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Started By
Message
re: No punishment is creating a Shoplifting epidemic in New York
Posted on 1/11/23 at 10:53 am to 4cubbies
Posted on 1/11/23 at 10:53 am to 4cubbies
quote:
How many departments were actually "defunded"? New Orleans wasn't and crime has exploded here.
None...not a single one, nary a budget cut LOL. There have been attempts, there has been budgets passed which did indeed include cuts...but none of them ever got passed. About 2% of police budgets across the US have been cut by an average of 2% over the last 4 years while 96% of police budgets have increased by an average of 10%. Cuts were, across the board, the result in loss of population and corresponding revenue for police departments....if the population grew or stayed the same the budget grew, across the board.
There also has not been an increase in crime....there has been an increase in crimes reported by police departments across the nation. That does not mean a corresponding increase in crime....most crimes never get reported to police and many which are reported to police do not produce any kind of record of them having been reported. Police departments are more interested in reporting crime because of the defunding rhetoric.....not because there is more crime but out of fear that folks will realize that cops are highly inefficient at preventing crime and almost as ineffective at making arrests and getting convictions. Scare the taxpayers into believing they are gonna be victimized any minute and most taxpayers will decide increasing police budgets is a good idea and that is right up the police departments alley. I know ya'll will disagree and that most of you are convinced that government employees are the epitome of effieciency and ethical behavior but you'd be wrong...they are human and all that that implies....
2
Posted on 1/11/23 at 10:58 am to riccoar
quote:
You missed the point. The movement brought about this current status. THe rise in crime is not a mystery.
Police are being told to stand down.
So the argument is that the police department management is, for all intents and purposes, committing fraud by paying cops to "stand down" and we are not supposed to cut their funding to stop that fraud??? WOW...i would have never believed that the liberals among us would have gotten so on board with such wasteful spending.
If cops are being told to stand down or they are doing so on their own they should be defunded by being fired for economic malfeasance and investigated for fraud. That is the epitome of ill behavior by public employees yet it is somehow someone other than the criminals in the police department either standing down or telling others to stand down who is to blame. How did y'all get there? That is some sure enough convoluted thinking....
Posted on 1/11/23 at 10:58 am to AwgustaDawg
quote:
here also has not been an increase in crime.
This 100% false. There may not be a nationwide increase in crime but there is absolutely an increase in crime in certain municipalities.
Posted on 1/11/23 at 11:01 am to AwgustaDawg
quote:
There also has not been an increase in crime.
Why do progressives lie with such ease?
Posted on 1/11/23 at 11:02 am to Mago
You get what you get when you bow to the changes in culture that ran like a real pandemic throughout this country under Obama and Biden. And yes, this getting away with stealing etc goes back to Obama with the whole bullshite profiling thing.
This IS your America.
This IS your America.
Posted on 1/11/23 at 11:05 am to kingbob
quote:
Defund the police =\= cash free bail
Two different movements, one with a lot more success ad support than the other. This cash free bail has basically neutered police because everyone they arrest is back on the street the next day.
Serious question, would it not be beneficial for every one involved to shift from a focus on arrests to a focus on crime prevention??? In an ideal world a crime would have to have been committed for an arrest to be made. Most crimes involve a victim....and crime prevention has little to do with arrests and more to do with police presence. It is also far safer to prevent a crime than make an arrest for the cops. Crime prevention means fewer victims, fewer criminals and safer cops. Of course there ain't no way to brag about preventing a crime so you can demand more budget to make arrests.....
Posted on 1/11/23 at 11:13 am to Bourre
quote:
This
Cashless bail is the root cause of the issue. I’m not saying defunding the police isn’t an issue as well but what good is police when criminals have a revolving door at the courthouse? These people do not fear the consequences of an arrest.
An arrest is a failing of the system, not an indication that the system is working. An arrest means a crime was committed, or should mean that. Most crimes involve a victim. An arrest is a failing unless the goal is to make arrests and not prevent crime.
And why is it the job of the state (city or municipal government) to ensure the safety of MY property???? Seriously...when did that become a thing in the United States that the police were responsible for ensuring the safety of private property? Again, all the police can do is make an arrest if someone steals your property....your property is still stolen. How does that arrest aid you in any manner??? It doesn't. If you have a problem with folks stealing your property it is incumbent upon you to secure your property, not the taxpayer. Take some personal responsibility. Lock your stuff up....plenty of convenience stores in high crime areas do just this. Just lock your stuff up and protect it....do not rely on the state to make an arrest because an arrest can only take place AFTER your stuff is stolen...your stuff ain't coming back most of the time when an arrest is made.
