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re: Seems one party roundly supports mail in voting and one party opposes
Posted on 4/23/20 at 2:22 pm to Korkstand
Posted on 4/23/20 at 2:22 pm to Korkstand
quote:I think all of this is true.
I think it's obvious that higher turnout favors dems, and VbM could significantly increase turnout. There is no need or reason to assume that the goal is fraud.
At the same time, I DO NOT want stupid, uninformed or uninvolved people voting. As such, I am not violently opposed to putting roadblocks in front of measures that would encourage them to do so.
quote:Here is where I part ways with the GOP extremists’ position. We should do whatever is reasonable to prevent voter fraud. If it were pervasive, major steps would be justified. But the data just do not support the notion that voter fraud is anything other than an anomaly.
I think it obvious that we should do whatever possible to eliminate voter fraud.
Steps that would be “reasonable” in the face of 50% fraud are simply NOT “reasonable” in the face of 0.5% fraud ... especially if those steps will also work to preclude or discourage legitimate voters in equal or greater numbers.
0
Posted on 4/23/20 at 2:23 pm to AggieHank86
quote:
The Left is more concerned about assuring that every citizen can exercise the franchise, and the Right is more concerned about potential fraud arising from too-lax standards.
I doubt that anyone really debates these truisms.
The only real difference is that each side attributes ill motives to the other, while draping itself in a mantle of righteousness. Further, each tends to overstate the valid, underlying basis for its position and to minimize the valid, underlying concerns of the other side.
5 people so far have downvoted this fair, reasoned take. i'd love to hear any of their grievances with it, and i think we'd all like a chance to learn the specifics of their 5 learning disabilities.
anyone?
Posted on 4/23/20 at 2:28 pm to 56lsu
quote:Meh.
your own president said that.
quote:indeed, bullshite.
they know the more that vote the smaller their chances are. you can b/s all you want.
Posted on 4/23/20 at 2:31 pm to Y.A. Tittle
quote:For many of us, it is absolutely no problem to acquire ID and make it to the polls on election day or vote early. But there is a significant number of people for whom these seemingly simple things are much more difficult. Everything is more difficult if you're poor, or disabled, or whatever. And if people are telling you that you have to do this or that in order to vote, it's easy to feel like you don't belong.
Can you flesh this out for us a bit more? How is that relatively easy to do exactly?
Posted on 4/23/20 at 2:34 pm to roadGator
quote:So here you have proven my point that it's very easy to read nefarious intent into the right's opposition to VbM. Not only do they not want me to be able to vote from home, but they don't even want someone helping me get to the polls!
Why would I have a problem with dems busing people to the polls?
Is busing an inducement in a way or not?
Does the bus have an operative instructing people about how to vote?
Yeah. I have some issues with bussing.
Posted on 4/23/20 at 2:34 pm to Korkstand
quote:Life is so very hard, it's harder when you have to follow a few rules.
Everything is more difficult if you're poor, or disabled, or whatever. And if people are telling you that you have to do this or that in order to vote, it's easy to feel like you don't belong.
Posted on 4/23/20 at 2:36 pm to Y.A. Tittle
Democrats will get 400 million votes if mail in is allowed. 
Posted on 4/23/20 at 2:37 pm to Jbird
quote:Life is even harder when the ones who make the rules are making rules that make it harder for you to have a say in who makes the rules.
Life is so very hard, it's harder when you have to follow a few rules.
Posted on 4/23/20 at 2:37 pm to Y.A. Tittle
quote:
Seems one party roundly supports mail in voting and one party opposes. Is there a philosophically innocuous reason for this dichotomy?
The parties' interests diverge with regard to making it more generally easy for Americans to vote. It's simple, but I wouldn't call it innocuous.
Posted on 4/23/20 at 2:38 pm to Korkstand
I didn’t say I don’t want people to get assistance to the polls. I don’t want you busing people and telling them how to vote on the way while having just provided drinks and food.
That’s not good, right? I don’t think that’s good. Hopefully you agree.
Side question: do you think it will be good for the country if the demographics change enough that the republicans can never win another national election?
That’s not good, right? I don’t think that’s good. Hopefully you agree.
Side question: do you think it will be good for the country if the demographics change enough that the republicans can never win another national election?
This post was edited on 4/23/20 at 2:43 pm
Posted on 4/23/20 at 2:39 pm to Y.A. Tittle
I keep seeing voter ID come up. Where can you vote without an ID? That's not a rhetorical question, I'm actually curious. Texas requires something.
This post was edited on 4/23/20 at 2:40 pm
Posted on 4/23/20 at 2:40 pm to TejasHorn
Voting by mail won’t require an ID will it?
Posted on 4/23/20 at 2:41 pm to Korkstand
quote:What harder rules are you referring too?
Life is even harder when the ones who make the rules are making rules that make it harder for you to have a say in who makes the rules.
Posted on 4/23/20 at 2:49 pm to roadGator
quote:I didn't say you did. I said that your stated views make it easy to read nefarious intent into those views.
I didn’t say I don’t want people to get assistance to the polls.
quote:Is it worse than any other method of swaying votes? Honest question.
I don’t want you busing people and telling them how to vote on the way while having just provide drinks and food.
That’s not good, right?
Posted on 4/23/20 at 2:52 pm to roadGator
quote:Do you think the party as a whole is dumb enough to never shift a little more moderate in order to win again?
Side question: do you think it will be good for the country if the demographics change enough that the republicans can never win another national election?
Posted on 4/23/20 at 2:52 pm to Korkstand
quote:
Is it worse than any other method of swaying votes? Honest question.
Honest answer.
Posted on 4/23/20 at 2:53 pm to Korkstand
Yes. I’d call that buying votes.
When I worked for a Medicaid hmo all the reps would go door to door signing up people.
People would sign based on the inducement.
Water bottles were the beginning and the inducement went up from there.
Now they can’t give Medicaid folks such inducements. Why?
Because it’s wrong.
A political operative shouldn’t provide inducements in trade for votes.
When I worked for a Medicaid hmo all the reps would go door to door signing up people.
People would sign based on the inducement.
Water bottles were the beginning and the inducement went up from there.
Now they can’t give Medicaid folks such inducements. Why?
Because it’s wrong.
A political operative shouldn’t provide inducements in trade for votes.
Posted on 4/23/20 at 2:56 pm to Korkstand
More moderate? What position needs to be more moderate?
Will the left become more moderate or keep marching harder left?
What’s way over there at the end of that march?
America can’t be a socialist country. If that happens then what was the point of all the sacrifices?
Will the left become more moderate or keep marching harder left?
What’s way over there at the end of that march?
America can’t be a socialist country. If that happens then what was the point of all the sacrifices?
Posted on 4/23/20 at 2:58 pm to Jbird
quote:Ones that make the poor and disabled do things that are difficult for poor and disabled people to do.
What harder rules are you referring too?
And be honest here... if there were not a party pulling in the other direction, do you really think republicans would not keep doing more and more things that shift turnout in their favor?
Conservatives are clearly outnumbered. Higher turnout favors dems. I don't think anyone can really argue this. And that makes it really hard to claim only altruistic motives behind policies that reduce turnout.
Posted on 4/23/20 at 3:01 pm to Korkstand
quote:
I think it's obvious that higher turnout favors dems
Do you?
quote:VbM would significantly lower turnout. It could up vote count.
VbM could significantly increase turnout
quote:Yet that is what we saw in California and NC with vote "harvesting". The case was prosecuted in NC.
There is no need or reason to assume that the goal is fraud.
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