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re: Single payer in America would cost almost as much as current ENTIRE federal budget
Posted on 7/29/18 at 8:18 pm to BBONDS25
Posted on 7/29/18 at 8:18 pm to BBONDS25
quote:
those of us whose premiums have stayed the same
non existent. What a wierd thing to lie about.
It is one of the problems. Most people do not know the real cost of the health insurance because somebody else pays it.
1
Posted on 7/29/18 at 8:20 pm to I B Freeman
quote:
It is one of the problems. Most people do not know the real cost of the health insurance because somebody else pays it.
The govt creates a problem and the solution is more government?
Posted on 7/29/18 at 8:22 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
quote:
A single payer system would be paid through taxes that are NOT based on amount of care consumed. Instead, it would be based on income.
A sizeable chunk of premiums paid now are based on the care that others get and either pay nothing or pay something less than the actual costs. If this weren’t so there would be almost no bad medical debt and no medical collections industry in the US.
Like it or not those who are responsible for their own health care costs are going to pay for those who aren’t in any system other than one where you pay in full before you receive any care at all. Providers aren’t going to go broke...they are going to collect the difference from paying customers...just like any other business passes the cost of theft to paying customers. We can pretend the uninsured and underinsured ain’t costing the rest of us dearly but it is a fantasy.
Posted on 7/29/18 at 8:22 pm to BBONDS25
quote:
The govt creates a problem and the solution is more government?
I'd be surprised if IB is advocating for single payer.
Posted on 7/29/18 at 8:27 pm to RockyMtnTigerWDE
quote:
Single payer in America would cost almost as much as current ENTIRE federal budget
The government has shown us what single payer healthcare will look like with how they run the VA.
It could also look like tri-care....most folks I know covered by tri-care are pretty satisfied.
Again...as long as we have large numbers of people uninsured and underinsured those of us with adequate insurance are going to pay dearly.
Posted on 7/29/18 at 8:30 pm to BBONDS25
I posted a sensible solution further up in the thread that would make shoppers of us all and get the government out of the healthcare pricing business.
Posted on 7/29/18 at 8:38 pm to I B Freeman
Think of the system I propose as this.
We would take all we spend on medicare now and pay it out as vouchers to those eligible for medicare. Let's just say it is $1000 per month.
Then instead of direct payments for services for healthcare providers would create subscription plans and compete with each other to get some part of the $1000.
Ochsner and LOL, for example, would have competing plans. They could have more than one plan. One might decide to subscribe to a Ochsner plan that is $800 per month. They would have every incentive to keep the subscriber healthy so they could keep getting the $800 and the subscriber would pocket the $200.
We would take all we spend on medicare now and pay it out as vouchers to those eligible for medicare. Let's just say it is $1000 per month.
Then instead of direct payments for services for healthcare providers would create subscription plans and compete with each other to get some part of the $1000.
Ochsner and LOL, for example, would have competing plans. They could have more than one plan. One might decide to subscribe to a Ochsner plan that is $800 per month. They would have every incentive to keep the subscriber healthy so they could keep getting the $800 and the subscriber would pocket the $200.
This post was edited on 7/29/18 at 8:39 pm
Posted on 7/29/18 at 8:44 pm to Powerman
quote:
We currently spend more per capita than any other country in the world
So if we adopted another country's system verbatim it wouldn't be likely to cost anymore than it does now
If we quit providing stability to the entire globe without asking for any help footing the bill those systems would collapse in a few months. Every dime that we spend on making certain Asia and Europe aint at war frees up thousands of dollars for those nations to do all sorts of shite to promote domestic stability.
I had German health insurance once upon a time. It was FAR better and more affordable than anything I’ve ever had in the US and I’ve been fortunate to always have great health insurance in the US. How is this possible? Because US Taxpayers subsidize German health care costs by providing Germany with free security at home AND secure markets for German goods and services abroad.
Why do we do this? For two reasons....military contractors wield a lot of power AND capital loves the idea of cheap labor, less regulation and lower taxes where their investments risk is mitigated by US Military spending. If that investment was exposed to the risk that would be present if we only provided for about half of the world’s stability and safe markets no one in their right mind would invest anywhere other than the US. No one would invest in China in the absence of US global Influence such as it is today.....and that influence is paid for in its entirety by your tax dollars.
Posted on 7/29/18 at 8:45 pm to I B Freeman
Anyone that wants to be serious about healthcare reform needs to acklowdege that there needs to be a change in the mindset regarding healthcare.
There is no reason why health insurance should pay for routine MD office visits. None. My car insurance does not pay for new tires or oil changes.
