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Posted on 8/8/23 at 9:22 am to rebeloke
It's anecdotal because my area and small sample and whatnot in general, but...
I don't know anyone personally (IRL) who is Ron! first and Trump second. Not one. Everyone I know that has been outspoken about the primaries is on the Trump Train.
That said, I have indeed heard the Ron! chatter, but it is coming from the few Never-Trumpers I know that are basically for anyone other than Trump, no matter the cost. These are the people that were Team Jeb! and still speak highly of Pence and Christie.
ETA: love catching downvotes for just expressing exactly what I'm seeing and experiencing firsthand, because it doesn't fit with a narrative or someone else's differing experiences. Keep em coming!
I don't know anyone personally (IRL) who is Ron! first and Trump second. Not one. Everyone I know that has been outspoken about the primaries is on the Trump Train.
That said, I have indeed heard the Ron! chatter, but it is coming from the few Never-Trumpers I know that are basically for anyone other than Trump, no matter the cost. These are the people that were Team Jeb! and still speak highly of Pence and Christie.
ETA: love catching downvotes for just expressing exactly what I'm seeing and experiencing firsthand, because it doesn't fit with a narrative or someone else's differing experiences. Keep em coming!
This post was edited on 8/8/23 at 11:22 am
Posted on 8/8/23 at 9:32 am to Vacherie Saint
What do you think about Trump suggesting Ron is a child predator?
Posted on 8/8/23 at 9:41 am to roadGator
quote:
I will remind the Trump guys for 12 straight months what they caused. It will be on their shoulders.
They'll just blame us for causing division even though Trump was the one responsible for that. I'll still hold my nose and vote for the dipshit because he's the most mentally sound option vs Biden......which doesn't say much.
Posted on 8/8/23 at 9:42 am to pankReb
Just like Trump, they will never accept responsibility.
Posted on 8/8/23 at 9:52 am to Vacherie Saint
quote:
but some of his supporters on here certainly are.
Oh so Supporters is how we judge someone.
How about 1 Laura Loomer. Trump met with her several times and almost hired her. He has Re-Truthed her on numerous occasions recently, called her a great American and a great journalist. She has:
Directly accused Casey Desantis of faking her cancer
Accused Ron of being sympathetic to child sex traffickers
Said she will CAMPAIGN FOR JOE BIDEN actively if Desantis gets the nomination
Said that she hopes Ron Desantis BURNS IN HELL and stays there for all eternity, and that she isn't being figurative, she means that. She said she wants him to die and burn, and that he is "an enemy".
Posted on 8/8/23 at 9:52 am to OceanMan
quote:
Either you have an acceptable system of controls to mitigate material error, or you don’t.
"Acceptable" is a really squishy term.
quote:
You either care about election integrity (leading to a more acute view of materiality/acceptable error), or you don’t.
Again, caring about election integrity doesn't require demanding really difficult/expensive paths. Many of the MAGA Patriots have literally impossible standards to reach this level of care.
quote:
they either blindly accept that material errors are found, or they reject the evidence and conclude there was no fraud.
Having evidence in the first place makes your comments different than the discussion on election fraud. That's the flaw in this argument.
quote:
The risk of material error due to fraud not being detected is the issue at hand, and it always was.
That is one of the issues at hand. It's a revolving door depending on the conversation.
quote:
That’s not retreating back to a position,
It certainly can be, depending on where you start (like Lin Wood/Mike Lindell positions, which are not what you reference but are what I said and you quoted).
Posted on 8/8/23 at 9:56 am to Flats
quote:
I'm telling ya, once you see the pattern it's hard not to see it. Just watch and see how often people try to claim what others believe instead of just stating what they believe
When your political philosophy rejects core beliefs, other than a few random generalized talking points, and it depends on NPC repetition, this paradigm should be expected.
quote:
I'd wager some spend a lot more time on the former than the latter, which is really weird if you think about it.
Because that's what they have been told to do. Straight up.
The last thing Trump and his sycophants want is their followers thinking about what MAGA really is, and asking questions.
