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Started By
Message
re: Lord’s Prayer opening may be ‘problematic’, says archbishop
Posted on 7/8/23 at 11:26 pm to Champagne
Posted on 7/8/23 at 11:26 pm to Champagne
quote:Peter wasn't celibate, which is interesting considering he is regarded as the first Pope.
I thought that Jesus was celibate? What about Paul? I thought that both of them talked about the desirability of celibacy?
And Jesus and Paul didn't demand celibacy for anyone except the unmarried (because fornication is a sin), but upheld the creation ordinance of marriage as a good thing, especially for those who were not gifted with the lack of sexual urges that tempt most people to lust.
There's a big difference in saying celibacy is a good thing, and saying celibacy is required.
"Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons, through the insincerity of liars whose consciences are seared, who forbid marriage and require abstinence from foods that God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth. For everything created by God is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving, for it is made holy by the word of God and prayer." -1 Tim. 1-5
1
Posted on 7/8/23 at 11:32 pm to Lima Whiskey
quote:It's a mistake to remain bound to a false church that rejects the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
Protestantism in general was a mistake. How do maintain any sense of orthodoxy, when you're a schismatic church? How do you prevent further splits?
I think our only two viable options at this point are Catholicism, and Orthodoxy, although both have their issues. The Catholic Church is in terrible shape, look at the people who lead it, and Orthodoxy may only be safe, because of the ethnic component and the physical remoteness of the Orthodox world from the Western world.
While I'd love to have unity in the body, the truth must be the first priority.
Martin Luther once said, "peace if possible; truth at all costs". I agree with that. As much as I'd love peace and unity, it cannot come at the expense of truth.
Posted on 7/8/23 at 11:49 pm to Mr. Misanthrope
quote:
Ba’al
so, do you think of Ba'al as simply an object that the devil has subverted to use for his own machinations.
or
is Ba'al its own entity. separate from our idea of devil/Satan. A different being, similar to God in nature but *not* stature? but does exist.
This post was edited on 7/9/23 at 12:02 am
Posted on 7/9/23 at 12:23 am to Iron Lion
Truer words never spoken. We are on the Autobahn to the Rapture!
Posted on 7/9/23 at 12:55 am to Foch
quote:
Henry may have like this fellow more than Cranmer. He surely would love the flexible religious doctrine and steadfast desire to please the world.
No, Henry would absolutely not buy into the gender bending bullshite. He was doctrinally traditional and would’ve remained the defender of the faith if not for that whole marriage annulment issue. Many of those around him were more radical.
Posted on 7/9/23 at 2:13 am to FooManChoo
quote:
God punished wickedness after giving ample time to repent and turn away from that wickedness.
His judgement fell on rebels and His fatherly displeasure on His people, but always with forgiveness when repentance was shown.
So what wickedness did the children who died in the Flood or the Egyptian plagues commit?
It’s disturbing how religion warps people’s minds to justify insane things.
quote:
The heavens declare the glory of God.
Whatever that means.
God’s supposedly all over the place in primitive civilizations to smite people for even trivial things, but He doesn’t show up in the modern world for any reason. There should be more than enough debauchery to have pissed Him off at some point.
quote:
You think it's too much for God to require that His creatures--whom He created for the purpose of communion, fellowship, and worship with God--trust in Him and His promises to them?
God hasn’t promised us anything. What we hear about God comes from His self-appointed representatives. Many of these representatives have contradictory messages, ulterior motives, and most just believe what they do because of where or how they were raised.
If God wants to promise me something, He can tell me directly instead of through fallible people. Shouldn’t be inconvenient since He is supposedly omnipresent.
quote:
You are rejecting God's revelation at this very minute while arguing that we aren't rebels. Hubris.
There’s been no revelation.
quote:
1. God continues to talk to us through His word in the Scriptures.
God supposedly talks to lots of people with different and contradictory messages.
quote:
2. The Scriptures are testimonies from the breath of God, Himself, who inspired men to write as He carried them along by His Spirit.
There are a lot of religious texts that are claimed to be divinely inspired.
quote:
3. Conditioning has nothing to do with it.
Even a brief glance at religious demographics would indicate otherwise.
