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Posted on 6/5/19 at 1:39 pm to LSU2ALA
No, that was the question. You answered it by telling us of your current employment situation and your plans for the future.
Posted on 6/5/19 at 1:41 pm to Fat Bastard
There was Judea and Samaria. Neither of which is Isreal.
It literally didn't exist until the stroke of a pen.
It literally didn't exist until the stroke of a pen.
Posted on 6/5/19 at 1:42 pm to LSU2ALA
These posts are always unproductive.
But here is a question for the OP.
If a Non-Christian Steals a car and kills the owner. They stop at a gas Station to get gas and meet a Christian who proselytizes to them and they repent and become a Christian.
Given that the Bible Teaches that they have now become a new creature and past sins are forgiven do they get to keep the car? Should they be free from the murder charge?
Of course not. Because Christians are required to obey the laws of governments unless those laws are contrary to God's law.
But here is a question for the OP.
If a Non-Christian Steals a car and kills the owner. They stop at a gas Station to get gas and meet a Christian who proselytizes to them and they repent and become a Christian.
Given that the Bible Teaches that they have now become a new creature and past sins are forgiven do they get to keep the car? Should they be free from the murder charge?
Of course not. Because Christians are required to obey the laws of governments unless those laws are contrary to God's law.
Posted on 6/5/19 at 1:42 pm to RCDfan1950
quote:
The reward of your Christianity, will be MERIT/based. I.e., "he that seweth sparingly...". If 'Heaven' had an open 'Border', it would cease to be Heaven.
Salvation is not merit based. Paul clearly states in Ephesians that we are saved by faith not works. As far as the heavenly open border, I believe it does. Salvation is offered to all. If you willingly accept it through faith, then you are saved. The exception would be if you believe in a Calvinistic predestination view of salvation which I do not.
Posted on 6/5/19 at 1:45 pm to Wtodd
quote:
The Bible is very firm on this: obey the laws.
Christ is very clear that you should not obey the laws while neglecting "the more important matters of the law--justice, mercy and faithfulness."
Posted on 6/5/19 at 1:47 pm to LSU2ALA
You are definitely headed into some kind of ministry. Although I, for one, would not attend the church where you ministered. The fact that liberation theology is raising its ugly head again is scary.
Posted on 6/5/19 at 1:48 pm to LSU2ALA
The question is whether or not the state has a different responsibility than the civilian. The answer is "yes". The state can put people to death in the name of justice where the civilian can't. The civilian can show love and mercy to others in the name of Christian charity while the state has a responsibility to enforce the law and keep its citizens safe by that enforcement.
We're talking about a difference in roles. Your heart can bleed for the immigrants but it's not immoral for the state to enforce its own laws on the matter.
We're talking about a difference in roles. Your heart can bleed for the immigrants but it's not immoral for the state to enforce its own laws on the matter.
Posted on 6/5/19 at 1:50 pm to RebelExpress38
Rebel, there is a lot of wisdom in what you wrote. I agree we will never fix the entire problem, but I also believe we can't allow the perfect to be the enemy of the good. Let's take care of those we can.
By the way, I haven't heard your idea of sending trained people to help develop these countries, but I really like it. I'm sure some on the left will call it man-splaining, imperialism, etc., but I don't agree even though I'm on the left. I think it would be a good idea to try in places that are open to it.
By the way, I haven't heard your idea of sending trained people to help develop these countries, but I really like it. I'm sure some on the left will call it man-splaining, imperialism, etc., but I don't agree even though I'm on the left. I think it would be a good idea to try in places that are open to it.
Posted on 6/5/19 at 1:53 pm to LSU2ALA
quote:
I don’t agree with this because of the Bible’s exhortation to treat the immigrant well because Israel knew what it was to be a stranger in a strange land. I’m curious how Christians who want to send them back square this in their mind.
Why do you equate "treating them well" with "they have to live in our country and we can't require them to follow our laws?" To me, that's where people get it confused. Treating people well doesn't mean we shouldn't require them to follow the proper channels for immigration into our country. Also, I don't understand how deportation could be seen as not treating someone well. How is deporting someone back to their own country somehow being terrible to them?
Posted on 6/5/19 at 1:53 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
We're talking about a difference in roles. Your heart can bleed for the immigrants but it's not immoral for the state to enforce its own laws on the matter.
He doesn't want to do his charity work himself.
He wants to use the Government's gun to take from others to do his charity work.
If he feels so strongly about illegal immigrants he should sell all he has and give them the proceeds to support themselves in their countries of origin.
Or at the very least sponsor the illegal immigrant in his own home at his expense.
Posted on 6/5/19 at 1:56 pm to conservativewifeymom
quote:
If you are Catholic you may want to look into the priesthood (assuming you're not married). If you're Orthodox, you can do the same even if you are married. Protestant? The ministry sounds like it would be the ticket for you. Good luck and God bless!
Thanks. I'm Methodist. I have thought about ministry, but I don't want to be in a pulpit that much. I mentioned my dad farmed earlier. He was a bivocational minister so he preached at a small country church for almost 30 years while he farmed. That pastor lifestyle is just not where I feel God calling me. Additionally, I'm 41 and married with two kids. I feel the most immediate job I'm called to by God, which is true of all people who are in the same situation, is to be a good husband and father. I don't know if the time and cost of the seminary at this point would allow me to do that.
Also, I have a MBA and have worked in corporate America for 17 years. I really feel those skills are probably needed more by a non-profit doing the work I'm called for then another pastor is needed. I'm trying to be open to God's calling though.