Posted on 8/8/23 at 9:57 am to Vacherie Saint
quote:
Its something entirely different to see a group of voters who claim to want to fix a deeply corrupt authoritarian system, so willing to leverage that corruption to get their guy to the top.
Define "leverage that corruption" with specificity
Posted on 8/8/23 at 10:00 am to pankReb
quote:
They'll just blame us for causing division even though Trump was the one responsible for that.
See:
Posted on 8/8/23 at 10:06 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
See:
That was a 100% unforced error and it cost all of us.
Posted on 8/8/23 at 10:20 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Like, I lived through the War on Terror
The 1960 election between Nixon/Kennedy was absolutely stolen. Historians dont even deny it anymore
But to think in our hyper-tech environment, something like that couldn't happen again is a complete detachment from reality
Posted on 8/8/23 at 10:44 am to Bunk Moreland
quote:I Trump voters care about policy not the cult of personality, they'd agree with that and do something about it. But it's much more entertaining to whine about it for 3 years, apparently.
I can see them being salty about the shot at him on COVID, but this seems reasonable.
Posted on 8/8/23 at 10:45 am to rebeloke
quote:
At this point, the corporate media are basically Ron!’s only supporters
How retarded do you have to be to believe this...?
Posted on 8/8/23 at 10:48 am to pankReb
quote:
Polls = good now.
Is a 50 point lead in the margin of error?
Make it 55-60 because Trump always underpolls because polls suck.
Posted on 8/8/23 at 11:30 am to TigerAxeOK
quote:
ETA: love catching downvotes for just expressing exactly what I'm seeing and experiencing firsthand, because it doesn't fit with a narrative or someone else's differing experiences. Keep em coming!
Very few on this board actually want to discuss anything. You get downvoted if your post isn’t inflammatory
Posted on 8/8/23 at 11:59 am to Flats
Not gonna lie.....I'm not sure what I'm looking at in that pic.
Posted on 8/8/23 at 12:22 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
"Acceptable" is a really squishy term.
In the absence of free discussion or any documented risk assessment, I suppose you are right. Without any agreed upon assessment, we are all left to perform our own
quote:
Again, caring about election integrity doesn't require demanding really difficult/expensive paths. Many of the MAGA Patriots have literally impossible standards to reach this level of care.
Our elections are not auditable. We will continue to have unquantifiable or demonstrable fraud risk until they are. That is not an impossible standard.
quote:
Having evidence in the first place makes your comments different than the discussion on election fraud. That's the flaw in this argument.
No, it does not. The flaw is that both parties in this argument are assessing fraud based on evidence presented, while it should be assessed by the likliehood of fraud occurring and not being detected. The highest fraud risk would not ever produce evidence of the fraud, unless the fraudster actually admitted to it.
quote:
That is one of the issues at hand. It's a revolving door depending on the conversation.
Only to people that look at fraud in terms of evidence, and not from a standpoint of undetected risk (which is the standard). Which is my point, the conversation may be a revolving door when it spirals into the evidence available, who presented it, who sees it, etc. But at the end of the day, there is a significant portion of the electorate that does not rely on the voting results.
quote:
It certainly can be, depending on where you start (like Lin Wood/Mike Lindell positions, which are not what you reference but are what I said and you quoted).
But again, this is the fallacy. The biggest risk when discussing fraud is that it will not be caught. Looking directly to the evidence first to determine if there is fraud is therefore inappropriate. If you are skeptical, you should look to the evidence, and decide from there if it’s acceptable. Dismissing because the presented evidence does not indicate fraud, does not mean there isn’t.
Posted on 8/8/23 at 1:44 pm to ItNeverRains
quote:
Imagine believing Joe Biden got 81 million legitimate votes.
He did get 81 million votes. Thats as far as the investigations were designed to go
He DID NOT get 81 million individually cast American votes. They were harvested en masse
Posted on 8/8/23 at 1:59 pm to rebeloke
I like Chris and agree with this statement.
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