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re: If Confederate generals were traitors, so was George Washington
Posted on 7/24/20 at 2:26 pm to BlackAdam
Posted on 7/24/20 at 2:26 pm to BlackAdam
The South never wanted to conquer the North, just be free of its ever growing power and greed.
South Carolina was ready to secede in 1828 after the Tariffs of Abomination were passed. The North had a boom economy due to the tariffs while it produced a devastating depression in the South. This was the beginning of the rift across the economic divide. The South didn't want to be the North's captive market.
It did not go unnoticed that while the federal government was paid for largely by the tariffs the South paid, that money for 5 out of 6 improvements went to the North.
South Carolina was ready to secede in 1828 after the Tariffs of Abomination were passed. The North had a boom economy due to the tariffs while it produced a devastating depression in the South. This was the beginning of the rift across the economic divide. The South didn't want to be the North's captive market.
It did not go unnoticed that while the federal government was paid for largely by the tariffs the South paid, that money for 5 out of 6 improvements went to the North.
0
Posted on 7/24/20 at 2:37 pm to PrivatePublic
quote:Except that's ironically not true for the Civil War.
He was a traitor, but he fought for the winner and winners write history.
Posted on 7/24/20 at 2:48 pm to Landmass
quote:
Slavery was one of many and wasn't the forefront concern for the 80% of confederate soldiers that did not own another human.
Doesn't mean that wasnt the cause for which they fought, as specifically enumerated by the states themselves.
This post was edited on 7/24/20 at 2:50 pm
Posted on 7/24/20 at 2:49 pm to PrivatePublic
quote:
He was a traitor, but he fought for the winner and winners write history.
exactly
Posted on 7/24/20 at 2:51 pm to NfamousPanda
quote:
One fought to liberate themselves from tyranny, the others fought to have the right to own other humans as property. Small difference there.
Except that both groups were the same people.
All thirteen colonies had slaves.
Posted on 7/24/20 at 2:58 pm to NfamousPanda
quote:You do understand your "one" is one and the same, right?
One fought to liberate themselves from tyranny
Posted on 7/24/20 at 2:59 pm to MLCLyons
quote:
How is George Washington a traitor to the US? That's the fricking difference, and I know you're smart enough to know the difference.
He was considered a traitor to King George and the British Empire before and after the US was formed. He was never a traitor to the US. And legally never was Jefferson Davis or any of the other Confederates. It was never taken to court because many if not most people of the day believed a state had a right to secede.
This post was edited on 7/24/20 at 3:04 pm
Posted on 7/24/20 at 3:01 pm to RollTide1987
If there are some pretty big differences.
Mainly Washington won.
When you fight a war against England and end up not as an English colony but the United States, you’re a patriot.
When you fight a war against The US and end up a part of the US, you’re a traitor:
Mainly Washington won.
When you fight a war against England and end up not as an English colony but the United States, you’re a patriot.
When you fight a war against The US and end up a part of the US, you’re a traitor:
Posted on 7/24/20 at 3:05 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
Confederate generals fought for independence from the Union just as George Washington fought for independence from Great Britain.
Yup, and George Washington committed treason against Great Britain.
My guess is, had George lost, they wouldn't have built a bunch of statues all over England and named British elementary schools after him.
Posted on 7/24/20 at 3:07 pm to Steadmans Cheddar
quote:
My guess is, had George lost, they wouldn't have built a bunch of statues all over England and named British elementary schools after him.
But they would have in Virginia.
Posted on 7/24/20 at 3:13 pm to SammyTiger
quote:
When you fight a war against The US and end up a part of the US, you’re a traitor:
Except none of them were ever tried or declared traitors.
Posted on 7/24/20 at 3:13 pm to NfamousPanda
quote:No
One fought to liberate themselves from tyranny, the others fought to have the right to own other humans as property. Small difference there.
Posted on 7/24/20 at 3:14 pm to Loserman
quote:
Except none of them were ever tried or declared traitors.
Are you not a murderer if you don’t get caught?
