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re: New "safer" herbicide 200 times worse than the old one?
Posted on 7/8/25 at 8:58 pm to Crimson Wraith
Posted on 7/8/25 at 8:58 pm to Crimson Wraith
There’s nothing new about diquat.
Everything in moderation. Too much oxygen will kill you too.
Everything in moderation. Too much oxygen will kill you too.
0
Posted on 7/8/25 at 8:59 pm to deltaland
quote:
Without current yields American farmers go out of business and you’ll be staring at a famine. Feed will skyrocket and put cattle, poultry, aquaculture out of business or make meat prices soar.
You want extremely high inflation and food shortages then get rid of these pesticides and herbicides. Are they probably bad for us? Sure, but it’s not like life expectancy in the U.S. is low. It’s a trade off for food security and affordable groceries
This is a bit of an overdramatization of the issue but the frequent one from the agroindustry. At least you admit it is a tradeoff and there are negative effects, that is more than most do.
The food yield argument has some holes though. There are safer alternatives that won't totally crush yields, look at the rest of the world. We have farmland being "wasted" making ethanol due to subsidies. we have farmland being converted to other uses like solar farms etc. The higher cost to use alternatives would be offset by a reduction in healthcare and sickness related costs etc. It goes on and on.
But you are invested in the current system so will brush everything off and be fine with the tradeoff. I have and many Americans are reaching the point where they are not satisfied with the status quo. You do you.
Posted on 7/8/25 at 8:59 pm to Crimson Wraith
Diquat is bad shite.
Posted on 7/8/25 at 9:02 pm to LegendInMyMind
quote:
I wouldn't be so sure about that.
Perhaps I'm a little optimistic about it but the younger generation seem to be catching on about seed oil, processed foods and additives. Some of the older generation seem set in their ways.
If they follow through with the GRAS review and restructure it would be a big accomplishment.
Posted on 7/8/25 at 9:06 pm to SpartanSoul
Farmers arent spraying diquat roundup on your food. And what does this have to do with seed oils?
Posted on 7/8/25 at 9:14 pm to GregMaddux
quote:
Farmers arent spraying diquat roundup on your food. And what does this have to do with seed oils?
My original post was referring to glyphosate, and they were definitely spraying that on a large part of the food supply, and it made it into packaged food products. Sometimes it was sprayed as a drying agent, not even to kill weeds.
The seed oils was in a reference to MAHA which definitely includes reducing seed oil consumption.
Posted on 7/8/25 at 9:43 pm to deltaland
quote:
Without current yields American farmers go out of business and you’ll be staring at a famine. Feed will skyrocket and put cattle, poultry, aquaculture out of business or make meat prices soar.
You clearly haven't studied the subject in decades. These chemicals are not required for good production. That was debunked decades ago through real science applied to real agriculture practices.
Posted on 7/8/25 at 9:50 pm to SpartanSoul
quote:
Perhaps I'm a little optimistic about it but the younger generation seem to be catching on about seed oil, processed foods and additives. Some of the older generation seem set in their ways.
If they follow through with the GRAS review and restructure it would be a big accomplishment.
That is a different subject than the one the OP is concerning. RFK and the folks currently over the chemical review process within the EPA don't exactly share the same views. Hell, we are very likely about to get rid of the only independent chemical research department we have in the EPA.
Posted on 7/8/25 at 9:58 pm to LegendInMyMind
quote:
That is a different subject than the one the OP is concerning. RFK and the folks currently over the chemical review process within the EPA don't exactly share the same views. Hell, we are very likely about to get rid of the only independent chemical research department we have in the EPA.
I know but I see it all eventually tying together. We need the USDA, FDA, EPA etc. to all get on the same page. If RFK can raise awareness and make headway, I am hopeful it will spread to other areas. Once you "wake someone up" they generally become more aware of other health factors in their life and it kind of snowballs.
I know it is a longshot but the whole system is so screwed any positive movement could have long term benefits.
Posted on 7/8/25 at 9:59 pm to Trevaylin
quote:
actually the link between roundup and cancer was determined by civil trial, using a jury that had minimal chemical awareness or oncology knowledge. an outstanding case of correlation interpreted as causation. Setting health limits by civil litigation is wrong. At all levels. Setting limits at detection levels is stupid also
IOW, as John Stossel would call it, "junk science."
Posted on 7/8/25 at 10:19 pm to SpartanSoul
quote:
I know it is a longshot but the whole system is so screwed any positive movement could have long term benefits.
I'm with you on that. If it only results in more public awareness that leads to real change at the individual level it would be a great help. American homeowners spray more chemicals per acre than farmers/Big Ag. The cumulative effect of that on our environment and its ecosystems is significant, and honestly......very poorly understood.
Posted on 7/8/25 at 11:13 pm to deltaland
quote:
Without current yields American farmers go out of business
Idk the answer or how serious the risks of diquat or round up are but I do know this is touch and go as it is
I think a lot of people don't realize that this fall and next spring there's going to be a lot of talk about farmers and them having major financial issues. Yes, we already get a ton of subsidies and even as someone who has benefited from them I'm not wild about them but there's going to be talk of significant increases in the near future
Posted on 7/8/25 at 11:15 pm to Crimson Wraith
All this shite is banned in Europe, but on average we have the same, if not better life expectancy that most of the countries.
Posted on 7/9/25 at 2:43 am to Tunasntigers92
Posted on 7/9/25 at 3:10 am to Wishnitwas1998
quote:
Idk the answer or how serious the risks of diquat or round up are but I do know this is touch and go as it is
There is also another herbicide that is actually not sold in some places in Louisiana for certain times of the year called 2-4D that is even more toxic to humans.
The only good thing about Glyphosate was that Monsanto bred a certain variety of corn that was Glyphosate Ready meaning you could spray it on the crop and it would not kill the corn. Of course how much of that Glyphosate ended up in the corn we eat.
That also brings up issues of bioengineering/genetic modification of corn and creating patented seeds that are only life cycled once and seeds from the next generation are either sterile or you have Monsanto (now Bayer) suing your arse for violating their seed license.
Posted on 7/9/25 at 1:10 pm to Tarps99
quote:
called 2-4D that is eve
Oh I'm well familiar with 2-4-D, I love using it. Burns just about everything
Just gotta be careful about drift depending on what's close by
Posted on 7/9/25 at 1:16 pm to SpartanSoul
quote:
The food yield argument has some holes though. There are safer alternatives that won't totally crush yields
What do you make of GMOs?
Posted on 7/9/25 at 1:50 pm to Figgy
quote:
What do you make of GMOs?
All depends. Making a crop higher in nutrition or disease resistant is great. Modifying it so you can spray large quantities of chemicals ala "Roundup Ready" not so much.
I do support thorough review by independent researchers.
Posted on 7/9/25 at 2:08 pm to SpartanSoul
quote:
All depends. Making a crop higher in nutrition or disease resistant is great. Modifying it so you can spray large quantities of chemicals ala "Roundup Ready" not so much. I do support thorough review by independent researchers.
That’s actually a well reasoned position. I had to ask because companies like Bayer do a lot of good work that helps protect crops by making them disease resistant, drought hardy and increasing yields. But there’s a segment of posters that read GMO and are entirely against it and don’t seem to realize how that would negatively impact food supplies.
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