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re: Pornography is not conservative
Posted on 7/19/21 at 11:31 am to FooManChoo
Posted on 7/19/21 at 11:31 am to FooManChoo
quote:
You've convinced me. I'm going to abandon my convictions and principles for the sake of gaining and maintaining power in this country.
The idea of having the government make every decision for people isn’t small government conservatism. If you want expansive government control you are just a different big government supporter than the left.
1
Posted on 7/19/21 at 11:32 am to Indefatigable
quote:
There has always been a difference between Conservatism in a political context, and social conservative principles. There is a ton of material written about it in connection with the 18th century revolutions on Europe. In that context, you'll see the comparison as "big C" vs. "little c" conservatism.
I get it if you think they are indistinct in modern practice or don't care about the nuance (I would disagree and point to Donald Trump's election as proof of that), but they simply are separate things.
Your refusal to accept that there are in fact a group of people who identify as Conservative and yet do not identify as "conservative" on social issues such as drugs, abortion, etc. doesn't mean that those groups don't exist. In fact, I would argue that educate white people in suburbia are exactly those type of people.
I would argue it's never really existed in America, or alternatively, the circumstances eliminated the need for its existence because it wasn't an issue and people self-regulated in a moral/religious manner.
Your last paragraph about the groups is pretty strawman. I don't deny that there are people who identify as conservative but don't adopt religious/moral components. Those people, however, have generally "gone along" with those components because they are an inherent part of the conservative movement. If you want to separate them now, ok, perhaps there is a large enough secular/amoral contingent to do so. But I dispute that there have always been two strains of conservatism, and I don't really think there is any evidence of it.
Posted on 7/19/21 at 11:33 am to anc
I fully agree that porn destroys love and families, however it has nothing to do with whether or not a person is constitutionally conservative. There is a difference between being Conservative, and being Right Wing.
Posted on 7/19/21 at 11:34 am to Swamp Angel
quote:
Right Wing.
oh hell
now we get to spend 10 pages debating another definition
Posted on 7/19/21 at 11:34 am to Pettifogger
quote:
Regardless, I would concede the point if the point is "the distinction is new"
It's not even new. It's specific to Trump and Trumpism, b/c he muddled the definition of all things "conservative" and the political compasses of those who supported him.
Posted on 7/19/21 at 11:35 am to Man With A Plan
quote:
Anyone that looks lustfully at a female commits adultery, doesn't matter if you're doing the act physically or spiritually, there is no difference it is a sin and wrong. Porn is definitely wrong, viewing it is committing Adultery and fornication. No Christian should have anything to do with the works of the flesh. Sexual sin is not a joke, and should never be normalized.
This place is a joke. Some of you people need help getting out of this cult.
Posted on 7/19/21 at 11:35 am to Pettifogger
quote:
now we get to spend 10 pages debating another definition
progressives aren't the only ones who redefine words to support power positions
Posted on 7/19/21 at 11:36 am to cssamerican
quote:Don't knock down men of straw and then look for praise.
The idea of having the government make every decision for people isn’t small government conservatism. If you want expansive government control you are just a different big government supporter than the left.
Not even I--who am an open advocate for the government to recognize Christ's rule--believe that the government should be making every decision for people. However, being in favor of suppression of immoral acts or lifestyles that will wind up destroying the country in the long-term doesn't mean I'm for "big government". You can't even define what "big" and "small" actually means in that context and where the dividing line is.
Posted on 7/19/21 at 11:36 am to kingbob
quote:
Porn isn’t inherently conservative, but freedom of speech and freedom of expression should be. The free market should be. The issues with porn are typically in two contexts: puritanical views on sex and masterbation and issues of consent regarding the people involved in making pornography.
In my personal opinion, porn, like any other form of performance or entertainment should be consumed at the discretion of its audience and performed by consenting adults. I would rather “adult” art forms be a little harder to come across accidentally, especially in public places where children are typically present, but other than that, it should be permitted.
Now, permitting something isn’t the same as celebrating it. People should still have the right to judge pornography, its users, and those involved in making it negatively, but I feel it is foolish to exclude people from your political party solely due to their involvement in porn. It’s one thing if you’re vetting candidates for office to endorse, but banning them from participating in a conference is just dumb.
And with that in mind, is anyone denying that this pornographer has no right to oppose her inclusion at this event? If so, they are wrong. Yet by the same token, Turning Point certainly has every every right to decide who attends it’s conferences.
Posted on 7/19/21 at 11:37 am to Pettifogger
quote:
Those people, however, have generally "gone along" with those components because they are an inherent part of the conservative movement.
I would argue that they "went" along with it because of the two party system, not because the two causes are inherently linked. If we had a parliamentary or multi-party system, the two would be unlikely to call the same party home
quote:
If you want to separate them now, ok, perhaps there is a large enough secular/amoral contingent to do so. But I dispute that there have always been two strains of conservatism, and I don't really think there is any evidence of it.