Posted on 6/5/19 at 1:57 pm to LSU2ALA
quote:
gured this would come up as I've heard this before, and I agree it sounds good. The issue I have with it is two fold. First, the ability to rebel was much easier. Not easy by any means for you are correct that it would lead to death for many of them, but the odds were definitely better before we get into a world with tanks, bombers, chemical weapons, and the like. If Britain had those and our forefathers had guns, then it's a completely different story. What I'm getting at is our forefathers, while being out manned did not have to be decisively out gunned in an individual battle.
Secondly, I have a problem with myself and people in our country coasting on the accomplishments of our founding fathers. We are so incredibly blessed to be born here. I had nothing to do with the revolution. I don't feel comfortable saying my forefathers did something and theirs did not so good for me and sucks for them
I agree. And I didnt elaborate on what I meant by Iron and Blood.
For the sake of Mexico, it would require the US to at the least supply the Iron (the weapons and maybe some training). The blood will completely be supplied by the Latin Americans.
It could be argued that had the South seceded (or at that point simply chose not to join the Union) in 1790, they had a much higher chance of defeating the Union.
New technologies were developed during the civil war (especially rifling barrels) that changed the game in the war. And modern day automatic firearms makes pure numbers meaningless for a modern revolution.
Posted on 6/5/19 at 1:59 pm to Roll Tide Ravens
quote:
As a Christian, I do not want to halt immigration. I understand that people often flee other countries for legitimate reasons. I do want, however, a controlled system of immigration. A controlled system of immigration makes things safer for everyone, including those who immigrate here.
That's reasonable, and I don't disagree with you. We need something that is welcoming but controlled. I would ere on the side of letting more in then some others, but that's a reasonable debate to have. I guess I'm thinking of the ones that are here illegally but have assimilated well. I don't see the value in sending them back from an economic, moral, or Christian perspective.
Posted on 6/5/19 at 2:00 pm to LSU2ALA
quote:
Christ is very clear that you should not obey the laws while neglecting "the more important matters of the law--justice, mercy and faithfulness."
You keep using this quote, but you are still missing the point.
What if a needy family just decided to camp out in your front lawn, because it's a nice lawn and they have none?
Will you let them stay, or, better yet, invite them to come inside and stay? My guess is you will call the cops with the swiftness.
Illegal immigration is exactly that in a broader sense. Jesus expects us to obey the law while still remaining faithful to the spirit of the law. It is an INDIVIDUAL command, not a GOVERNMENTAL command.
Obey the law, but do what you can to help those less fortunate. Similarly, if you were to travel, you would be expected to obey the laws there. We should expect the same of those who wish to live here.
If that's too much to ask, then they should not be allowed to stay.
Posted on 6/5/19 at 2:00 pm to the808bass
quote:
Pick one:
A) Open borders
B) Welfare state
Limited resources is a truism.
I'm sorry as I'm not trying to dodge your question, but I believe both of those terms would have to be better defined before we discussed so we are working from a common ground. What do you mean when you use those terms?
Posted on 6/5/19 at 2:01 pm to LSU2ALA
It’s just a matter of accepting reality. Would we do more good just letting people come here and take advantage of our system, or would it be more efficient to spend the same money helping them where they are, where we can help more people and break the cycle?
Also, are the poor people close to the US more worthy of our help than those far away? I say no, and that it’s not “fair” or “just” to only help people who are on our landmass. The world would be better off if we actually showed them how to lift themselves out of poverty in their own communities instead of just throwing money at them. The whole give a man a fish, teach a man to fish idea.
Also, are the poor people close to the US more worthy of our help than those far away? I say no, and that it’s not “fair” or “just” to only help people who are on our landmass. The world would be better off if we actually showed them how to lift themselves out of poverty in their own communities instead of just throwing money at them. The whole give a man a fish, teach a man to fish idea.
Posted on 6/5/19 at 2:01 pm to Kino74
If Jesus Christ returned today, I have no doubt he would be patrolling the southern border with a whip chasing back those illegals and yelling to them that they are not America's problem.
Posted on 6/5/19 at 2:07 pm to Loserman
quote:
If a Non-Christian Steals a car and kills the owner. They stop at a gas Station to get gas and meet a Christian who proselytizes to them and they repent and become a Christian.
Given that the Bible Teaches that they have now become a new creature and past sins are forgiven do they get to keep the car? Should they be free from the murder charge?
Of course not. Because Christians are required to obey the laws of governments unless those laws are contrary to God's law.
Of course they are not free from the murder charge, but I've given examples of why I believe you can make a very reasonable argument that casting out all illegals is contrary to God's law. Your hypothetical makes me think of the scene from O Brother Where Art Thou where the Clooney and the other two guys are on the run from the cops as they have escaped from prison. They come upon a river baptizing as part of a revival and one of them gets baptized. He then states the preacher says all his sins are forgiven to which Clooney replies, "Even if that did put you square with the Lord, the State of Mississippi's a little more hard-nosed." Great movie.
Posted on 6/5/19 at 2:10 pm to conservativewifeymom
quote:
You are definitely headed into some kind of ministry. Although I, for one, would not attend the church where you ministered. The fact that liberation theology is raising its ugly head again is scary.
I would say that I'm not a believer in liberation theology. I am good with Capitalism and competing in the marketplace for companies to succeed; however, I also believe we are to take care of the ones who are suffering, poor, outcast, needy, etc. I just believe that is fidelity to the Gospel and wouldn't describe that as liberation theology.
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