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Posted on 6/3/20 at 1:28 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
Mark Levin said it should be 2nd degree.
Posted on 6/3/20 at 1:29 pm to Bamadiver
quote:
The higher the initial charge the more likely the acquittal... No way this dude gets a fair trial anyway... He has already been tried and good luck finding a jury of his peers... Maybe in Bangladesh?
watch the trial get moved to Todd Co., Minn.
a county that voted 70+% for Trump in 2016
ETA: accidentally quoted the wrong post originally
This post was edited on 6/3/20 at 1:35 pm
Posted on 6/3/20 at 1:33 pm to Jinks
quote:
If Chauvin has a lawyer worth a damn he is a happy man today. No way they get Murder 2. How are they going to prove Chauvin intended to kill?
They have unintentional murders in their 2nd degree murder statute:
quote:
609.19 MURDER IN THE SECOND DEGREE.
Subdivision 1.Intentional murder; drive-by shootings.
Whoever does either of the following is guilty of murder in the second degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 40 years:
(1) causes the death of a human being with intent to effect the death of that person or another, but without premeditation; or
(2) causes the death of a human being while committing or attempting to commit a drive-by shooting in violation of section 609.66, subdivision 1e, under circumstances other than those described in section 609.185, paragraph (a), clause (3).
Subd. 2.Unintentional murders.
Whoever does either of the following is guilty of unintentional murder in the second degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 40 years:
(1) causes the death of a human being, without intent to effect the death of any person, while committing or attempting to commit a felony offense other than criminal sexual conduct in the first or second degree with force or violence or a drive-by shooting; or
(2) causes the death of a human being without intent to effect the death of any person, while intentionally inflicting or attempting to inflict bodily harm upon the victim, when the perpetrator is restrained under an order for protection and the victim is a person designated to receive protection under the order. As used in this clause, "order for protection" includes an order for protection issued under chapter 518B; a harassment restraining order issued under section 609.748; a court order setting conditions of pretrial release or conditions of a criminal sentence or juvenile court disposition; a restraining order issued in a marriage dissolution action; and any order issued by a court of another state or of the United States that is similar to any of these orders.
The wording leads me to believe that only part (1) of the first subsection or part (1) of the second subsection (bolded relevant sections) can be applicable.
That means for a guilty verdict, the jury has to find that Chauvin had to INTEND to kill Floyd or the Chauvin was committing or attempting to commit a felony offense.
That's gonna be tough. I don't understand the upgrade to 2nd degree murder.
This post was edited on 6/3/20 at 1:34 pm
Posted on 6/3/20 at 1:33 pm to davyjones
quote:
Lesser and included, or responsive verdicts will be options for the jury as well. That would in this case consist of each lesser grade of murder in Minnesota law. It's certainly not an all or nothing scenario on 2nd degree murder.
ah ok... this makes sense
so even though he's charged with 2nd degree murder... the jury could still return a conviction on 2nd degree manslaughter if it so chooses
Posted on 6/3/20 at 1:36 pm to bbrownso
First half doesn’t seem to apply.
Second half could apply but it would have to involve some tortured logic involving police brutality or other such felony despite this apparently being an approved MPD restraint technique.
Second half could apply but it would have to involve some tortured logic involving police brutality or other such felony despite this apparently being an approved MPD restraint technique.
Posted on 6/3/20 at 1:37 pm to rt3
Yessir
Posted on 6/3/20 at 1:37 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
Only way they get this is if the body cam has audio of him saying he doesn’t care if he kills him. We don’t know all of the evidence. There’s more than just the original video. He may also have testimony from the 3 other officers in exchange for the lessor charge for them.
Posted on 6/3/20 at 1:40 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
The officers who were aware Floyd had no pulse, yet did not force Chauvin to get off?
One of the officers checked for a pulse while the cop was still on him?
I’m not being a jerk, I honestly don’t know
Posted on 6/3/20 at 1:42 pm to davyjones
quote:
Yessir
this just seems like a case where an all or nothing seems like a bad thing... a middle ground would be needed
that said... you never know what a jury is going to do
while a plea deal would probably be the best for the country's benefit... obviously that's something that would need to be agreed upon by both the Floyd family & Chauvin... and I just don't think that will happen
obviously this case feels perfect for a change of venue out of Minneapolis... and as I said earlier... I'd find it hilarious if it moved to a ruby red county like the aforementioned Todd Co.
Posted on 6/3/20 at 1:43 pm to LSUJML
quote:
One of the officers checked for a pulse while the cop was still on him?
I’m not being a jerk, I honestly don’t know
yes... that was apparently noted from body cam footage... and everyone held their positions for another 2.5 minutes after an officer said he couldn't find a pulse
Posted on 6/3/20 at 1:45 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
That dirt bag cop deserves whatever he gets. frick him. Because he killed tthat poor guy AND because he sparked a 2-week long shite show.
Posted on 6/3/20 at 1:45 pm to rt3
Holy shite
I haven’t watched the whole video
That’s horrible
I haven’t watched the whole video
That’s horrible
Posted on 6/3/20 at 1:50 pm to LSUJML
quote:
Holy shite
I haven’t watched the whole video
That’s horrible
I saw that tidbit of info in the probable cause report when Chauvin was 1st charged
Posted on 6/3/20 at 1:52 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
Irony considering Ellison himself should be in jail for life.
Posted on 6/3/20 at 1:58 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
(no message)
This post was edited on 7/16/20 at 7:01 am
Posted on 6/3/20 at 1:58 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
I have absolutely no problem with this.
Posted on 6/3/20 at 2:00 pm to stniaSxuaeG
quote:
If they go for murder 2, does the jury have the option to find him guilty on a lesser crime instead, like murder 3?
apparently yes... the jury could find him guilty of anything under murder 2 if it chooses
Posted on 6/3/20 at 2:03 pm to teke184
quote:
If they are being charged by the state already, they are skipping the grand jury AFAIK.
The grand jury is mainly there to determine if a charge needs to be held over for trial. Ellison et all seem to have made that determination already.
Well, I've worked in Georgia and Tennessee and that's not how things work here. In Tennessee, every case will start in General Sessions. From there, some will have a preliminary hearing in GS, many waive a preliminary hearing. Then, cases are bound over to the grand jury. If a true bill is returned, it is then transferred to the Criminal Court.
I have no idea how the criminal processes work in MN, but the state charging someone doesn't not preclude a grand jury hearing where I practice. The grand jury's purpose is to determine whether the state's indictment filed has probable cause to substantiate the indictment.
Sometimes, a case may be sent directly to a grand jury through a sealed indictment, but that is generally happening in sex crimes and drug conspiracy cases. But no one skips the grand jury phase here unless they chose to take a plea before it gets there.
Posted on 6/3/20 at 2:23 pm to rt3
quote:
yes... that was apparently noted from body cam footage... and everyone held their positions for another 2.5 minutes after an officer said he couldn't find a pulse
Those 2.5 minutes will end up being the difference between manslaughter & 2nd degree murder.
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