If you lined up every Christian, Muslim, Jew, Hindu, and Buddhist in the world in front of us, we could guess their religion the vast majority of the time just by their ethnicity and clothing. Add what countries they have lived in and what languages they speak and we would almost never miss.
Cultural influence has a ton to do with religious belief.
quote:
Death came into the world through Adam's sin
Prehistoric species were killing each other for hundreds of millions of years before the first human. Read a science book.
Posted on 7/9/23 at 4:49 am to Elihu
It sure is if you're a believer, for all the non believers you are gonna as the saying goes.have a come to Jesus meeting and you better believe it.
Posted on 7/9/23 at 5:48 am to joeyjoejoeshabadoo
quote:
He has to go.
Today.
Posted on 7/9/23 at 6:15 am to FooManChoo
quote:
Peter wasn't celibate, which is interesting considering he is regarded as the first Pope.
celibate before he was a disciple of Jesus no obviously not he had a wife.
Celibate after he followed Jesus and was the first leader on the Church? Debatable.
My own personal opinion is that Peter when he followed Jesus was celibate. Notice there is never a mention of Peter's wife in the New Testament, just his mother in law. There are priests in the Catholic Church who had a wife and are celibate now. If a man's wife dies or his previous marriage was considered invalid, he can become a priest. He would still have a mother in law despite being celibate.
There is an exception for anglican priests who convert to Catholicism. Not sure where you are from but there is a married priest in the Diocese of Baton Rouge, where I am from.
quote:
There's a big difference in saying celibacy is a good thing, and saying celibacy is required.
This is how I understand the Church's discipline of celibacy. It's important to understand the passage bellow.
quote:
The disciples said to him, “If such is the case of a man with his wife, it is not expedient to marry.” But he said to them, “Not all men can receive this saying, but only those to whom it is given. For there are eunuchs who have been so from birth, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. He who is able to receive this, let him receive it.” Mt 19:10–12.
Simply put Jesus calls some to make themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. Jesus isn't saying to literally make yourself a eunuch but act like you are one, the NAB translation says renounce marriage.
Marriage is a good and upheld as a Sacrament in the Catholic Church. Actually Catholics uphold marriage so high that we don't simply give away divorces or have fault divorces like many protestant denominations. We believe that if a sacramental marriage occurred then it can never be broken. An annulment states a sacramental marriage never took place, but that's for another thread.
My point is that some men and women are called to sacrifice marriage for the sake of the kingdom. The church's discipline is that all priests (with some exceptions) be celibate. A discipline is basically a teaching that isn't the level of a doctrine. A Pope or a council of the Church in theory could change thet discipline, but the chances of being struck by lightning are much higher than the Church ever changing that discipline.
My personal opinion is that is what Jesus desired for his priests. I would argue that all his apostles are celibate. While there is nothing in the scriptures that say they were all celibate, looking a bit deeper and reading some of the ancient christian writings, it's very plausible that they were all celibate. I've already spoke about Peter.
This post was edited on 7/9/23 at 6:22 am
Posted on 7/9/23 at 6:19 am to Smeg
quote:Huh. You know what, that actually is not what I expected-
I know the word ‘father’ is problematic for those whose experience of earthly fathers has been destructive and abusive
quote:Aaaaaaaand there it is.
and for all of us who have laboured rather too much from an oppressively patriarchal grip on life,”
Posted on 7/9/23 at 6:53 am to Smeg
Shouldn’t God be your #1 goal, not worried about talking about god.
Posted on 7/9/23 at 7:36 am to Smeg
Catholicism along with every other religion is hypocritical. Can we all just believe in God without labeling “I’m a catholic, Baptist” etc?
Posted on 7/9/23 at 7:37 am to Smeg
Dumb
Posted on 7/9/23 at 7:41 am to Champagne
quote:The Catholic speaks. That's rich!
Should that not be a clue that you guys may have gotten it wrong?
Posted on 7/9/23 at 7:54 am to FooManChoo
quote:
It's a mistake to remain bound to a false church that rejects the Gospel of Jesus Christ
I agree, which is why I'm a faithful member of His One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church. Not one of the 40,000 other "things", most of which teach "faith alone", which was virtually unheard of for over 1500 years, and is a doctrine of men.
