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re: I don't grasp how families make it.
Posted on 11/18/19 at 6:48 pm to nugget
Posted on 11/18/19 at 6:48 pm to nugget
quote:
That might make you feel good, but it’s not true. You’re not entitled to have a certain job and be afforded with benefits that are established by the government. If you don’t like it, change something.
My statement is completely correct. The family, not the economy, is the foundation of human life. An economy that makes the creation and prosperity of families nonviable is doomed to die in the long run. We are not disposable widgets to serve an economic machine, we are people who seek to live proper and just lives as our God intends us and to pass on the bountiful gifts of civilization to those who will tend to it after us, just as those who came before us sacrificed to pass those gifts to us. Any economic system which attempts to sever the bonds of family or of God deserves to be destroyed.
How you ensure that the economy serves the family and the nation is an open question. Progressive wealth extraction from functional families to provide for dysfunctional ones doesn't help anybody. So I guess as far as that system is concerned it is really a closed question.
Free markets and minimal taxation have done wonders to allow the flourishing of families throughout America's history, and especially alleviating the tax burdens on middle class families would mean a lot to allow them to rebound from the squeeze that's been placed on them in recent decades. But I cannot stress enough that if that were not true, ideological attachment to one way of doing things is incorrect. That loses sight of the core goal, which is to ensure the perpetuation of a society that provides every man an opportunity to be his best and to leave behind children and a legacy that will carry the torch onward.
3
Posted on 11/18/19 at 6:48 pm to Carl Tuckerson
(no message)
This post was edited on 1/20/20 at 1:11 pm
Posted on 11/18/19 at 6:51 pm to Carl Tuckerson
quote:
My point is that if real wages were rising commensurate with our improvements in standard of living and quality of life--which is what you would expect in a healthy, functioning economy--then you wouldn't be facing a choice between A/C and a third kid, or smartphones and a third kid to use another example. The way this is supposed to work is that a new product comes out that improves quality of life, it starts as a luxury good until we figure out how to create it inexpensively so everyone can enjoy it, and eventually everyone has it as just a fact of life. The families of the 50s that had fans instead of A/C had electricity and the telephone, which previous generations didn't have--yet weren't forced to choose between their kid and those niceties.
My point is the list of niceties is much larger today, and I'd wager a guess that most households have most of that list complete.
Party lines didn't just turn into cellphones as a single trade off. They've turned into cellphones, tablets, laptops and desktops, etc. Antenna isn't just cable, its cable with dvr, Netflix, a DVD player and dozens of DVDs. It's not just 5 board games in the closet, its a PS4 with 3-4 controllers, a headset, and 15 or 20 games.
quote:
I think your earlier post hit on a very important part of it, which is that the middle class, such as it still exists, is getting obliterated by tax burdens to support dysfunctional idiots who would have been kicked out of polite society a while ago. You can't have a family get ahead while it's supporting a bunch of others via heavy handed taxes.
This is a giant part of it, but I also think rampant consumerism and "keeping up with the Jones" attitude play a smaller, but still noteworthy role.
Look at how we're bombarded with ads daily. It's not just TV, its spam emails, billboards along the hwys, banner adds for ANY computer, from desktops to handheld cellphones, we're even constantly being called trying to be sold crap. If Kellogg's could beam commercials into your head while you slept you'd bet your arse they would.
Posted on 11/18/19 at 6:51 pm to Carl Tuckerson
quote:
an economic system is pricing people with reasonable jobs living within their means out of having families with three kids, that system should not exist. The economy exists to serve the family and the nation, not the other way around.
Cool.
Reality and all
You may be right.
But Let’s put it this way, the wife and i were not dying on that hill. 2 and done.
Oh and live within your means.
Not saying these people are doing this but is it reasonable for a household of 5 that makes $80k to have $700+ SUV notes, new iPhones and gadgets, eating out 2-3x a week, cable bill of $150-200 a month, oh and $2,000+ Per month on a mortgage for a house that they put 3% down on that costs $350,000+?
Answer it is no.
Live within your means.
It’s not hard
This post was edited on 11/18/19 at 6:52 pm
Posted on 11/18/19 at 6:53 pm to Carl Tuckerson
quote:
An economy that makes the creation and prosperity of families nonviable is doomed to die in the long run.
This is a long way from the 200 dollar “flu medicine” emergency described above. Who the hell has 3 kids and cries about 200 dollars? It’s irresponsible to not prepare for emergencies, in any economy. Get this family a Dave Ramsey book.
Posted on 11/18/19 at 6:54 pm to 187undercover
Louisiana is a broke dick shite hole
Posted on 11/18/19 at 6:55 pm to Loserman
quote:
My wife and I anecdotally prove your premise wrong We started out poor and had 3 children within our first 5 years We have had 7 total and paid for 4 to go to college, 1 joined the army The other 2 will go to college but are currently in high school We are upper middle class today
Not enough info. If you two were young but had decent jobs or at least decent educations then you were fairly established in that respect, regardless of the money in your bank account.
And even if it did work out for you, if I give the advice to someone that they should focus on an education instead of betting everything on an NFL career, some famous athlete's success at doing just that doesn't mean my advice is wrong. There are always exceptions to the rule.
