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re: Does it matter what the "Founders intentions" were?
Posted on 1/26/14 at 4:49 pm to Patrick O Rly
Posted on 1/26/14 at 4:49 pm to Patrick O Rly
It is pretty ridiculous how we group the founders intentions together like they all agreed on everything.
There were fierce debates, and a lot of them favored strong central government.
There were fierce debates, and a lot of them favored strong central government.
1
Posted on 1/26/14 at 4:49 pm to Sentrius
quote:
The consitution and a republic gov't is only as good as the people who uphold it. It's the responsibility of the citizenry to make sure good and honorable people are tasked with that. In the last 80 years, we have failed that responsibility miserably.
I'd argue that's a failed premise. In my opinion, they're created and controlled by the wealthy who establish a new political class, who work together to protect and expand their wealth.
One of the main motivations behind the creation of the constitution was the desire to coin currency so they could enter into trade agreements with other countries, who were reluctant to enter into 13 separate colonies, each with their own currency. Jefferson and most of the anti-federalist were farmers. From the get go, it was based around competing economic interest.
Posted on 1/26/14 at 4:50 pm to S.E.C. Crazy
quote:
Everything in the constitution speaks to limited central government and states rights supersceefing the central government powers
And you didn't read past the thread title.
How is all that working? Hmm?
Posted on 1/26/14 at 4:54 pm to S.E.C. Crazy
Posted on 1/26/14 at 4:58 pm to Patrick O Rly
quote:
Either they didn't write the Constitution well enough, or maybe old pieces of paper with dead men's signatures on it aren't as powerful as we've been led to believe.
This is coming from a failed anarchist right?
Posted on 1/26/14 at 5:00 pm to SammyTiger
quote:
a lot of them favored strong central government.
No. Very few. There is always going to be dissent but the vast majority of the founders were fearful of strong central govt.
Posted on 1/26/14 at 5:01 pm to goatmilker
quote:
This is coming from a failed anarchist right?
eta: I honestly don't know what that means.
This post was edited on 1/26/14 at 5:04 pm
Posted on 1/26/14 at 5:05 pm to Patrick O Rly
quote:
I'm not sure if they thought it would do better or didn't care.
That is one of the most ignorant statements I've read, and I've read quite a few.
Does the phrase "Our lives, our fortunes, our sacred honor" mean a damn thing to you?
They tried to come up with a better system of government than any nation had ever had. They largely succeeded. What they couldn't foresee is that ignoramuses "educated in the law" would create rights out of thin air.
LC
Posted on 1/26/14 at 5:08 pm to LongueCarabine
quote:
Does the phrase "Our lives, our fortunes, our sacred honor" mean a damn thing to you?
No. I'm not a collectivist.
Posted on 1/26/14 at 5:11 pm to LongueCarabine
quote:
That is one of the most ignorant statements I've read, and I've read quite a few.
Does the phrase "Our lives, our fortunes, our sacred honor" mean a damn thing to you?
They tried to come up with a better system of government than any nation had ever had. They largely succeeded. What they couldn't foresee is that ignoramuses "educated in the law" would create rights out of thin air.
LC
Thank you.
Posted on 1/26/14 at 5:18 pm to Zach
quote:
No. Very few. There is always going to be dissent but the vast majority of the founders were fearful of strong central govt.
Strengthening the Federal government was the whole impetus behind the constitution. John Adams, and Alexander Hamilton are always forgotten when it comes time to talk about what the founding fathers wanted.
Obviously what we have today is beyond what they could have imagined, but you have to judge there views in the parlance of their times. in 1787 the actual logistics of running country from washington DC so different than todays.
Posted on 1/26/14 at 5:31 pm to LongueCarabine
quote:
They tried to come up with a better system of government than any nation had ever had. They largely succeeded. What they couldn't foresee is that ignoramuses "educated in the law" would create rights out of thin air.
Huzzahs!
Posted on 1/26/14 at 5:34 pm to SammyTiger
quote:
Strengthening the Federal government was the whole impetus behind the constitution. John Adams, and Alexander Hamilton are always forgotten when it comes time to talk about what the founding fathers wanted.
No. What the founders envisioned was states rights with a very limited federal binding.
Posted on 1/26/14 at 5:34 pm to Zach
quote:
They tried to come up with a better system of government than any nation had ever had. They largely succeeded. What they couldn't foresee is that ignoramuses "educated in the law" would create rights out of thin air.
Anyone with a basic understanding of how the common law works would foresee that. So the founders probably could have.
Posted on 1/26/14 at 5:39 pm to SammyTiger
True. And having other branches of government set up as checks has proved to be ultimately a failure, and has served in reality as a rubber stamp of legitimacy for its actions.
Posted on 1/26/14 at 5:50 pm to Patrick O Rly
quote:
True. And having other branches of government set up as checks has proved to be ultimately a failure, and has served in reality as a rubber stamp of legitimacy for its actions.
It is a failure of men, not of the instrument nor the government the Founders instituted.
LC
This post was edited on 1/26/14 at 5:52 pm
Posted on 1/26/14 at 5:51 pm to LongueCarabine
quote:
It is a failure of men, not of the instrument.
Nonsense. If men are flawed, then what they create is flawed as well.
Like the saying goes, if men are angels, you don't need government. If men aren't angels, you dare not have one.
P'O
This post was edited on 1/26/14 at 5:53 pm
Posted on 1/26/14 at 5:53 pm to goatmilker
quote:
This is coming from a failed anarchist right?
How does one fail at Anarchy?
Initiating force against someone?
I'm confused by what you are saying.
Posted on 1/26/14 at 5:55 pm to Patrick O Rly
We have the government we deserve.
Posted on 1/26/14 at 5:57 pm to GeauxxxTigers23
quote:
We have the government we deserve.
The maybe 10% of people who are like me don't.
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