Posted on 1/11/23 at 11:17 am to AwgustaDawg
Well, it’s heavily discouraged for shopkeepers to detain suspected shoplifters or go after them. The order has come down from corporations and insurers that it’s often cheaper to let shoplifters leave unimpeded than to attempt to detain them and deal with lawsuits for false imprisonment.
When this is combined that even with cctv footage, an arrest likely does nothing because the suspect is back out the next day and rarely ever sentenced, there are NO CONSEQUENCES. So, people just steal anything and everything until those businesses close.
There’s only two options:
Increasing consequences for caught shoplifters to deter others from doing the same.
Prevention of theft by basically locking up every product than can be stolen behind a counter, something not really feasible for most brick & mortar retailers.
My theory is this is being done by design to bankrupt brick & mortar retailers at the behest of online retailers like Amazon.
When this is combined that even with cctv footage, an arrest likely does nothing because the suspect is back out the next day and rarely ever sentenced, there are NO CONSEQUENCES. So, people just steal anything and everything until those businesses close.
There’s only two options:
Increasing consequences for caught shoplifters to deter others from doing the same.
Prevention of theft by basically locking up every product than can be stolen behind a counter, something not really feasible for most brick & mortar retailers.
My theory is this is being done by design to bankrupt brick & mortar retailers at the behest of online retailers like Amazon.
This post was edited on 1/11/23 at 11:19 am
Posted on 1/11/23 at 11:18 am to 4cubbies
quote:
so why did you aggressively respond to my post as if I was wrong if you're now claiming that defunding AND funding the police leads to an increase in crime? I legit don't know what point you're trying to make and I don't believe you know either.
Because funding does not solve the issue.
Police are retiring at an unprecedented rate due to the vilification of the profession. The new hires (such as they are...limited in number) are not enough to offset the numbers retiring (early in many instances).
In areas where the police have been defunded, the situation is much more pronounced.
Let me put it to you this way:
Teachers are blamed for shitty parenting.
They are leaving the profession in droves.
Compensation packages are put forth.
There isn’t enough new teachers to replace the ones that are bailing.
The teacher shortage has become exacerbated by people attacking the profession.
It is worse in areas that aren’t properly funded (or areas that have been defunded).
Did that analogy help?
This post was edited on 1/11/23 at 11:19 am
Posted on 1/11/23 at 11:22 am to 4cubbies
quote:
This thread is a claim that defunding the police has led to increase in crime. I pointed out that New Orleans has increased police funding and has experienced a dramatic increase in crime. What point are you trying to make?
Serious question...is anyone certain that crime has indeed increased or has the reporting of crime by the people whose funding is being questioned, the only people capable of reporting crime, increased? Is it beyond the pale of reason to think it possible that the police, fearing budget cuts, made a concerted effort to make a record or crimes that they would previously ignore reports of because they feared an increase in crime stats making budget cuts a reality???? Since the sole bar they are measured by is arrests...not prevention and not convictions but arrests....it is entirely possible that, back in the good old days before the public had the umitigated gall to question police budgets, that the only thing that ever impacted police budgets negatively was an increase in crime. Only 2 ways to prevent an increase in crime...either increase crime prevention, which can be damned hard work, or simply not producing a record of a crime when one is committed....much easier than actually preventing a crime because it requires NO ACTION AT ALL and facilitates sitting in a car playing bubble pop and writing speeding tickets. Now that the public has questioned the budget, no matter how insignificantly that questioning has been, is it not possible that cops are now reporting crimes that would have been ignored before out of fear of budget cuts???? Again, reporting crimes is far easier work than the damned difficult task of preventing a crime....is it not possible that they could find time in their bubble popping schedule to actually produce a report of a crime every once in a while???? I know y'all are convinced that government employees can do no wrong but I ain't so sure that is the case....
Posted on 1/11/23 at 11:23 am to AwgustaDawg
quote:
I know y'all are convinced that government employees can do no wrong but I ain't so sure that is the case....
Never go full retard.
Posted on 1/11/23 at 11:25 am to Flats
quote:
Never go full retard.
It’s too late for this prog.
Posted on 1/11/23 at 11:28 am to kingbob
quote:
Well, it’s heavily discouraged for shopkeepers to detain suspected shoplifters or go after them. The order has come down from corporations and insurers that it’s often cheaper to let shoplifters leave unimpeded than to attempt to detain them and deal with lawsuits for false imprisonment.
When this is combined that even with cctv footage, an arrest likely does nothing because the suspect is back out the next day and rarely ever sentenced, there are NO CONSEQUENCES. So, people just steal anything and everything until those businesses close.
There’s only two options:
Increasing consequences for caught shoplifters to deter others from doing the same.
Prevention of theft by basically locking up every product than can be stolen behind a counter, something not really feasible for most brick & mortar retailers.
My theory is this is being done by design to bankrupt brick & mortar retailers at the behest of online retailers like Amazon.