Then we'll just agree to disagree on whether it has always existed. However, I do not see any way to deny that there is a clear distinction in the two in a modern context, and that the GOP is stupid to ignore it by focusing only on its social conservative base. The social conservatives are going to pull the R lever either way. The other category will not.
Posted on 7/19/21 at 11:37 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
his depravity was ignored up to celebrated. the same should be done for Brandi Love
Dude you’re overstating his “depravity”. It’s been alleged, and I think he has, that Trump has had extramarital affairs. This is a sin but not a crime, and it only affects Trump, the woman, and his family. It doesn’t affect the public at all. Now the DNC/MSM Political Complex public butt hurt is responsible for putting references to the sin into the public consciousness.
Merriam-Webster
Definition of depravity
1 : a corrupt act or practice
2 : the quality or state of being corrupt, evil, or perverted : the quality or state of being depraved
So let’s see: primary definition is a corrupt act. Trump’ Infidelity? Nope. Biden’s acceptance of bribes and bribing foreign governments to cover it up with American’s tax dollars? Oh yes! Major corruption and therefore an act of depravity!
Next, the secondary introduces evil and perverted. Heterosexual activities between consenting adults is not perverted. Still no depravity here with corruption and perversion. Now for evil. Trump sinned, and all sin is evil, but is it depraved? No. Because all humanity including you and me are sinners. Therefore all humanity would be depraved. But, I wouldn’t single you out as depraved for sinning because that greatly cheapens the definition of depravity!
Now if you MUST overstate Trump’s shortcoming as depravity, please publicly condemn yourself as depraved as well.
Now for Brandi, “you're a fine girl (You're a fine girl) What a good wife you would be”. Sorry for that Looking Glass flash back! Couldn’t help it.
Now having sex for money, and publicly distributing it is not legally corrupt. But it is an evil/sin and it is WAY out of the norm and perverted. Therefore she is depraved.
Equating the two is boarder line sinful depending upon your intent. I’m going to give you the benefit of the doubt, and chalk it up to simple and common ignorance.
Posted on 7/19/21 at 11:37 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
It's not even new. It's specific to Trump and Trumpism, b/c he muddled the definition of all things "conservative" and the political compasses of those who supported him.
Yeah but I'm just not sure people twisting their moral bearing to match Trump is the same as the distinction others are trying to make here.
Posted on 7/19/21 at 11:38 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
It's not even new. It's specific to Trump and Trumpism, b/c he muddled the definition of all things "conservative" and the political compasses of those who supported him.
I would argue Ron Paul was the one who began separating religious conservatives principles from constitutional conservatives principles. Trump was the one who just said enough to the religious conservatives to get enough support to win, but he didn’t run or win on moral issues.
Posted on 7/19/21 at 11:38 am to MeatCleaverWeaver
quote:
Pornography is not conservative
No I didn’t miss the point of the post. I didn’t comment about the main issue of the post. Go back and look at who I was responding to when I made that post and what their original comment was that I responded to
Sorry, I didn't mean you missed the point. You were spot on. I was referring to the poster who commented on your post.
Posted on 7/19/21 at 11:39 am to Indefatigable
quote:
Then we'll just agree to disagree on whether it has always existed. However, I do not see any way to deny that there is a clear distinction in the two in a modern context, and that the GOP is stupid to ignore it by focusing only on its social conservative base. The social conservatives are going to pull the R lever either way. The other category will not.
I'm ok with this I just think it's such a huge component of American conservatism that it's a departure from the definition and deserving of a completely different label.
Posted on 7/19/21 at 11:41 am to cssamerican
quote:
. Trump was the one who just said enough to the religious conservatives to get enough support to win, but he didn’t run or win on moral issues.
Because, for some reason I still haven't figured out yet, he's the one conservative politician they didn't make pander to them in a fully committed way.
Posted on 7/19/21 at 11:43 am to CarRamrod
quote:
Pornography destroys families
That's a little strong, but I know it definitely sent me down a wrong path on sex for some years there.
I'm definitely not for removal of it or anything.
Posted on 7/19/21 at 11:44 am to anc
Within the political discussion, I care very little about one's profession or Hobbies.
What's your political and policy standpoint? That's what matters
What's your political and policy standpoint? That's what matters
Posted on 7/19/21 at 11:44 am to anc
quote:
Pornography destroys families just as much as welfare does. Conservatives should be against it.
Have you taken a look around you? We aren’t exactly living in a Puritan utopia and that goes for both sides of the aisle.
Posted on 7/19/21 at 11:45 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Trump won because people like you realized morality wasn't a major issue of conservatism.
Wrong. Trump won because people like me recognize there are only a couple of non-negotiables the government should have a say in on morality. Namely, life (abortion) and biological sex - i.e. no gay indoctrination. Most religious conservatives aren't out trying to "convert" gays to straight. We will set an example of how to try to live a moral life but at the end fo the day there has been two humans without sin - Jesus and His mother.
Acting like a porn star is some sort of conservative icon or should be because Trump wasn't morally pure is complete BS.
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