My daughter was due for an immunization last week for the next school year. The desk girls had to put it in as an office visit so I had to put down a $35 co pay and my insurance probably paid $100 for an LPN making $14/hr to spend 3 minutes drawing up a shot and giving it (Which I could do)
I’d much rather pay out of pocket for incidentals than me and my company paying through the nose for premiums.
There is no reason why health insurance should pay for routine MD office visits. None. My car insurance does not pay for new tires or oil changes.
My daughter was due for an immunization last week for the next school year. The desk girls had to put it in as an office visit so I had to put down a $35 co pay and my insurance probably paid $100 for an LPN making $14/hr to spend 3 minutes drawing up a shot and giving it (Which I could do)
I’d much rather pay out of pocket for incidentals than me and my company paying through the nose for premiums.
This post was edited on 7/29/18 at 8:48 pm
Posted on 7/29/18 at 8:49 pm to BBONDS25
quote:
non existent. What a wierd thing to lie about.
My families premiums haven’t increased in 4 years and our copays and deductibles are exactly what they were 4 years ago. According to our insurance company they have 106 million customers in the US.....many different plans of course and I can only speak for ours but we aren’t the only family with that plan.
There are many people in this country who have seen their premiums stabilize after the ACA.....if yours didn’t it’s because you were underinsured and those of us who haven’t seen big cost increases were subsidizing you. You are welcome.
Posted on 7/29/18 at 8:51 pm to 4cubbies
quote:
Americans spent $3.3 trillion on healthcare in 2017, so looks like single payer would be cheaper than the current system.
There's no bargaining...once it goes single payer one of two things happen...
The cost usually doubles within a year or so...so to 6.6T
Or government will fix costs which drives out competent healthcare in exchange for shite.
So...meh...we can just print more like the last guy did to cover it...
And the dollar drops and growth is stifled, making the poor, poorer...
Honestly, competition is the only way to keep costs...competitive
Posted on 7/29/18 at 9:40 pm to Powerman
quote:
currently spend more per capita than any other country in the world
We have more to spend. We also subsidize drugs and treatments for the rest of the world.
quote:
So if we adopted another country's system verbatim it wouldn't be likely to cost anymore than it does now
When has the government ever done anything cheaper??? I can’t believe this notion is even being entertained. When you want audacious projects where cost is no object , bring in Fedgov...But it won’t be cheaper.
Posted on 7/29/18 at 10:14 pm to 4cubbies
quote:What percentage of Americans pay taxes?
How much do Americans currently spend on health insurance premiums?
Posted on 7/29/18 at 10:24 pm to Sunbeam
quote:There is no “answer”. No “system” will give everyone as much care as they can demand without limits at a price that’s cheap.
Taking the OP at face balue as to the possibility of single payer, what is the answer?
quote:Indeed. As long as “free” care is given out, and only thise that pay are given the burden—we have an unsustainable situation. Have a look at our tax code. It looks just like that. Putting healthcare into he government makes that situation worse, not better.
The current situation is not tenable in the long term.
So unless you’re willing to saddle every person with an income ata tax rate of ~65%... the “rich” will run out.
quote:Nope. You’re going to have to cure the greed of people that believe they deserve an infinite amount of superior leve care, but aren’t willing to pay for it. Good luck. I see no end in site.
I don't have the answer. But I do know if you want to fix this system, you are going to have to go to war with the insurance companies.
This post was edited on 7/29/18 at 10:25 pm
Posted on 7/29/18 at 10:26 pm to Sidicous
quote:Ill do your next surgery for $50.
Dr.'s expect to be elite income.
Posted on 7/29/18 at 10:29 pm to Antonio Moss
quote:Lets complete the thought.
Private contract versus Public bureaucracy with $20 trillion in debt and run by a group dysfunctional idiots.
Posted on 7/29/18 at 10:32 pm to BBONDS25
quote:There are a few paying the same premium. But their deductible has risen to $10,000/ya and they now have a 5 doc hmo network.
non existent. What a wierd thing to lie about.
Posted on 7/29/18 at 10:32 pm to germandawg
quote:
It could also look like tri-care....most folks I know covered by tri-care are pretty satisfied.
Posted on 7/29/18 at 10:42 pm to germandawg
quote:
If your premiums have gone up post ACA it’s because you were under insured
That is the biggest falsehood in this entire thread. My premiums went up and I can assure you I was far from “under insured”
Posted on 7/29/18 at 10:49 pm to germandawg
quote:
My families premiums haven’t increased in 4 years and our copays and deductibles are exactly what they were 4 years ago
Liar. Your entire post is bullshite. And you aren't subsidizing me. I pay cash for concierge service
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