This post was edited on 7/9/23 at 8:03 am
Posted on 7/9/23 at 7:55 am to catholictigerfan
Great response, but I can simplify it: priestly celibacy is a discipline, not a doctrine. There are rites within the church that do not practice priestly celibacy, the Eastern Rite being one.
Posted on 7/9/23 at 8:15 am to AggieHank86
quote:
So, you think God has a dick?
Huge one, the biggest.
Posted on 7/9/23 at 8:56 am to Smeg
Be it known that in the 2023th year of Our Lord this fake Bishop publicly stated he disagrees with Jesus Christ (aka - The Boss) regarding his 'problematic' opening of 'His' Lord's Prayer.
The loonytoons in religion have now officially gone over the edge.
People be going crazy.
The loonytoons in religion have now officially gone over the edge.
People be going crazy.
This post was edited on 7/9/23 at 9:09 am
Posted on 7/9/23 at 9:28 am to Globetrotter747
quote:"The Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intention of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually." -Genesis 6:5
So what wickedness did the children who died in the Flood or the Egyptian plagues commit?
It’s disturbing how religion warps people’s minds to justify insane things.
That's the general theme for sin against God. Another way it's put is, "Everyone did what was right in his own eyes".
Idolatry is when you place anything in higher esteem than you do God. When someone is doing what is right in his own eyes, that means he's not doing what is right in God's eyes. That's the nature of morality in today's culture, as well, which doesn't bode well for us. Ironically, that's what you're displaying when you say my mind is "warped" by justifying God's right to destroy His own creation for its rebellion against Him. You have no objective moral standard to use to condemn such actions by God or anyone else; all you have is your opinion.
quote:It means that God's existence and power are clearly manifested in nature.
Whatever that means.
God’s supposedly all over the place in primitive civilizations to smite people for even trivial things, but He doesn’t show up in the modern world for any reason. There should be more than enough debauchery to have pissed Him off at some point.
God spoke to men directly and through the prophets in days of old, but speaks to us today through the incarnate Word of God in Jesus Christ. That Word was recorded in the Scriptures of the Old and New Testaments.
God spoke to people and did miracles to convince anyone of His existence, yet those who witnessed His power rejected Him and disobeyed Him anyway, because denying God's existence isn't an intellectual problem, but a moral problem.
quote:Jesus did miracles and fulfilled many prophecies, yet He was rejected time and time again by the very people who believed God spoke by the prophets. Why do you think you're superior to them? You have God's word proclaimed to you even now, and you reject it.
God hasn’t promised us anything. What we hear about God comes from His self-appointed representatives. Many of these representatives have contradictory messages, ulterior motives, and most just believe what they do because of where or how they were raised.[quote]God has promised many things, most important of which is that if a person repents of their sin and believes in Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of sins, that God will forgive that person of their sins and allow them to have eternal life.
What we hear about God (aside from what we know from creation itself) is from God, not merely representatives. God speaks through the Bible, which He inspired by His Spirit, and guided or moved the writers to write according to what He wanted us to understand. What is contained in the Bible is the message of salvation.
[quote]If God wants to promise me something, He can tell me directly instead of through fallible people. Shouldn’t be inconvenient since He is supposedly omnipresent.
And think: if God spoke to you and you believed, that doesn't mean anyone else would believe you. What you're asking of God would need to be done to every single person, and yet due to the hardness of our hearts, that still wouldn't be enough. Instead, God wants us to trust His word as He has given it. If you reject the King's messengers, you reject the King. He doesn't owe us anything, especially when we continually spit in His face with unbelief.
quote:There has. God reveals Himself in nature, and He revealed Himself through the prophets, and ultimately through the incarnate word, Jesus Christ, His eternally begotten son. When you reject these, you reject God. You ask for God to speak to you, but He already has. Repent of your rebellion against Him and put your trust in the Lord Jesus Christ for forgiveness of your sins.