Posted on 7/24/20 at 3:33 pm to NfamousPanda
There was no consensus in the south to leave the union. Delegates to the so called secession convention were at best 50/50 and slightly pro union from the states of Alabama, Georgia, and Louisiana. Pro union delegates ruled from Tennessee, Virginia and Arkansas. 8 other slave holding states sent pro-union delegates in the majority. But at the convention the wealthy planter families ruled. Paying off and swinging the big stick they held. So it is a fact that roughly 1300 wealthy families took the south out of the union. Bear in mind also this is without the vote of the very poor whites who were left out of the political process on purpose by the slave owning wealthy. And could not vote because of a tax to become a voter and literacy tests. The poor whites owned no slaves and were against slavery since it kept them from share cropping the wealthy planters crops and or working for them. Many of them were worse off than slaves on a subsistence basis since they were not guaranteed 3 meals a day and a roof over their heads.
Had Lincoln been more patient and worked out a compromise instead of raising an army of 75K and invading the worst event in American history very well could have been avoided. Slavery then became secondary and the hysteria of protecting their families and homes from the invaders took over. People were not Americans, they were Virginians. For example Robert E Lee was an American hero and the big shooter in the US Army and was offered command of the Union Army which he declined. Saying he was a Virginian and could never turn his sword against Virginia.
Had Lincoln been more patient and worked out a compromise instead of raising an army of 75K and invading the worst event in American history very well could have been avoided. Slavery then became secondary and the hysteria of protecting their families and homes from the invaders took over. People were not Americans, they were Virginians. For example Robert E Lee was an American hero and the big shooter in the US Army and was offered command of the Union Army which he declined. Saying he was a Virginian and could never turn his sword against Virginia.
Posted on 7/24/20 at 3:40 pm to SammyTiger
quote:
Are you not a murderer if you don’t get caught?
If you murder someone then you are a murderer.
In 1861 if you were loyal to your state and fought for your state; many believed that it could be successfully argued in a court of law that you were not a traitor to the US.
Now anyone can have an opinion. Not every homicide is a murder. You can kill someone and be accused of murder by some and not be a murderer. Was George Lloyd murdered? Was OJ Simpson a murderer? Was Lee Harvey Oswald a murderer? Was Ted Kennedy a murderer?
It’s not always black and white.
Edited my mistake.
This post was edited on 7/24/20 at 3:59 pm
Posted on 7/24/20 at 3:41 pm to jimdog
quote:
Had Lincoln been more patient and worked out a compromise
Or, you know, had confederates been more patient and not fired on Ft. Sumter
Posted on 7/24/20 at 3:44 pm to doubleb
quote:
In 1861 if you were loyal to your state and fought for your state; many believed that it could be successfully argued in a court of law that you were not a traitor to the US.
That’s debatable. But it isn’t because they weren’t convicted.
quote:
Now anyone can have an opinion. Not every homicide is a murder. You can kill someone and be accused of murder by some and not be a murderer. Was George Lloyd murdered? Was Nicole Simpson murdered? Was Lee Harvey Oswald a murderer? Was Ted Kennedy?
I mean Nicole Simpson was murdered. Who murdered her mag be up for debate.
Ted Kennedy died of brain cancer. So it seems extremely unlikely he was murdered.
Posted on 7/24/20 at 3:51 pm to Steadmans Cheddar
quote:My guess is you've never been to Trafalgar Square.
Yup, and George Washington committed treason against Great Britain.
My guess is . . .
In fact, my guess is you don't know WTF Trafalgar Square is . . .
So here's a hint . . . . it's a place in Great Britain
. . . . with a statue of George Washington
Posted on 7/24/20 at 3:54 pm to SammyTiger
quote:
That’s debatable. But it isn’t because they weren’t convicted.
Posted on 7/24/20 at 3:57 pm to SammyTiger
quote:
That’s debatable. But it isn’t because they weren’t convicted.
Only one person was indicted, Davis, and charges were dropped. They were concerned about what a trial would bring. No one else was charged.
You can call anyone a traitor, folks here do it all the time.
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