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Started By
Message
re: Mayor Pete: “Jesus was born a refugee”
Posted on 12/30/19 at 4:02 pm to HempHead
Posted on 12/30/19 at 4:02 pm to HempHead
quote:
The only obvious prohibitions against homosexuality were Pauline, and more than likely that was because of Gentile proselytization where communities may not have had as strict a view on sodomy as the Hebrews.
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who is victorious, I will grant the right to eat from the tree of life in the paradise of God.
2
Posted on 12/30/19 at 4:04 pm to Apollyon
I listen, and I am humbled.
Posted on 12/30/19 at 4:04 pm to HempHead
quote:frustrating to be accused of saying something that you never said, is it not?quote:That is not what I did at all. If you want to claim as much, all power to you. Rest assured that we are in agreement in almost all things that matter.
Stating that Christ's proscription against homosexuality is purely a figment of St. Paul's writing, and similarly dismissing Paul's re-iteration of Christ's teachings is what you did.
Anyone who can read can see that you did not make the statements that are being attributed to you.
I can sympathize.
Posted on 12/30/19 at 4:05 pm to AggieHank86
I quoted him, sir.
Posted on 12/30/19 at 4:07 pm to AggieHank86
quote:
who came into this world not in riches but in poverty, not as a citizen but as a refugee.
Let's parse this:
quote:
who came into this world not in riches but in poverty,
Mostly true. Although somewhat debatable as Joseph was a carpenter a trade who back in the day while not "rich" would have been solidly middle class.
Also near birth Jesus was gifted Gold, Frankincense, and Myrrh, which were very valuable items.
quote:
not as a citizen but as a refugee.
Completely false. Jesus was born in his father's hometown. That would mean he was a citizen automatically. If anything the Blessed Mother had Jesus an an anchor baby.
Posted on 12/30/19 at 4:11 pm to Mid Iowa Tiger
quote:With all due respect, you are mistaken. There is a significant difference between being a “citizen” and being a “subject.”quote:Completely false. Jesus was born in his father's hometown. That would mean he was a citizen automatically. If anything the Blessed Mother had Jesus an an anchor baby.
not as a citizen but as a refugee.
Take the Roman empire as an example. It had many millions of “subjects,” but comparatively few “citizens” at the time of Jesus’ birth. Judea was a client state, NOT a Roman province. Only a tiny handful of people in Judea had been awarded Roman citizenship. Mostly the high nobility.
There were no “citizens” of Judea, only subjects of King Herod.
This post was edited on 12/30/19 at 4:17 pm
Posted on 12/30/19 at 4:13 pm to AggieHank86
So? Because jesus was 'born a refugee'.. it means that we should gleefully let Mexican illegals in, so Democrats can make more states blue and eventually erase christianity from our country?
Posted on 12/30/19 at 4:13 pm to Mid Iowa Tiger
quote:
Jesus was born in his father's hometown. That would mean he was a citizen automatically.
As in a Roman Citizen?
Posted on 12/30/19 at 4:14 pm to NYNolaguy1
quote:
I guess you could twist this to claim he is referring to heterosexuality
Imagine how retarded you would have to be to call the heterosexual take on this a “twist” of scripture.
Btw, It’s not just Jesus, Paul, and the OT either. Jude condemns homosexuality and Peter talks about marriage in the context of a wife and husband and he also talks about the condemnation of sodom and gomorrah. The Bible couldn’t be any more clearer on this topic.
Posted on 12/30/19 at 4:15 pm to PickupAutist
Fact.
Posted on 12/30/19 at 4:17 pm to PickupAutist
quote:
The Bible couldn’t be any more clearer on this topic.
In case you just swooped in on the conversation without reading the thread, I had the very narrow question of quoting Jesus about homosexuality, not Paul or the Old Testament.
Carry on.
Posted on 12/30/19 at 4:43 pm to NYNolaguy1
quote:
As in a Roman Citizen?
No as in a "citizen" of Bethlehem. I get the nuance of Roman citizenship but not what I was talking about. Nor really what Buttchug was either.
Posted on 12/30/19 at 4:49 pm to Godfather1
quote:
He temporarily became one when Herod ordered the slaughter of the Holy Innocents. After Herod’s death shortly thereafter, they returned.