There’s been no revelation.
quote:God has finished "talking" through special revelation. The canon of God's Word (the Bible) is closed. Any claims that God continues to speak outside of creation (His display of His existence and power) and the Bible (revelation to humans about the nature of sin and salvation through Jesus Christ) are false and will certainly be prone to contradictory to what God has already revealed.
God supposedly talks to lots of people with different and contradictory messages.
quote:Very true, which is why all claims should be tested. The Bible claims to be God's word, not the word of men (as many religions' holy books say), so those that claim to be from men alone provide no reason for adherence to them because the words of man are arbitrary; any person can say whatever they want. Others claim to be from God, so they have to be able to adequately explain reality as we know it, such as comporting to the laws of logic. The concept of Nirvana, for instance, proclaims that there are no distinctions (there is no self), yet that is a violation of the law of non-contradiction. What we are left with at the end of the day are religions that claim to come from a personal God that ape the Christian Bible, like Mormonism and Islam. Those religions can be tested by the Bible, itself, which those religions claim to recognize to one degree or another. Doing so shows that those religions are contradictory.
There are a lot of religious texts that are claimed to be divinely inspired.
An internal critique is necessary for all truth claims.
quote:Cultural influence has some to do with religious belief, but only in the human sense. The biggest factor there is exposure to other options rather than "conditioning".
Even a brief glance at religious demographics would indicate otherwise.
If you lined up every Christian, Muslim, Jew, Hindu, and Buddhist in the world in front of us, we could guess their religion the vast majority of the time just by their ethnicity and clothing. Add what countries they have lived in and what languages they speak and we would almost never miss.
Cultural influence has a ton to do with religious belief.
The argument you seem to be making is that if someone is merely "conditioned" to believe something, they will believe it for the rest of their life. That's not true. I'm sure you and many others on this site who claim atheism or agnosticism have been heavily influenced to be Christians from an early age and have since rejected it. The point of Christian missionary work is to preach the gospel to other nations and cultures that don't know the truth so that they can hear it and believe it, to change hearts and minds away from what they believe currently.
Again, I don't see that as an issue with "conditioning" but exposure to the truth (or lack thereof).
quote:This belief is based on interpretation of evidence that is measured based on presuppositions about the age of the earth and the uniformity of nature. Prior belief directs understanding.
Prehistoric species were killing each other for hundreds of millions of years before the first human. Read a science book.
Read the book that provides eternal life: the Bible.
Posted on 7/9/23 at 10:07 am to Champagne
quote:
the heirarchy of the Roman Catholic Church follow the Catechism and do not worship Satan, so, let me clear that up for you.
No doubt the church doesn’t claim to worship Satan.
Could you see though why some of the inspired word of God could make some people question that? Let me give you one example.
Here is how the LORD is described:
Hosea 13
quote:
4But I am the LORD your God from the land of Egypt; you know no God but me, and besides me there is no savior. 5It was I who knew you in the wilderness, in the land of drought; 6but when they had grazed,a they became full, they were filled, and their heart was lifted up; therefore they forgot me. 7So I am to them like a lion; like a leopard I will lurk beside the way. 8I will fall upon them like a bear robbed of her cubs; I will tear open their breast, and there I will devour them like a lion, as a wild beast would rip them open.
And here are a few other verses to read and ponder.
Revelation 13
quote:
2And the beast that I saw was like a leopard; its feet were like a bear’s, and its mouth was like a lion’s mouth. And to it the dragon gave his power and his throne and great authority.
See also Daniel 7, Isaiah 11.
One more example:
Psalm 17
quote:
12He is like a lion eager to tear, as a young lion lurking in ambush. 13Arise, O LORD! Confront him, subdue him! Deliver my soul from the wicked by your sword,
1 Peter
quote:
8Be sober-minded; be watchful. Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour.
Ok just one more example. Look it up. In the end of 2 Samuel and in 1 Chronicles, the same story is told, slightly differently of course, about a census David conducts. In 2 Samuel, it said the LORD incited David to conduct the census. In 1 Chronicles, it says Satan incited David to conduct the census. Other than Chronicles exaggerating the number of fingering men found in Israel and Judah, the story is the same, except in one it is the LORD and in the second, Satan takes his place.
I hope you can at least see why someone may have doubts.
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