Posted on 11/18/19 at 6:56 pm to Carl Tuckerson
I don’t see how you can draw an arbitrary line on how much money or what should be “enough”. I would love to further this conversation, I find it very interesting.
Posted on 11/18/19 at 7:05 pm to Carl Tuckerson
(no message)
This post was edited on 1/20/20 at 1:11 pm
Posted on 11/18/19 at 7:08 pm to cahoots
How do families make it? One of two ways:
1. Get into debt up to their eyeballs and fake like they have it altogether.
2. Budget carefully and follow the budget strictly.
1. Get into debt up to their eyeballs and fake like they have it altogether.
2. Budget carefully and follow the budget strictly.
Posted on 11/18/19 at 7:08 pm to Azkiger
quote:
Not enough info. If you two were young but had decent jobs or at least decent educations then you were fairly established in that respect, regardless of the money in your bank account.
We were poor and wife had minimum wage job and I had minimum wage plus 50%
Posted on 11/18/19 at 7:09 pm to 187undercover
I make 80k myself, with 3 kids, and my wife and I are considering her quitting her job because it looks like we can afford it.
And I live in Hoover, AL. No way the cost of living here is lower than there.
And I live in Hoover, AL. No way the cost of living here is lower than there.
Posted on 11/18/19 at 7:09 pm to cahoots
quote:
Also, as I already stated, the family in the OP pays virtually 0 in federal income tax. I mean, you can't get much better than that.
Yea, 80k = 6,600 a month. If you can't budget that I don't know what to say.
Maybe if they're all under 4 and are in daycare, maaaaaybe. But if that's the case they should have spread them out a bit more and that phase will be over quickly.
Posted on 11/18/19 at 7:10 pm to 187undercover
I am childless. Mo money fo me.
STOP BREEDING IF YOU CANT AFFORD IT.
STOP BREEDING IF YOU CANT AFFORD IT.
This post was edited on 11/18/19 at 7:12 pm
Posted on 11/18/19 at 7:10 pm to 187undercover
The specific example you gave doesn’t evoke much sympathy since we have a thing called the flu shot that our country begs for you take for free and spends tons of resources to ensure is available at every corner. $200 bucks is seriously an amazing price to get a first world luxury wonder drug made by heroic advances in antiviral medicine instead of riding it out after being inexcusably negligent.
Also, it is a good to be reminded that most of a teacher’s pay is in the fringe benefits. She may not take home a lot but will get a salary for the rest of her life. Most people in the private sector could only dream of a comparable retirement or any sort of pension at all.
I digress, but most school teachers get into the profession because of the easy hours and would rather be stay at home moms/housewives and spend a lot of time mad that they aren’t.
There is some truth to what you say, but it isn’t trump’s fault and the only reason it is not worse is because of him. When we try to subsidize every turd world invader and continue to deindustrialize, it will only get worse.
Also, it is a good to be reminded that most of a teacher’s pay is in the fringe benefits. She may not take home a lot but will get a salary for the rest of her life. Most people in the private sector could only dream of a comparable retirement or any sort of pension at all.
I digress, but most school teachers get into the profession because of the easy hours and would rather be stay at home moms/housewives and spend a lot of time mad that they aren’t.
There is some truth to what you say, but it isn’t trump’s fault and the only reason it is not worse is because of him. When we try to subsidize every turd world invader and continue to deindustrialize, it will only get worse.
This post was edited on 11/18/19 at 7:12 pm
Posted on 11/18/19 at 7:12 pm to 187undercover
quote:
He works a great job in Sterlington at the plant and she is a teacher.
quote:
Combined income is about 80,000 a year I suppose
Posted on 11/18/19 at 7:15 pm to Loserman
quote:
We were poor and wife had minimum wage job and I had minimum wage plus 50%
Bruh, minimum wage is $7.25 here in Louisiana.
I don't know what time period you grew up in but that's horrible advice today.
$7.25, 40 hours a week = 15,000 a year.
$10.88 (+50%), 40 hours a week = 22,600 a year.
If you make 37,000 a year its not a good idea to have 3 kids. You won't be supporting them, taxpayers will be.
Sorry.
Posted on 11/18/19 at 7:16 pm to Covingtontiger77
quote:
Oh and live within your means.
quote:
Not saying these people are doing this but is it reasonable for a household of 5 that makes $80k to have $700+ SUV notes, new iPhones and gadgets, eating out 2-3x a week, cable bill of $150-200 a month, oh and $2,000+ Per month on a mortgage for a house that they put 3% down on that costs $350,000+?
Stop making sense. People don't like it.
Posted on 11/18/19 at 7:18 pm to Azkiger
quote:
Yea, 80k = 6,600 a month. If you can't budget that I don't know what to say.
It's probably closer to $4700 after taxes and deductions. I could live off of it but I'm reasonably frugal and not very materialistic.
Posted on 11/18/19 at 7:21 pm to roadGator
If they can’t make it on 80K in Sterlington they’re doing something wrong.
If their combined income is 80K than he just has a job.
If their combined income is 80K than he just has a job.
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