m a white staunch conservative. FWIW.
And I’m a white staunch conservative. FWIW.
Posted on 7/1/20 at 3:18 pm to OchoDedos
quote:
Don't be obtuse and retarded.
The poster stated that we need to remember history or we are doomed to repeat it.
I’m having trouble seeing my disconnect for asking if a Hitler statue would be ok as a remembrance since some also want remberances of men:
A) were fighting to permanently leave the US and
B) were fighting to keep human beings as slaves
Posted on 7/1/20 at 3:19 pm to OchoDedos
quote:. This is such BS. If u needed a Statue to remember history then they wouldn’t have ever been erected in the first place. All would have been lost between 1865 and whenever they were put up in the 1900s
It bothers me to no end. Run away from History and you're doomed to repeat it. Only the emotionally weak and traumatized would be psychologically damaged by concrete and bronze.
Posted on 7/1/20 at 3:19 pm to Kennerkarl
How many feet have you washed?
Word that starts with c
Word that starts with c
Posted on 7/1/20 at 3:20 pm to sparkinator
You do realize your reason for being ok with those statues coming down is completely different than the BLM’s reasons, right?
Posted on 7/1/20 at 3:20 pm to Covingtontiger77
quote:Thank you for this. It is imminently reasonable and thoughtful.
Personally, I’ve always wondered why there were statues of people that lost an all out war to secede.
I did some research and many of these statues were put up following Reconstruction and the early 1900s with let’s just say- not exactly the purest of intentions. Many were put up to express displeasure with Blacks being freed and more and more rights being bestowed on them. Also they were put up to thumb the nose at the Federal Govt that was pushing the equality message.
Do I think these statues in the year 2020 contribute to AA plight? Hell no. They have been here for decades and I dare say that 99% of the population that sees them on a daily basis even knows who or what the particular person did or stood for.
Now, do I think it’s ridiculous and naive to think that removal will cure the ills of AA? Nope not one bit. They have other issues and this one is superficial to them.
I guess if people want them down it’s fine. But that needs to be done through a process not anarchy and destruction.
What say you?
I’m MAGA as they come and have lived in SE LA my whole life but the statue issue is neither personal nor makes much sense to me.
I agree with you - the "history" that everyone is so worried about being destroyed, ironically, isn't the actual history in question. It's fun and all to pretend like a statue of Lee is just a statue of Lee, but you nailed it in your summary. Same thing with the military bases (almost all named prior to WWI and WWII - explicitly appealing to the south's Lost Cause bias in order to make the draft more palatable.)
If a municipality wants to remove a statue, then let them go through their process and take it down. Who gives a shite? Why do we act like statues and street names are immovable, a priori facts of our existence?
Posted on 7/1/20 at 3:20 pm to Covingtontiger77
It depends on the statue. There is nothing wrong with people wanting to honor their ancestors. During the punitive Reconstruction memorials of the sort were not an option as the South was being punished with poverty.
Posted on 7/1/20 at 3:21 pm to the808bass
Absolutely. I haven’t offered an opinion on BLM.
Posted on 7/1/20 at 3:21 pm to the808bass
quote:That's fine if you are saying it's purely a tactical play not to give up more ground. But that doesn't mean the OP's logic can't be acknowledged as sound.
They’re both issues.
They started with Confederate soldiers because it was the easiest sell.
Now it’s Lincoln. Next it’s Rushmore. Then it’s reparations and the Constitution.
Posted on 7/1/20 at 3:21 pm to OchoDedos
quote:Seems highly unlikely you know much of the history.
Run away from History and you're doomed to repeat it.
Posted on 7/1/20 at 3:21 pm to sparkinator
quote:
celebrate
Having them in a museum doesn’t necessarily make celebratory
Posted on 7/1/20 at 3:21 pm to Covingtontiger77
quote:
Personally, I’ve always wondered why there were statues of people that lost an all out war to secede.
Because the Yankees and scalawags knew they would need all those Confederate veterans to get their asses back on the farm and start producing food again, particularly, and cotton, lumber, etc. They also knew they would need that same manpower in any future war. Or their sons, grandsons, great-grandsons, etc.
So, after Reconstruction, they didn't say much when various memorials to Southern valor were erected - in the Lost Cause mythology, they figured, "What's the harm? We won, they lost. Let them have a few statues."
It was part of the whole, "reconciliation" phase of the post-war era. I mean folks like Beauregard and Forrest, two specific targets of the mob, were quite open about mending fences between former slaveowners and free blacks. Many public speeches about it. Longstreet became a Republican in an effort to patch things up.
All for naught, because they were not perfect, they must have been utterly evil.
quote:
ETA: The removal of all of the others- Lincoln, abolitionists, Grant, and Roosevelt etc is really fricked up.
Either all of it is okay or none of it is.
Humans are imperfect. Imperfection offends me. Tear it all the frick down.
This post was edited on 7/1/20 at 3:23 pm
Posted on 7/1/20 at 3:22 pm to Tiger on the Rag
quote:
Taking down the statues does absolutely nothing for race relations.
This. If you are blaming a statue for your troubles in life or blaming it for keeping you down, you have bigger issues.
You could throw up a statue of Stalin on the Vegas strip and I would walk past it think "that is odd" and go about my day.
Posted on 7/1/20 at 3:24 pm to PJinAtl
quote:This is an awfully happy whitewashing of the "second wave". Towns wanted to thumb their nose at the civil rights movement that was threatening their dominance.
The second wave came in the late 1950s/early 1960s as the centennial of the war was approaching. Towns wanted to mark the anniversary to remember the citizen soldiers who went off to war and returned as different me, or didn't return at all.
Posted on 7/1/20 at 3:24 pm to Covingtontiger77
My main issue is with mobs destroying public and private property. This is a rule of law issue that everyone should have a problem with.
The legitimacy of the statues is another issue that I won’t get into because it’s just my opinion, and frankly it’s not that strong of one.
I do fear that this will progress into trying to erase history.
The legitimacy of the statues is another issue that I won’t get into because it’s just my opinion, and frankly it’s not that strong of one.
I do fear that this will progress into trying to erase history.
Posted on 7/1/20 at 3:25 pm to BlackAdam
quote:The poor south. Where were even poorer blacks during this same awful period for the south?
It depends on the statue. There is nothing wrong with people wanting to honor their ancestors. During the punitive Reconstruction memorials of the sort were not an option as the South was being punished with poverty.
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