I would posit that the retailers reluctance to have their employees get involved is the actual culprit...only an idiot is going to steal stuff if a cop is present even if the chances of being convicted do not exist....but stealing stuff under the watchful eye of an underpaid cashier who was already bent on not getting involved who has been taught not to get involved, and rightfully so, by the way, seems like a no brainer if you are intent on stealing stuff. SO why can't retailers simply secure their property? It hasn't been that long ago that retailers were no self service...you had to ask someone in the store to fill an order for you. It would require some labor of course and the CEO might have to do with only 8-10 jets and 4 or 5 houses so why not blame it on the cops???? It is not the cops job to secure private property....if it is stolen the property is gone, the cops ain't getting it back most of the time....preventing the theft should be the goal and the responsibility for that is the owner, not the police.
Posted on 1/11/23 at 11:29 am to AwgustaDawg
quote:
Serious question...is anyone certain that crime has indeed increased
Jesus Christ, can you at least do a google search? Goddman.
Posted on 1/11/23 at 11:34 am to Mago
Is murder still a felony in New York? What if you're only a first time offender?
Posted on 1/11/23 at 11:35 am to 4cubbies
quote:
This 100% false. There may not be a nationwide increase in crime but there is absolutely an increase in crime in certain municipalities.
Based on what metrics? Where is the data coming from? It certainly is not coming from any unconcerned entity and is, in fact, most likely coming from the people who are facing possible budget cuts. Anecdotal evidence is also subject to manipulation by those same parties who fear budget cuts....simply telling someone who reports a crime that there crime is being recorded but nothing can be done about it because of budget cuts is outrageous to the victim, many of who will go running to the nearest reporter to tell that story. That same victim, just a few years ago, would suffer a crime, call the police, the police would respond or not if it was convenient and would make a report of not, again if it was convenient. But start questioning their money and all of a sudden, despite nary a cut in actual money, crime increases? HOW????? It is not logical...but it is entirely logical that they are manipulating the data and are the only entity with access to it. Any bureaucrat will resort to all manner of ill behavior when their money is questioned and the police are nothing if not bureaucrats.
Posted on 1/11/23 at 11:36 am to AwgustaDawg
quote:
would it not be beneficial for every one involved to shift from a focus on arrests to a focus on crime prevention???
Sure, but it will never happen, wanna know WHY?
Because the Democrats NEED these problems.
You see, if we stopped PAYING PEOPLE TO HAVE BABIES OUT OF WEDLOCK, crime would decrease dramatically.
Do YOU wanna go Public and suggest we do that?
Nope, ESPECIALLY if you're a Politician.
Posted on 1/11/23 at 11:44 am to jimmy the leg
quote:
Because funding does not solve the issue.
Police are retiring at an unprecedented rate due to the vilification of the profession. The new hires (such as they are...limited in number) are not enough to offset the numbers retiring (early in many instances).
In areas where the police have been defunded, the situation is much more pronounced.
Let me put it to you this way:
Teachers are blamed for shitty parenting.
They are leaving the profession in droves.
Compensation packages are put forth.
There isn’t enough new teachers to replace the ones that are bailing.
The teacher shortage has become exacerbated by people attacking the profession.
It is worse in areas that aren’t properly funded (or areas that have been defunded).
Did that analogy help?
The difference between the teachers/cop analogy is that the cops are being defended for their poor performance by the same people who are not blaming the parents for their poor performance. Education ills lie at the feet of the teacher unions, LE ills lie at the feet of the 'defund the police" movement. The fact is that the police do far more to villify their profession themselves than anything anyone who is not a cop could do. Right off the bat the main tape meaasure used to determine the effectiveness of their performance is arrests which means a crime was committed and a victim suffered a crime. That would be like grading teachers on the number of kids who drop out and giving them higher marks for more drop outs than graduates.
Thank goodness cops are retiring. Maybe we will come to our senses in this country and focus on preventing crime over punishing crime and all of us will be much better served. And thank goodness cops are finally actually telling the public how bad crime is....because Americans will find a solution and punishing criminals ain't it....preventing crimes is. That doesn't take more cops that takes more cops being present and most of them do not need to be armed or particularly well trained and many of them could be a camera.
Posted on 1/11/23 at 11:46 am to AwgustaDawg
quote:
Thank goodness cops are retiring. Maybe we will come to our senses in this country and focus on preventing crime over punishing crime
Utopians are such retards.
You'll always have crime. The current situation in many urban areas, your utopianism creates the crime.
Posted on 1/11/23 at 11:46 am to AwgustaDawg
quote:
Serious question...is anyone certain that crime has indeed increased or has the reporting of crime by the people whose funding is being questioned, the only people capable of reporting crime, increased?
In most urban areas crime is being massively underreported 
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