This is correct.
Yesterday we attended Mass in Galveston while we were out of town. This was part of the Homily. The Priest was factually correct here. Joseph did flee to Egypt and did return to Israel and raised Jesus in Nazareth. Fleeing death is a correct usage of the refugee status.
The issue i had with the homily arose when he then pivoted to the issues of people at boarders around the world and tried to say they too were refugees.. The priest went on to lecture about the history of cultural changes in the history of the world and how we cant do much about them. my problem he used the Visigoths and Gauls moving into southern Europe and the Moors from Africa north into Italy....
The issue here was the fact those cultures came in and absolutely murdered the local population and installed their culture. This was VERY violent and not some symbiotic assimilation as it was portrayed. Very disingenuous in my opinion. He used these examples and made it sound like they migrated down and cultures blended and changed, etc. That's like saying the Germans just wanted to change the culture of their land and that's just history...leaving out the whole extinction of the Jewish people as the means to obtain a culture change...
Yes cultures change over time. His examples were terrible and then furthering it as there is "nothing we can do about it, i'm glad i wont be around for it" was pretty shitty to be honest. One should not go gently into that good night...One should rage against the dying of the light.
There is a moral obligation i feel to help those who are truly in a refugee fear for life status where we are able. That does not mean you let anyone in and allow them to do as they see fit with disregard for rules or zero intention of assimilation.
If I were to leave for another country it would be my obligation to learn the language and exist withing their framework with the goal for assimilation. Not to bring America to them with zero regard for their culture.
sorry, rant over.
Posted on 12/30/19 at 4:54 pm to AggieHank86
No he wasn't. His parents were on their way to be counted in a census so they could be taxed. They only became "refugees" when word got our that Herod was going to kill a male children in Bethlehem.
Posted on 12/30/19 at 4:58 pm to Tchefuncte Tiger
quote:This is actually when the story gets interesting. By the time Herod got the notion of killing all the male children in Bethlehem, one would expect Mary, Joseph and their newborn to have returned to Nazareth. They were only in Bethlehem for a few days in order to register in the census. They should have been perfectly safe 100 miles away, back in Nazareth.
His parents were on their way to be counted in a census so they could be taxed. They only became "refugees" when word got our that Herod was going to kill a male children in Bethlehem.
This post was edited on 12/30/19 at 5:09 pm
Posted on 12/30/19 at 5:00 pm to AggieHank86
So Mr. I'm a gay Christian doesn't even know the birth story of how Mary and Joseph were in Bethlehem For The Roman Census.
He probably went on to criticize VP Pence for his moral/religious observations.
He probably went on to criticize VP Pence for his moral/religious observations.
Posted on 12/30/19 at 5:01 pm to AggieHank86
No. He wasn't
Posted on 12/30/19 at 6:18 pm to AggieHank86
Mary, Joseph, and Jesus' return to Nazareth would have been unknown to Herod. Their census registration was known to be in Bethlehem and the location of the Star known to Herod to be over a point in Bethlehem and the Magi sent thus came to Bethlehem. There is no mention of word being passed back to Herod of St. Joseph's town of permanent residence (Nazareth) or of his time of return there to Nazareth.
Thus the order to "kill all male children under age 2" in the land around Bethlehem made sense to Herod.
The historicity of the massacre itself is oft questioned, until one realizes that histories of the day were far from comprehensive and that the "males under age 2" population of a single town in Judea is actually not as large a number as to register as far reaching news except to those with intimate knowledge of that specific town and time.
Thus the order to "kill all male children under age 2" in the land around Bethlehem made sense to Herod.
The historicity of the massacre itself is oft questioned, until one realizes that histories of the day were far from comprehensive and that the "males under age 2" population of a single town in Judea is actually not as large a number as to register as far reaching news except to those with intimate knowledge of that specific town and time.
Posted on 12/30/19 at 6:20 pm to Apollyon
I understand all of that and agree with parts of it ... which is WHY I question the need for fleeing to Egypt.
Posted on 12/30/19 at 6:28 pm to AggieHank86
quote:
I understand all of that and agree with parts of it ... which is WHY I question the need for fleeing to Egypt.
It actually fulfilled prophecy concerning the Messiah...
Matthew 2:13-15
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